2.4 puma or td5

[1988smithy]

Seriously considering changing my disco td5 for a 110. Either double cab or station wagon.

Reckon I've got a budget of £10k max, I've seen a 2.4tdci double cab at craddock for 10k that I might go and look at on Monday, or 7-10k seems to be ball park for a decent td5.

Looked at a 1993 tdi today, it was nice and straight but 196k on the clock, front doors were rotten and footwells were starting to scab up. Also n/s swivel/hub was leaking bad and engine was covered in oil. 2012 mot failed on chassis corrosion but im sure it looked like a galv one its on now. Bloke wants near as bugger it 8k.

Now I know the td5 having owned this disco for a couple of years so would feel more confident owning a defender powered one but I've read good things about the puma grunt and interiors being much nicer. But more complicated electronics I gather.

So any opinions guys/gals? Anyone got real world experience of the puma defender or maybe have owned td5 and puma?
Search on here doesn't bring an awful lot up about tdci

 

[bankz5152]

Td5! Youve seen mine

 

[1988smithy]

Td5! Youve seen mine

If I said yours wasn't a slight source of inspiration I'd be lying mate

 

[bankz5152]

Haha cheers

in all honesty if its a through and through daily then a TDCi if not then TD5.

Or spend a little time and money and do up the TD5 innards

 

[1988smithy]

Haha cheers

in all honesty if its a through and through daily then a TDCi if not then TD5.

Or spend a little time and money and do up the TD5 innards

Tbh I'd be more than happy with a td5 with just a remap as a daily, I use the disco daily and it's fine. I just need more insight into puma ownership cuz I'd be doing most repairs myself. Which makes me lean towards td5 cuz I've got experience with that unit, aaaaarrrgh!

 

[bankz5152]

Yeah thats a good point. TD5s are generally quite easy to repair and maintain, not so sure about the Pumas!

First things id do would be
Clutch spring mod
Slickshift
Remap + wind the boost up a touch
Discreet EGR blank (i.e so it looks like there)

That isnt a huge sum of money and would make the day to day much easier.

 

[1988smithy]

Clutch spring

What's this for, heavier clutch than disco?

I've got a discreet EGR delete on disco at mot time, 3 bottles of cider on the back seat

 

[bankz5152]

Nice hahaha

Unsure if its the same as the disco but the std clutch spring is damn weighty! New one is around £22.50 and much much lighter

 

[Thor1950]

Seriously considering changing my disco td5 for a 110. Either double cab or station wagon.

Reckon I've got a budget of £10k max, I've seen a 2.4tdci double cab at craddock for 10k that I might go and look at on Monday, or 7-10k seems to be ball park for a decent td5.

Looked at a 1993 tdi today, it was nice and straight but 196k on the clock, front doors were rotten and footwells were starting to scab up. Also n/s swivel/hub was leaking bad and engine was covered in oil. 2012 mot failed on chassis corrosion but im sure it looked like a galv one its on now. Bloke wants near as bugger it 8k.

Now I know the td5 having owned this disco for a couple of years so would feel more confident owning a defender powered one but I've read good things about the puma grunt and interiors being much nicer. But more complicated electronics I gather.

So any opinions guys/gals? Anyone got real world experience of the puma defender or maybe have owned td5 and puma?
Search on here doesn't bring an awful lot up about tdci

See if it had the clutch redone as that was a LR recall. and check the transmission output shaft as that is a problem area. Repair kit made by Ashcroft is like 295 quid for parts. Ashcroft in there site explains the problem/issue which shows up at about 60k miles

 

[1988smithy]

See if it had the clutch redone as that was a LR recall. and check the transmission output shaft as that is a problem area. Repair kit made by Ashcroft is like 295 quid for parts. Ashcroft in there site explains the problem/issue which shows up at about 60k miles

Cheers mate I'll have a look on their site now

 

[Wimblowdriver]

Ashcroft in there site explains the problem/issue which shows up at about 60k miles

I've always been suspicious about the circumstances of this failure. There is word on the street that a batch of pumas left the factory with insufficient oil in their gearboxes. As they have a filled for life (130k miles) box and checking the oil level is not a service scheduled item (unless there is evidence of leaks), those boxes would fail. But I guess mud sticks . I can't imagine that the electronics on a puma are any more complex than a TD5. Transmission-wise they are the same as any other defender - same axles, diffs, transfer box, props etc, but a 6 speed cog box. And a transit engine. So it really comes down to whether you want a transit engine or a TD5 engine, the rest is much the same.

 

[1988smithy]

So it really comes down to whether you want a transit engine or a TD5 engine, the rest is much the same.

I think I've convinced myself I still want a td5. I'm still going to see the puma at craddocks on Monday. But for ease of maintenance and resources available I think td5 is the way to go for me

 

[bankz5152]

Yessssss do it. Then call José

 

[1988smithy]

Yessssss do it. Then call José

Why do I even want one over my disco?? Less comfortable, maybe slightly worse fuel economy, easier to pinch, it'll probably leak more.... i dont care though i want one, what is it about em?

 

[bankz5152]

There is something, they have this wonderful charm that draws you in. I could have bought anything including a 600bhp 2JZ manual Supra for less than my 110 but hey i love my car and nothing has the same street presence as a Defender.

