buying a freelander td4 with 70K on clock

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Ah thanks , i actually made it to page 7 on that thread and just decided it was an ongoing row that never ended. should've held out a bit longer for the actual results...
 
Hi all, So all has gone well for 10k until a few weeks ago i got a slight whirring noise when depressing the clutch pedal which got slightly louder in the last week and then last night clutch went to the floor and came back twice ( with top of toe) in the space of ten minutes then went to the floor and stayed there. luckily i have AA cover so was able to get car recovered to town . AA guy said pedal was wet so my question is what do i need to order ? is it just a master cylinder i need or a clutch release bearing or the whole clutch assembly?
my other freelander had the slave and cylinder outside the gearbox but this one looks very different . Is the master and slave a " gearbox out" job?
 
ponythegringo said:
Hi all, So all has gone well for 10k until a few weeks ago i got a slight whirring noise when depressing the clutch pedal which got slightly louder in the last week and then last night clutch went to the floor and came back twice ( with top of toe) in the space of ten minutes then went to the floor and stayed there. luckily i have AA cover so was able to get car recovered to town . AA guy said pedal was wet so my question is what do i need to order ? is it just a master cylinder i need or a clutch release bearing or the whole clutch assembly?
my other freelander had the slave and cylinder outside the gearbox but this one looks very different . Is the master and slave a " gearbox out" job?
Click to expand...

I do believe it's a gearbox out job iirc. Personally I'd order up a clutch kit and changed the lot while the box is out. I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than me will tell you if it's is box out job for definite though.

Atb
 
GrumpyGel said:
If you are buying a F1 with any mileage - I'd budget for a replacement VCU. People on here have thought the VCU appeared OK when driving and reversing on lock, but the VCU was in actual fact toast - so on just a test drive its highly likely you won't pick up on anything. 70K miles is the recommended replacement interval by LR but as stated lots last a lot longer, while other fail much sooner. It the prop/vcu support bearings aren't giving any jip - they should be good - if you do replace them - don't do it with cheap ones - or you will be doing the same job very soon after.

Going by this forum, lots of nigglie problems can creep into the TD4's fuelling system from the lift pump (which may be why @Skinny Mike suggested taking it up to 70). They can occur at any time on any car regardless of maintenance history. Most are not expensive fixes but diagnosing the problems can be difficult.

If you start getting injector problems, which can happen on low milage cars, they get very expensive to replace.
Click to expand...
Hi GG,
I must say, that if no issues on lock with tightening, the VCU is absolutely fine. -
There is NO 'VALID' test you can do on the VCU apart from the tightness on lock test.
For the expert opinion (and not total hype) see the following. -
http://www.bellengineering.co.uk/5.html
;)
Enjoy :)
 
ponythegringo said:
Hi all , just did a vcu test today using a 1.2m bar and a 7.5 kilo weight as i felt the car a tiny bit stiff in full reverse lock . It took about 30 seconds to do a 45 degree turn . I was on the forums looking for a list of results to compare mine to so i can decide on a new vcu or not but couldn't find much. Any thoughts as to what state my vcu might be in .
Also had a hill descent light stay on for a minute the other day followed ( after it went off on it's own ) by a battery light coming on when i put foot on brake pedal. Codes on my icarsoft after this showed C1116 supply voltage too low ( vehicle running)--- C1221 brake pedal switch electrical failure ---- and C1151 CAN gearbox data failure . Will clear the codes today and see if they come back .
I'm guessing it's the bake pedal switch or hill descent switch wires/connections accounting for the first 2 errors . Not sure what the C1151 is all about just yet, any ideas?
Cheers.
Click to expand...
a bar and weights is an utterly meaningless test ! - - test if tightness on lock - the static test with a weight is simply wasting your time. IF you get tightness on lock - especially in reverse (due to the higher gearing) then the VCU is approaching end of life.
For expert advice and not hearsay -
http://www.bellengineering.co.uk/5.html

Again, the people in the know - not the oft' pedalled misleading and incorrect bs.
Give Bell engineering a call to confirm. They WILL tell you the real answer..
YOUR VCU is fine.

Enjoy it :)
 
Nodge68 said:
This the the Bell Engineering VCU. It uses a weighted bar.
It is the best test to use, without industrial equipment.
Click to expand...

Here we go again Nodge :) - it is a static test for a new VCU BY BELL for comparison to ensure QC - it is static - it has no relation to dynamic testing. It does not and cannot test air gap / fluid fill / hump mode onset or even rotation forces apart from a useless 90 degree arc. POINTLESS - as you have been told many times.
Ring them - ask them - and please do not throw your dummy out of the pram again.
It really is simple - if there is tightness on lock the vcu is at the end of life. The OWUT is meaningless if no tightness on lock
:)
And Please !! do not start your BELL conspiracy theories again - :rolleyes: - Jeeeeeeeeez ...
 
Bell use this exact tests to show a customer there old VCU in comparison to a newly reconditioned unit. If the test is not a valid test, Bell wouldn't waste there time doing the test, but they do. So saying Bell don't use this test is incorrect, they do use so, it's valid. If it's good enough for Bell, it's good enough for anyone ;)
 
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There is no need to go over this time and again. If you wish to link to threads where it has been fully discussed before so people can make up their own minds that's fine but there's no need to turn every vcu thread into a Bell vs OWUP.

