Need advice choosing please!

[becstar]

Hello Landyzone forum members. I was hoping that I could get some advice on some questions I still have after having researched buying a Defender 90. Firstly though, let me introduce myself. My name is Becky and I live in Dudley in the West Midlands. I have always wanted a Defender and now I am in the position to buy one with a £7,000 budget (although I could stretch to 10K if I absolutely had to).

I live with my husband, our Rottie, Loki, three chickens and two cats. I don't live in the countryside but we often take dog out on jaunts to random countryside locations and my job means that I need a vehicle that I can chuck loads of stuff in the back of (bales of straw, animal feed, logs, etc) and not worry about scuffing interior fixtures and fittings or the odd scratch on the paintwork. I am rubbish at keeping vehicles clean and tidy and want something I don't have to be prissy about.

On paper, I realise that many of you may be thinking 'just get a disco' and don't get me wrong, the argument for a disco over a Defender when I won't be using it as a daily off-road workhorse makes perfect sense. However... I just love defenders and my heart has taken over!

Firstly, engine type. 200tdi, 300 tdi or td5? Here's my usage:

It would be my only vehicle.
My commute to work is only 5 miles each way, five days a week.
Infrequent motorway drives.
Infrequent towing.
Lots of weekend use to parks, rural locations but nothing I would class as 'off road' particularly.
I am not handy with a spanner and will not be servicing it myself (yet).

So, bearing in mind this kind of usage, what would I be best off with engine-wise?

Secondly, the chassis. Despite my research into chassis condition, I only seem to be able to find advice on how to identify a complete rust bucket that should be avoided or, in contrast, a gleaming example of well looked after steel. Consequently, I wouldn't know how to judge everything in between and therefore, how much more life it has left. Therefore, should I wait for one that has a galvanised chassis (which, if what I have read is accurate, will last for 40 years before starting to show signs of wear)?

Thirdly, despite at the moment me being inexperienced, I would, in fact, like to learn how to maintain and work on my Defender. Are there any clubs I could join who could help 'train me up'! It's hard to learn from scratch via forum only ( although a fantastic starting point and source of an amazing amount of experience and guidance). I would like to meet up with other Defender owners and try to learn via hands-on experience.

Lastly, I have read about people using veg oil to cut fuel costs on 300tdi's. How worth it is this route and has anyone got any further info on this?

In conclusion, I would like to say a huge thank you in advance for any information or guidance anyone is willing to take the time to give me. I very much appreciate it and look forward to your responses and becoming part of the Defender community! ☺��

Oh, I am going to look at these defenders on Tuesday. Any comments?

Land Rovers quality land rover 90 models, Land Rover sales

Thank again. Becky.

 

[blue beasty]

Never had that sort of budget so can't really help other than to say you pay a big premium for dealer prices.

If your spending 7-10 grand it seems silly to skimp a few pennies on fuel for very low mileages.

As for learning mechanics you're about to take the most important step....

 

[XRIZLAX]

2nd one, galv chassis every time.

 

[mick the builder]

Welcome Becky,
A good well looked after chassis can be almost as good as a galv. one. But unless you trust the seller has treated the chassis from new, if a galv one comes along, its a no brainer. The other point to look at is the front bulkhead at the top corners especially. If you do a search on this forum you will find that everything you need to know has already been asked so if no one has a "live" answer for you, do a search. Some come up for sale on here from time to time so you would expect it to be well looked after but whatever you do try and take some one who knows about landies with you.
Good luck

 

[tacr2man]

If you go to any sort of landrover "Dealer" you will pay thru the nose, they are just about as close to a licence to print money as you can get .
The best bang for the buck is buy a well cared for private example, go lower than your budget to cover a bit of tlc when you get it .
DONT go and look at one without someone who knows all about them
or you will likely get burned. If you put your location you might be able to enlist someones help .

 

[trax]

good news is 7k is more than ample.

for your mileage don't bother with veg.

unless you want it to become a money pit, you need to be willing to do diy.

prices seem a bit nuts atm, but i'd want a *good* one, low milage, decent paintwork and interior and galv chassis with minimal rust for 4.5k.

personally, i'd go with 300 or 200.

other route is a shed for 500-1k and rebuild onto a galv chassis (about 2.5-3k all in)


but y'know for such limited mileage I'd be getting myself a nice lil series 2a

ps, all the money you save can go towards building a garage and all the tools you'll need

 

[IamRobbie]

Hi Becky,

If i were you I would go for a td5 for the simple things like the heater gets up to temp nicely and the power is there if you want to use it.

Dash is a lot more modern ect..

