Think my oil pump bolt may have gone...

[Td5 boy]

doing 75 on the M6 Toll yesterday, kids, Mrs and mother in the car all going well and then the oil light flickers. Seconds later the engine starts to slow and stalls dumping us at the side of the road.

Engine wouldn't idle, tried to start but nothing.

After an hour waiting for the AA I tried the engine again (I know I know) and it idled but no power there (dead feeling throttle).

Car recovered to Indy garage who is unlikely to be open today and we are supposed to be going to Orkney in 2 days !!!!!!

Reading lots of talk of the oil pump bolt and suspect that could be my issue (2000 Def Td5 on 100K).

Questions:
1: presumably this all sounds like the bolt does it?
2: Would there be any other symptoms to reliably confirm it?
3: lots of talk elsewhere about bolt = new engine, is that pretty definitive?
4: if it is a 'new engine' what's likely to neee replacing ie head or entire engine including bottom end?

Just want to get my head in the right space before the garage is likely to be open next week for what's likely to be what.
Thanks in advance .

 

[jamesmartin]

doing 75 on the M6 Toll yesterday, kids, Mrs and mother in the car all going well and then the oil light flickers. Seconds later the engine starts to slow and stalls dumping us at the side of the road.

Engine wouldn't idle, tried to start but nothing.

After an hour waiting for the AA I tried the engine again (I know I know) and it idled but no power there (dead feeling throttle).

Car recovered to Indy garage who is unlikely to be open today and we are supposed to be going to Orkney in 2 days !!!!!!

Reading lots of talk of the oil pump bolt and suspect that could be my issue (2000 Def Td5 on 100K).

Questions:
1: presumably this all sounds like the bolt does it?
2: Would there be any other symptoms to reliably confirm it?
3: lots of talk elsewhere about bolt = new engine, is that pretty definitive?
4: if it is a 'new engine' what's likely to neee replacing ie head or entire engine including bottom end?

Just want to get my head in the right space before the garage is likely to be open next week for what's likely to be what.
Thanks in advance .

if its the pump sprocket bolt and it hasnt had any oil pressure damage depends on time engine ran without it ie you switch engine off straight away,generally it means another bottom end and turbo, the head itself shouldnt suffer, the last one i did i bought a new turbo and second hand bottom end for 300 generally its usually a another engine,but see what the garage finds, it might not be

 

[Td5 boy]

Thanks JM - makes my filter plier problems pale into insignificance hey?

I turned it off very quickly on the motorway (well it stopped running itself actually).

It's run for probably 30 seconds since but just stalls. Doesn't sound bad when it was running but I don't suppose you can tell what damage is done?

Drat bugger and drat. Looks like we are going to Orkney in the M3 - i set my heart on going in the Landy

 

[jamesmartin]

Thanks JM - makes my filter plier problems pale into insignificance hey?

I turned it off very quickly on the motorway (well it stopped running itself actually).

It's run for probably 30 seconds since but just stalls. Doesn't sound bad when it was running but I don't suppose you can tell what damage is done?

Drat bugger and drat. Looks like we are going to Orkney in the M3 - i set my heart on going in the Landy

it might a combination of other issues hopefully garage are competent and find actual problems,but if engine stops itself after oil pump bolt becomes loose so no oil pressure its damaged

 

[johnlad]

would it start and idle again if bolt had come loose?

 

[jamesmartin]

would it start and idle again if bolt had come loose?

some do if stopped before total seizure, but are still damaged, though it does need investigation before conclusions are jumped too

 

[Al2O3]

it might a combination of other issues hopefully garage are competent and find actual problems,but if engine stops itself after oil pump bolt becomes loose so no oil pressure its damaged

Is this a common problem with the Td5? Is it a design flaw or a maintenance issue?
I should imagine once you've lost the oil pressure maintaining the oil film between the big end shells and crank, you'll end up with metal to metal friction quite quickly.

 

[johnlad]

id be unbolting the sump to have a look at bolt

 

[Al2O3]

id be unbolting the sump to have a look at bolt

Ahh, are we talking about the large screw that hold the pressure release valve in place?

 

[jamesmartin]

Is this a common problem with the Td5? Is it a design flaw or a maintenance issue?
I should imagine once you've lost the oil pressure maintaining the oil film between the big end shells and crank, you'll end up with metal to metal friction quite quickly.

it was more common, most have had a new encapsulated bolt fitted, it doesnt take long, i had one not so long ago the guy swore he switched it off straight away and insisted just a bolt fitted,it ran a few days and turbo went, i fitted another turbo then bottom end went ,however long it was without oil pressure which wasnt long but probably more than he admitted was enough to damage bearings etc

 

[jamesmartin]

Ahh, are we talking about the large screw that hold the pressure release valve in place?

bolt holds pump sprocket, as bolt becomes loose sprocket stops driving pump

 

[neilly]

Ahh, are we talking about the large screw that hold the pressure release valve in place?

