Sanana series 3 1978, or not?

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roga

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53
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NL
He guys, I'm looking to sell my 109 en get an 88. There is a Santana for seal in my neighborhood at the moment. It is advertised as a 1978 Series 3 Santana. But i have doubts and would like to here some opinions. Judging by the photos I think it's not an 78 series 3 but an older series 2a. What do you think?

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Well it has the older series 2a blower motor and the older windscreen wipers and the front wings don't have the holes in the sides (for series three and late series 2a) but have the newer headlight positions...

...it is screaming "bitsa" to me.

See if you can find the chassis number on the front left hand dumb iron (I think they are on the driver's side whether they are RHD or LHD - so RHD has it on the RHS)

Check the number on the chassis with the chassis plate inside the cabin.

A bitsa isn't necessarily a problem so long as the RDV are happy with it and you're not going to get trouble every year with the APK. It could be an ex-military vehicle (the chassis number will help you tell for sure) which is why it has a later date for the registration than some of the parts seem to suggest.
 
The flat front valance,the deep side skirts,the door and bonnet hinges and the things Stretch has noted all point it to being an early 2a.
 
Thanks. So it seems my suspicions are valid. I will try and see if the seller will give me the VIN so i can try to find out why he claims it's 1978. May it because of what Stretch said, ex military. If it is indeed a 2a I want it even more!
 
Ah ha - I've found it on Marktplaats - It isn't too far from me

(I'll not post the link to the advert because I don't think people in the UK will believe how much these things cost in Holland!)

Good luck with the purchase - I suspect someone has done something such as put the older bits on a newer chassis or it was registered as a later year because it had a life somewhere else such as in the military. (Oh yeah steering wheel is newer than the heater bits - post 1968 - rear lights look like they were borrowed from a trailer!)
 
X3 on all the feedback. The bulkhead isn't a series 3. Actually if it's a S2a I think it's quite tidy. Strange spare wheel carrier. Is that DIY or Santana?
 
rear lights look like they were borrowed from a trailer!

Nope, definitely Santana lights...

1979-Land-Rover-88-SIII-Santana-Rear.jpg


Might be worth the OP getting onto a Spanish Santana/Landy forum and seeing what they know. I can imagine that Santana 'got whatever they were given' by LR, and so maybe their model transitions were just as patchy as Solihull's. (Using up old bits on supposedly new models).
 
Tail lights are indeed Santana originals. Far as I know the early santanas are similar to the Land Rovers built in Solihull except for the lights, roof and rear door. I asked the seller a bunch of questions, see what he answers. Seems like a nice car though..
 
Oh my giddy aunt! Santana tail lights - probably are stolen from a trailer!

(Learn something every day)
 
Alright, I checked the VIN on http://www.landroverseries.org/land-rover-vins.htm. Seem ok. It says:

Model: Land Rover, Series III
Body type: Basic
Wheel base: 88in
Engine: petrol
Model years: 1972-1979
Destination: Export, left-hand drive (LHD)
Design: Unmodified

Seller says it is all original. I still have no idea why it is a 2a body. If the body is changed sometime during it's lifetime and it's done right I don't really mind. Although I don't think that the case. Why would someone do that? I think I'm going to visit it for a IRL inspection.
 
Well Its not all original no matter what it is, most of the body is early 2a but wings are late 2a. Grill looks to have had original headlight holes blanked out.The oval gear knob says 2a. Condition looks good.Have a good check of the chassis and perhaps take some more pics for us to see.Good luck.
 
Alright, I checked the VIN on http://www.landroverseries.org/land-rover-vins.htm. Seem ok. It says:

Model: Land Rover, Series III
Body type: Basic
Wheel base: 88in
Engine: petrol
Model years: 1972-1979
Destination: Export, left-hand drive (LHD)
Design: Unmodified

Seller says it is all original. I still have no idea why it is a 2a body. If the body is changed sometime during it's lifetime and it's done right I don't really mind. Although I don't think that the case. Why would someone do that? I think I'm going to visit it for a IRL inspection.
This doesn't seem right to me.

You ask "why would someone do that" - here's a possible scenario =>

Series 2a in good condition is involved in a head on crash - chassis is a mess. Someone gets a series 3 chassis that has been removed from the remains of an enthusiastically rolled over vehicle and puts the remaining good bits from the series 2a on this series 3 chassis and hey presto one good working vehicle from two wrecks.

I can well believe that the seller thinks it is "all original" - he or she may not know that there is about a ten year gap between the VIN and most of the parts. However, I think you ought to be paying less for the vehicle because it is quite obviously a bitsa...
 
And I'm going to repeat what I said about trying to find a Santana forum (or other source of actual Santana knowledge).

I don't know much about how the deal worked between LR and Santana, but I think that they were a lot more than just an assembler of what were called CKD kits (car, knocked down) and made a lot of their own parts. My wild guess is that they would have been buying sets of parts rather than kits (a blurry distinction but it changes the arrangement from buying cars to buying bits), and so I don't think LR would have had a VIN for them. If that's right then what you've got isn't a Santana (completely - might be bits of one though). And I could well be completely wrong and Sanatana had a pile of IIA bits to use up before they built a III.

Find a Santana expert.
 
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Ok, I had a good look at it. It also has a series 2 engine in it, number 151xxxxx. So, body and engine are series 2. The way the chassis number is on the chassis raises my eyebrows though. It's a welded plate on the left front of the chassis. There is another part just behind the plate which seems covered up, which is strange because the rest of the chassis is in excellent condition... Hmmmm, I think I'll pass on this one. Or am I seeing ghosts? Thanks for the tips!

By the way, I sold my 109. :)

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Definitly is a Santana for the short rear door, rear tail lights (are universal Hella ones used on trailers as well). It should be from about 1972-74 for the interior and front lighs, can be one of the latest serie II-A which Santana mounted both headlights (the interior as spot lights and ones in the wings) but has a lot of moder parts like the spare wheel carrier (it's from the lates built by Santana from 1982) and steering wheel cover.

That's what happens on Santana like most of English series, beinng used quite a lot in past times and repaired with the pieces that people can find.
 
@Fatrover That is a VERY nice car! If I could find something like that around here it would probably be way to expensive for me.. ;)
 
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