I wouldnt bother with the veg oil as from personal experience of running it in a disco I had it didnt seem to be any cheaper overall..


Although you get more for your money with an older TDI model if it were between 200 and 300tdi I would say the 300 tdi is easier to work on (simple things like swapping the auxiliary belt is self tensioning on the 300tdi.

Whatever you go for try to find on that has a decent bulkhead. I messed up when i brought mine as i knew nothing about them and it had been filled everywhere then painted over..

I was since advised to take a magnet with you when viewing one and check the usual bad spots on the bulkhead with the magnet to make sure its not filler ect.

Goodlook with what you choose!

 

[Foxyred]

Hi Becky
My defender in avatar is a 200 engine,with 102000 on the clock. i'm getting 33 mpg, although you might get less on short runs but should be 30 mpg.

Ps look at a lot before you buy one ! Go and look at a cheap one you don't want and you will see the areas that rot !! I would avoid anything with snorkel/spotlights and winches as for what you want is as standard as you can find

look in this order:-

Bulkhead
Chassis
Engine
Gearbox
Body
Doors
Cross member

You will likely be replacing
Ball swivels
brakes/pipes
shocks
Door locks

And Buy a wheel lock and safeTpedel

 

[FMog]

Hi Becky, welcome to the forum

I'm new here too!
http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f20/mog-daisy-have-arrived-d-pictures-284057.html

Firstly, let me apologise for this very long post which you are about to adventure into.

And don't worry, you're in the Defender section, nobody will try converting you to a Disco, anyone who does will get a swift kick up the a***

I've recently picked up my first Defender after around a year of researching, studying up, getting advice from various people.

I ended up getting a 1991 200tdi Defender 90 with great bodywork, great engine, galvanised chassis, no rust on the body at all (except a tiny bit under the doors, which is to be expected), clean and original interior (roof lining comes up great with a little vanish stain remover spray/foam ) with 2 folding seats in the back (two have been removed for space, no rust in the footwells, upgraded sound system with aux input, steering guard, diff guards, rock/tree sliders, tow pack with electrics, snorkel, breathing/wading kits installed for axles and gearbox, solid bulkhead, extremely well looked after (i'm talking services every 1,500 to 2,000 miles... very excessive!! ) up until the last 3 years where I personally think the last owner has used it as a bit of a weekend event offroader, thats where the servicing and care went out the window a little, but at least they didn't have it too long to cause any real damage! Engine starts first time with no real smoke, no smoke when running or accelerating, engine sounds sweet, turbo works well, gear-changes are smooth (for a Defender). Just genuinely a really good vehicle! I'll let you know how much at the end of this post - also I got 6 months warranty and the vehicle was fully HPI checked and clear.

As others have mentioned, prices are crazy at the moment, and people are jumping on Defenders like lightning (one person who had JUST listed up their Defender, had 6 people contact them within 30 minutes of posting a listing, and actually had a bidding war on their hands as they tried outdoing each other) so you have to make sure you're constantly watching listings and being quick on the phone and getting a holding deposit down quick if going through any form of dealer, but if you're putting down a deposit, make sure it's hitting your criteria, and don't be afraid to ask for your deposit back if it isn't right for you once you actually go see it.

I would definitely recommend a 200tdi or 300tdi (as others have also advised, and you have also decided you like anyway), they are FAR easier to work on than the newer engines, great if you are wanting to learn to how to look after the Defender yourself (even if just for the smaller jobs like oil changes, filter changes, replacing the odd part here and there etc etc.)

I would probably recommend a 300tdi above a 200tdi to anyone buying, simply because parts for the 200tdi are getting harder to come by, and increasing in cost as a result, whereas the 300tdi's are still used VERY widely and parts are cheap and plentiful (but get a 200tdi if you really love the engine, like me )

The engines should easily take you past 500k if it has been looked after, and as long as it's been looked after, it isn't a massive deal to have the engine completely overhauled and good for many millions more (useful place to look if wanting to improve or overhaul the engine - Land Rover Engines supplied by Turner Engineering, new and reconditioned for Range Rover, Discovery, Defender and Freelander)

With regards to veg oil, don't bother... Instead look at ways of improving the economy performance of the Defender and making the Diesel go further, this is a much better way of spending the money you would have used to convert it.

So....