 

[Thor1950]

I've always been suspicious about the circumstances of this failure. There is word on the street that a batch of pumas left the factory with insufficient oil in their gearboxes. As they have a filled for life (130k miles) box and checking the oil level is not a service scheduled item (unless there is evidence of leaks), those boxes would fail. But I guess mud sticks . I can't imagine that the electronics on a puma are any more complex than a TD5. Transmission-wise they are the same as any other defender - same axles, diffs, transfer box, props etc, but a 6 speed cog box. And a transit engine. So it really comes down to whether you want a transit engine or a TD5 engine, the rest is much the same.

It is/was a design fault from the factory...........
The MT82 6 speed gearbox fitted to the 2.2 and 2.4 TDCi is prone to the spline on the rear output shaft wearing which causes a total loss of drive, this spline 'frets' as it is dry in the same way the earlier LT77 and R380 mainshaft splines wear in the transfer case input gear, same thing, different spline.

The MT82 mainshaft comes out of the gearbox and a female/female coupling shaft (LR030054) is fitted to this with a large bolt.

A male/male coupling shaft (TUD500020) then fits into the LR030054 and the other end goes into the transfer case input gear.

The spline that wears is the one at the rear of LR030054 and the front of TUD500020.

We have devised a method to make this splined interface wet with oil which stops the wear.

We take a new LR030054 and spark erode two small slits in the front face where it fits to a bearing, also remove two teeth from the front spline at 180 degrees to eachother, then spark erode another two small slits on the rear face under the clamping bolt, this now allows oil to 'leak' out of the mainbox to this spline. We also turn a thread on the outside diameter and also make two O ring grooves.

The TUD500020 has a ground diameter that the transfer case input seals runs on, we take a new part and regrind it to run this diameter further up towards the gearbox.

We then make a new part which slides over the TUD500020, this has a seal fitted to the rear which seals on the new ground diameter and has both a diameter to seal on the O rings and a thread to fit it to the LR030054.
A spanner is supplied to fit this part.

That Transit/ford engine is a very dependable engine. With a performance kit they are capable of about 225hp which would be a screamer. They were detuned for LR application

 

[1988smithy]

The MT82 6 speed gearbox fitted to the 2.2 and 2.4 TDCi is prone to the spline on the rear output shaft wearing which causes a total loss of drive, this spline 'frets' as it is dry in the same way the earlier LT77 and R380 mainshaft splines wear in the transfer case input gear, same thing, different spline........

I wouldn't have visited Ashcroft website if I knew you'd put it here for us! Sounds like a well engineered fix

That Transit/ford engine is a very dependable engine. With a performance kit they are capable of about 225hp which would be a screamer. They were detuned for LR application

Reading stuff like this makes me think again @bankz5152

I've read so much on other forums about the tdci being dog sh*t though although there's a number of people singing it's praises

 

[Kev12]

I used to drive both and preferred the tdci and 6 speed but the cabin always felt more cramped. The dash is very nice but seems to take up a load more space

 

[Thor1950]

I wouldn't have visited Ashcroft website if I knew you'd put it here for us! Sounds like a well engineered fix



Reading stuff like this makes me think again @bankz5152

The TD5 is a good engine also. It just has the oil in the loom issue to the ecu. Guess it would be a toss up really. Just consider age of vehicle, condition of the chassis and bulk head, and condition of the door frames/aluminum contact for corrosion. and condition of the interior So a TD5 could be cheaper, but then how much is changing the chassis worth. A newer 2.4 could have lower miles, better condition of chassis and the diver line, axle's and swivels etc comes to a choice of save a few K now or spend a few K down the road.

This is a only you/personnel choice to make.
Just use all the info you can gather, and don't make/or be pressured to buy the first 1 you look at several. It is your money, your choice, you have to live with the decision you make.
Or ask 1 of the more experienced owners here on LZ to have a look at with you. And don't be afraid of being critical of what you are looking at, and figure what any repairs will cost and subtract from the asking price. And make sure all the proper paper work is correct, and verify the VIN, I would even ask the Cops to run it to make sure it isn't/or has been reported stolen.

 

[1988smithy]

The TD5 is a good engine also. It just has the oil in the loom issue to the ecu. Guess it would be a toss up really. Just consider age of vehicle, condition of the chassis and bulk head, and condition of the door frames/aluminum contact for corrosion. and condition of the interior So a TD5 could be cheaper, but then how much is changing the chassis worth. A newer 2.4 could have lower miles, better condition of chassis and the diver line, axle's and swivels etc comes to a choice of save a few K now or spend a few K down the road.

This is a only you/personnel choice to make.
Just use all the info you can gather, and don't make/or be pressured to buy the first 1 you look at several. It is your money, your choice, you have to live with the decision you make.
Or ask 1 of the more experienced owners here on LZ to have a look at with you. And don't be afraid of being critical of what you are looking at, and figure what any repairs will cost and subtract from the asking price. And make sure all the proper paper work is correct, and verify the VIN, I would even ask the Cops to run it to make sure it isn't/or has been reported stolen.

Awesome advice that I fully intend following. I havent even driven a defender yet so it might be a non starter if I don't like how they drive. I plan on looking at 3 or 4 maybe more before I commit and yes the likelihood of future repairs and condition over mileage will be a big factor, cheers!

Edit viewing 3 or 4 might seem lazy but I've been sifting through then checking mot history and asking questions about service history etc if I don't like what I find I won't bother looking. So aim is to whittle down to 3 or 4 and view them all over a weekend and really get a feel for what I'm looking at.