To do so with an insulting manner either way from the off is extremely unhelpful and not appreciated.
 
Cheez - just do both - one wheel up test and reversing - if in doubt change the flippin' VCU - Joe - the Land Rover test is at one end of the spectrum - 75 revs per minute slippage with one end static - the OWUT is the other end of the spectrum (45 degrees at 8kg in about 10 seconds is about 0.75 rpm slippage.) Driving slowly backwards on full lock (according to my propshaft revcounters) is about 120 rpm/108rpm - a difference of 12rpm therefore much more akin to a OWUT than the Land Rover test - I would say not significantly different - but the OWUT is measurable whereas the reversing test is subjective - So get a life and step down off the soapbox and stop rubbishing other people's attempts to get a grip on the concept of a valid test
Edit - The slippage on a 45 degree 10 second OWUT is 2.14rpm at the prop - I forgot the diff and the pinion ratios - makes that even more similar to the reversing test as regards order of magnitude
Joe_H said:
Here we go again Nodge :) - it is a static test for a new VCU BY BELL for comparison to ensure QC - it is static - it has no relation to dynamic testing. It does not and cannot test air gap / fluid fill / hump mode onset or even rotation forces apart from a useless 90 degree arc. POINTLESS - as you have been told many times.
Ring them - ask them - and please do not throw your dummy out of the pram again.
It really is simple - if there is tightness on lock the vcu is at the end of life. The OWUT is meaningless if no tightness on lock
:)
And Please !! do not start your BELL conspiracy theories again - :rolleyes: - Jeeeeeeeeez ...
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Joe_H said:
a bar and weights is an utterly meaningless test ! - - test if tightness on lock - the static test with a weight is simply wasting your time. IF you get tightness on lock - especially in reverse (due to the higher gearing) then the VCU is approaching end of life.
For expert advice and not hearsay -
http://www.bellengineering.co.uk/5.html

Again, the people in the know - not the oft' pedalled misleading and incorrect bs.
Give Bell engineering a call to confirm. They WILL tell you the real answer..
YOUR VCU is fine.

Enjoy it :)
Click to expand...
I see you have been knocking our OWUT test and results across the forum for a while, and advising in your opinion it shouldn't be used. Instead you want us to reverse round a corner. There's no fair comparison on that either. An auto gearbox on tickover will reverse differently to a manual on tickover with or without slipping the clutch. The auto will keep pushing and won't stall like a manual. Trying to keep the speed the same for reference purposes is near impossible to judge, not to mention the fact that a petrol has different torque output values at slow speeds to a diesel and therefore powers the Freelander differently. Judging if it's a little bit stiff or too stiff? How are you going to put that into words which equates to a physical comparison the reader can use to judge their vcu stiffness? When pushing for the reverse test you need to advise peeps that they're probably activating their vcu anyway so it will feel tight anyway due to the differing speeds of the props when the wheels are on a tight turn. In no way does that test for a stiff vcu, it will be stiff anyway. When quoting snippets from the web you should also quote posts from years ago where Austin tells people to perform the OWUT as it's a good test, on this ere forum.
It never amazes me just how many people will go to such great lengths to try to stop people form performing the OWUT. Annoyed I is. I'm not going to argue about this. Leave peeps to judge for themselves.

edit: quoted wrong post
props
 
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Can't be bothered to read all of this, but, I've spoken to Austen on a few occasions. Could someone explain to me how you can post your vcu to him to bench test it to decide what state it's in? Then rubbish the very same bench testing he offers as a service. I for one am sick of listening to this. It's been done to death.
 
hnegnf.jpg
 
Has another thread spilled over into this one? I just wanted some info on my clutch problem but the vcu test discussion has leaked in somehow.
 
ponythegringo said:
Has another thread spilled over into this one? I just wanted some info on my clutch problem but the vcu test discussion has leaked in somehow.
Click to expand...
It sounds like the clutch hydraulics have failed.
A noise when pressing the clutch would suggest a slave/ release bearing fault. Fluid loss at the pedal would suggest a master cylinder fault.
If the slave has failed, the box must be removed, assuming it's a TD4.
If you are having the box removed to repair the slave, you might as well have a new clutch fitted at the same time.
 
Nodge68 said:
It sounds like the clutch hydraulics have failed.
A noise when pressing the clutch would suggest a slave/ release bearing fault. Fluid loss at the pedal would suggest a master cylinder fault.
If the slave has failed, the box must be removed, assuming it's a TD4.
If you are having the box removed to repair the slave, you might as well have a new clutch fitted at the same time.
Click to expand...


thanks a lot for that , I wanted to buy from paddock spares but they only have britpart clutch for td4 and i was really looking for LUk or some other "better" make .Should i shop for clutch plate and cover plus master and slave plus flywheel , release bearing ? It's a bit confusing doing the rounds on the websites , any particular online crowd that i could purchaase everything at once without getting robbed? What make of clutch is best?
 
Luk clutch is the way to go.
You will need the kit. You can test the DMF with the box off. There's no guarantee that it's reached the end of its working life.
I would change the master at the same time as the concentric tbh. I hate doing jobs twice, so change everything at once.
 
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