For budgets i'll break this down for you into what you can get for your budget from A) Private trade, B) Small Dealer, C) Larger Dealer

1. Private Trade
   A very good to excellent condition Defender with extras and POSSIBLY a Galvanised chassis to boot, potentially full service history (or close to it) and mileage varying from around 70k to 150k (which is tiny mileage for a well looked after 200 or 300tdi anyway) - unfortunately as this is private, you won't have any guarantees as far as a warranty goes and you will be pretty much on your own once you hand over the cash, so be careful, be sure, make sure to have the vehicle checked before buying, you still have rights, but usually you are safer in the hands of a dealer, especially if paying by card.
2. Small Dealer
   Here you can be lucky and get everything you can potentially get from a private trade, but with the added benefit of being protected and even the possibility of a warranty! Alternatively you might have to adjust your expectations are trade-off your wants a little like you do at a larger dealer, see the point below.
3. Large Dealer
   In this situation, you are probably going to be one or the other, so either a Defender which is a little rough, maybe has high mileage, but has a galv chassis. OR a defender which is in great condition but has medium to high mileage (but probably good service history), but unfortunately doesn't come with a galv chassis.

I personally checked out many Defenders whilst searching for my perfect one, many occasions I missed out because I didn't put a deposit down quick enough and by the time I had phoned back, someone else had already grabbed it.

I ended up grabbing my Defender from a small trader for £4,500 - even while I was there doing the paperwork to buy it, people were phoning up offering the dealer more money than what I was paying and trying to convince them, fortunately they were very nice and true to their word and didn't back out of the deal

There are three things I would advise you above anything else:

1. Be willing to travel ANYWHERE in the UK for the right Defender, I travelled 6 and a half hours one way in order to view and buy mine, but I would happily have driven 6 and a half hours back if it hadn't been the right one for me.
   
2. Don't be afraid to wait for the right Defender, don't rush into buying one just to have one. I had a budget almost identical as yours, yet I got a Defender that was twice as good as anything I had seen in the last 6 months, but for a fraction of the amount I was willing to spend, which meant I could (and currently am) putting that extra money into giving it some extra TLC, new timing belt, FULL service including all transmission, gearbox, engine, fuel, oils filters etc etc. Clutch, new lighting, added security, bits and bobs fixing that every Defender suffers from after time, (list goes on and on).
   
3. If you don't need a CSW (country station wagon), don't need windows or seats in the back, there are FAR more choices and you can save a fair bit of money above what I listed further up.
   

If you need anymore advice at all, feel free to drop me a private message on here, I am happy to chat and help in anyway I can, I think the same goes for anybody on these forums, lovely bunch (albeit a little bonkers )!

 

[lynall]

Have you driven a defender yet?

200 and 300 are slow, td5 better all have crap heater until tdci came out, side window misting up when wet and constant cold stops being fun very quickly, heated screen would help massively with in car safety/comfort.

Disco better car but chassis can suffer as badly as defender.

Clutches are heavy in slow moving traffic, killed wifes back when she had to drive it 5 miles recently, shes not well but even I think its heavy.

My 200 90 (which was my daily for 4 years) has sat on the drive since I bought a D3 and it seems weird not having a to do list every weekend!
Ive left myself a note to take some pics and get it sold soon maybe one day probably.

Veg is a minefield and even people who use it all the time wont tell you the entire story!

 

[Foxyred]

There is a green 2006 hardtop on gum tree add 1121337273 Skipton south yourshire.
Over budget and a TD5 but thats the sort of honest looking 90 id be looking at.

ATB Foxyred

 

[Bails]

I would say private seller is usually the best value for money. If you say you have a budget of 7k but could reach 10k then stick to 7 and then leave any extra cash for work needed.

I can't really disagree with anything others have said, but personally I prefer the 200tdi. Veg oil is a waste of time and money.

Viewing tips:
make sure you take a torch and inspect the chassis thoroughly (visually and by feel), also check the inside of the rear crossmember and the rear part of the chassis. If it is way more corroded than the rest of the chassis then it may have been used for launching boats, in which case stay way from it.

check bulkhead, just below windscreen (if it has vents, open them and look inside)

Have a look under the bonnet before you start it, if the engine is warm wait until its cold again

angle passenger side mirror or get trusted companion to watch exhaust on cold start (bit of black smoke on start is fine, should just be engines 'first puff')

Then have a rev in neutral, watching exhaust

go for a quick test drive. I'm not sure how much you know about gearboxes (google LT77 for earlier vehicles or R380 for later ones) I don't know anything about R380s but if it has an LT77 then check 1-2 gear transition in particular. Also check reverse several times.

Don't forget to test both hi and low ranges and diff lock. Check the dash light for difflock and then give the steering a wiggle while cruising in 2nd. It should feel slightly resistant to the wiggle. Disengage difflock.