This is what is bring discussed @Al2O3
http://www.discovery2.co.uk/Oil_pump_bolt.html

Cheers

 

[Al2O3]

Cheers, gents. Didn't know that!
Wow, there's a lot of money riding on the integrity of that bolt. How does the 'encapsulated' bolt differ?
Coincidentally, I'm just off out to buy some new oil and a filter for mine.

 

[jamesmartin]

Cheers, gents. Didn't know that!
Wow, there's a lot of money riding on the integrity of that bolt. How does the 'encapsulated' bolt differ?
Coincidentally, I'm just off out to buy some new oil and a filter for mine.

encapsulation is a stiff/solid locking compound it will lock were loctite wouldnt ie its a hard position to get oil free

 

[Al2O3]

encapsulation is a stiff/solid locking compound it will lock were loctite wouldnt ie its a hard position to get oil free

I see. I read through that link neilly posted earlier where the guy did a 'how to' for changing the bolt. I wondered at the time how you would get the threads clean enough for the loctite to stick. That makes sense.

 

[raywin]

[GALLERY=]

doing 75 on the M6 Toll yesterday, kids, Mrs and mother in the car all going well and then the oil light flickers. Seconds later the engine starts to slow and stalls dumping us at the side of the road.

Engine wouldn't idle, tried to start but nothing.

After an hour waiting for the AA I tried the engine again (I know I know) and it idled but no power there (dead feeling throttle).

Car recovered to Indy garage who is unlikely to be open today and we are supposed to be going to Orkney in 2 days !!!!!!

Reading lots of talk of the oil pump bolt and suspect that could be my issue (2000 Def Td5 on 100K).

Questions:
1: presumably this all sounds like the bolt does it?
2: Would there be any other symptoms to reliably confirm it?
3: lots of talk elsewhere about bolt = new engine, is that pretty definitive?
4: if it is a 'new engine' what's likely to neee replacing ie head or entire engine including bottom end?

Just want to get my head in the right space before the garage is likely to be open next week for what's likely to be what.
Thanks in advance .

Just out of curiosity is the td5 engine a 10P serial number or a 15P one?
I get a cold feeling in my stomach when I read about another one of these bolts letting go.
[/GALLERY]

 

[Al2O3]

[GALLERY=]

Just out of curiosity is the td5 engine a 10P serial number or a 15P one?
I get a cold feeling in my stomach when I read about another one of these bolts letting go.

If I had a Td5 I'd be fitting the upgraded bolt PDQ. But, I'd be working out how to get the threads very clean before I put the new, threadlock loaded bolt back in.

 

[Td5 boy]

Ok, sit rep.

Garage was open today so have taken the Landy in and bumped it to the top of the list.

First thoughts were engine oil related so oil drained, new oil in and filters.

Sadly bits of metal found at the bottom of the sump.

Garage owner told me lots and certainly way beyond my mechanical knowledge so I only took in some of it.

Dump off and the pump bolt is in tight. But, with new oil it was knocking. Think he said big end bearings (one of them anyway) and something about needing to regrind the crank, measure and check the shape of some oil way or something and then fit a new Crank with 10 thou' on it if the guideways or whatever needed reshaping.

So, engine a bit fooked and some bits needed.

Not going to Orkney in it clearly

Benefits are a load of new bits on the thing when it comes back so additional longevity to the truck.

At this stage no obvious reason for the loss of oil pressure so they are suspecting the oil pressure release valve......

Annoying.

 

[Al2O3]

Ok, sit rep.

Garage was open today so have taken the Landy in and bumped it to the top of the list.

First thoughts were engine oil related so oil drained, new oil in and filters.

Sadly bits of metal found at the bottom of the sump.

Garage owner told me lots and certainly way beyond my mechanical knowledge so I only took in some of it.

Dump off and the pump bolt is in tight. But, with new oil it was knocking. Think he said big end bearings (one of them anyway) and something about needing to regrind the crank, measure and check the shape of some oil way or something and then fit a new Crank with 10 thou' on it if the guideways or whatever needed reshaping.

So, engine a bit fooked and some bits needed.

Not going to Orkney in it clearly

Benefits are a load of new bits on the thing when it comes back so additional longevity to the truck.

At this stage no obvious reason for the loss of oil pressure so they are suspecting the oil pressure release valve......

Annoying.

That's annoying alright.
That's a hell of a lot of work to have a garage do. Did you get a quote? Or, is your M3 a new one

 

[Td5 boy]

No quote no. Told him to do what it needs to get it right.

I want to make sure there is some preventative maintenance there so any bits that can be sensibly replaced along the way (new oil pump etc) to get it done.

Should make for an interesting 'guess the number' game when I pick it up..!

How bad could it be