Once you have finished the test drive, stop the engine and then start it again, again looking at exhaust smoke.

They are just the basic mechanicals as I don't know much about interiors, trim, panels etc.

No matter how much advice you get on here, I would still take someone with you who knows what to look for and that you can trust. If you are struggling to find anyone, maybe try the staffs and shropshire land rover club : Staffs and Shrops Land Rover Club - News Page

Hope this helps,

Good luck

 

[crowmann]

OP from your detailed description my advice would be to buy a Toyota.

Defenders are fine if you have lots of cash and can happily pay others for the endless repairs or you have the skills/time/inclination to fix yourself.

Anyone else will tire of the Defender/Landrover experience very quickly.

 

[hughesy]

OP from your detailed description my advice would be to buy a Toyota.

Defenders are fine if you have lots of cash and can happily pay others for the endless repairs or you have the skills/time/inclination to fix yourself.

Anyone else will tire of the Defender/Landrover experience very quickly.

That, sadly is the best advice given so far. Unless you want to become a self taught mechanic or you have endless funds to pay a garage Land Rovers are bad news. I have owned several of many different models over a long period of time and there is always a job that needs doing. I once bought a disco off someone who had spent 3000 quid on it in two years and it was still fit for the scrap heap. If you own tools and don't mind using them a Defender can be a very rewarding vehicle but it will take over your life, your finances and your spare time.

 

[FMog]

I think the truth of it, although a Toyota might be practical, she has been looking at Defenders since 2010, I think this girl is a Defender girl at heart, she has the Defender bug

 

[lynall]

Mate at work has 2 toyota landcruiser d4d diesels one has over 200k on the clock, both have only ever needed normal servicing etc
In the time I worked with him I can recall a new back light and a seizing brake calliper, I on the other hand was always doing something to the 90 every weekend, some mine own fault ie serious off roading damage, but mainly it always had a snag list.

 

[FMog]

Mate at work has 2 toyota landcruiser d4d diesels one has over 200k on the clock, both have only ever needed normal servicing etc
In the time I worked with him I can recall a new back light and a seizing brake calliper, I on the other hand was always doing something to the 90 every weekend, some mine own fault ie serious off roading damage, but mainly it always had a snag list.

So true, the Toyota's are great vehicles, I know all the Famers and National Trust rangers around me have either Toyota Hilux's or Defenders

Kinda makes me laugh, when I drive the Defender outside of Cumbria and every Defender driver waves, pips or flashes at me. I cross the border back into Cumbria, nobody gives a damn because EVERYONE seems to have a Defender

You would blow your bulbs and wear your wrist out if you had to flash or wave at every Defender up here In fact, they would probably think something was up with their livestock trailer if you flashed them

 

[mrchurchill109]

I think the truth of it, although a Toyota might be practical, she has been looking at Defenders since 2010, I think this girl is a Defender girl at heart, she has the Defender bug

Sounds like my daughter.

She's been driving LR products since she was 16 (30 now). She has had RRCs, Discos and is now on to a D2. She has driven my Series trucks and Defender but her favorite is my Series I.

Considering her first Range Rover saved her life when she was broadsided by an 18-wheeler (painful memory) there ain't nothin' like them and never will be.

Yes, they have issues...but what doesn't? There isn't a Toyota around here of the age of a D1 or RRC (or Defender) that isn't a rust-raddled wreck and falling to bits. Great engines - not so good paneling.

Stop being negative, you lot!

Alan

 

[becstar]

Hi guys. Firstly, sorry for such a delayed reply - have been away and had no internet! Secondly, a huge thank you for all of your words of wisdom and advice - I am overwhelmed by all of your help and really appreciate the time you have taken in responding

As Mog said, I am definitely set on a Defender so it is just a matter of choosing a good one (that's the hard bit!!). After reading all of your posts, I have decided on a 300 tdi with regards to the engine and I want a station wagon as opposed to the hard top. I have seen a couple that I want to go and view this Saturday. One is on eBay (not an auction, just a classified ad) and the other is on Autotrader. The links are below. If anyone could give me their thoughts on them I would really appreciated. Also, if there is anyone who lives anywhere near Slough or Sevenoaks who would be prepared to meet me to help me look over these two Landys (I can chuck you a beer and a pub lunch) that would be great!

Here are the links:

Thanks again everyone. Mog - I am gonna PM you.

 

[becstar]

Hmmmm - well that didn't work! Try again...

1997 LAND ROVER 90 DEFENDER COUNTY SW TDI | eBay

Land Rover DEFENDER 90 2.5 Tdi Hard Top