Help Please _HPI Check - Outstanding Finance

[suew]

Hi

Hope you dont mind, this is not a Landy question. My daughter bought a car yesterday from a small garage. We are due to pick it up tonight, insurance and everything sorted from 6pm

I have just run a HPI check on it and it has come up with outstanding finance. I rang the garage and they said it will have been a repossession and it can take a few weeks for that to clear on the databases.

They have promised to contact the finance company and get a letter confirming it has been cleared.

I am guessing they bought it from a car auction.

Do I proceed on this tonight if they provide this letter. Or do I back out or wait until the HPI comes up clear.

Thanks

 

[suew]

I have rung the garage and they are getting an email clarification from the finance company that it has been sorted.

Is this OK?

Thanks

 

[dellboy1959]

TBH mate i would wait until the HPI comes through clear as once youv'e bought the car if something is amiss you are then liable and could end up with no car or refund

 

[ScratchyDom]

And is the email actually worth the ether that it passed through? Could they have just knocked it up themselves..?

Although, on second thoughts, they wouldn't do that. Especially as second hand car dealers are some of the most trustworthy characters in our society coming closely behind bankers, insurance salesmen and estate agents.

 

[johnlad]

it does take time for the databases to be updated, but its always a worry, i have bought cars with finance showing but from main dealers, contact the finance company yourself to check everything is above board

 

[dogsbody]

Get the finance company's name and agreement number from the email and talk to them YOURSELF and request that they send you something directly. HPI can be a bit behind the times, especially if the finance company is a bit slow informing them.

 

[dellboy1959]

And is the email actually worth the ether that it passed through? Could they have just knocked it up themselves..?

Although, on second thoughts, they wouldn't do that. Especially as second hand car dealers are some of the most trustworthy characters in our society coming closely behind bankers, insurance salesmen and estate agents.

Very good point,After all you can't show an email of insurance at the PO for road tax for instance.
BE VERY CAREFUL.

 

[suew]

Thank you, its a worry, particularly as I'm doing it for someone else.

I have spoken to the garage again.

The car was traded in to Arnold Clark who apparently are a large dealership.

It was then sold through SMA who run the car auction in Leeds.

It is now in the name of the local garage.

He informs me that he has spoken to the auction and to Arnold Clark.

Apparently Arnold Clark would not have taken it as a trade in if it had outstanding finance.

He says the auction also check them, so he didn't.

Apparently it is illegal for Arnold Clark, the auction or himself to sell a car with outstanding finance. He says that it would come back on all of them if a mistake was made because they are traders.

Arnold Clark are now emailing the details to him and he will supply all of these details when we collect it.

He says this happens to them regularly because of the time it takes to update the databases.

Might speak to Trading Standards to check this is correct. What do you think.

I also comes with a 3 month warranty

 

[suew]

Thanks again

Managed to get the details of the finance company from HPI

They have confirmed it is clear and they are going to update the database.

I think it will be OK now.

By the way Trading Standards said we couldn't have backed out of the purchase even if the Trader was breaking the law (which he would have been) because she left a deposit.

Apparently the deposit made it a legal contract which could have been enforced, which I knew. I wasn't aware however that you could be held to a contract if the seller was doing it illegally. Just shows doesn't it.

 

[Tazz070299]

Thank you, its a worry, particularly as I'm doing it for someone else.

Apparently Arnold Clark would not have taken it as a trade in if it had outstanding finance.

Apparently it is illegal for Arnold Clark, the auction or himself to sell a car with outstanding finance. He says that it would come back on all of them if a mistake was made because they are traders.


Might speak to Trading Standards to check this is correct. What do you think.

I also comes with a 3 month warranty

But Arnold Clark did take a car where HPI shows outstanding finance, as did the Auction House. The dealer may be right about loss of reputation but the only loser in this chain, if it turns out there is finance outstanding, is you. The car will be re-possessed by the rightful owner (the finance company) and everyone else in the chain will have been paid apart from you. Be very very wary.

 

[suew]

But Arnold Clark did take a car where HPI shows outstanding finance, as did the Auction House. The dealer may be right about loss of reputation but the only loser in this chain, if it turns out there is finance outstanding, is you. The car will be re-possessed by the rightful owner (the finance company) and everyone else in the chain will have been paid apart from you. Be very very wary.

I agree, it seems that they will take cars with it showing on the HPI as long as they get confirmation from the finance companies to show it has been paid off.

Shame the finance companies dont remove it from HPI when they know the cars are being sold and they dont have an interest any more.

The one I spoke to today said it was paid off a few weeks ago and they have sent a fax to confirm this to someone today (I assume one of the dealers in the chain) Pretty poor service really, no wonder its such a nightmare buying them.

 

[Richard Martin]

Thanks again

Managed to get the details of the finance company from HPI

They have confirmed it is clear and they are going to update the database.

I think it will be OK now.

By the way Trading Standards said we couldn't have backed out of the purchase even if the Trader was breaking the law (which he would have been) because she left a deposit.

Apparently the deposit made it a legal contract which could have been enforced, which I knew. I wasn't aware however that you could be held to a contract if the seller was doing it illegally. Just shows doesn't it.

This can't be right. If there was finance outstanding on the car then it didn't belong to the trader so he can't sell it to you, so he can't have a legally enforceable contract, whether or not a deposit had been paid is irrelevant.

 

[suew]

This can't be right. If there was finance outstanding on the car then it didn't belong to the trader so he can't sell it to you, so he can't have a legally enforceable contract, whether or not a deposit had been paid is irrelevant.

I agree, I studied contract law years ago, I'm sure that a contract is not enforceable if it would break the law in some way. But thats probably from common law sources. If some trading statute has been passed which changes that I wouldn't know about it.

Luckily I dont have to test it out

 

[dogsbody]

Especially as second hand car dealers are some of the most trustworthy characters in our society coming closely behind bankers, insurance salesmen and estate agents.

How could you miss out politicians?

 

[dogsbody]

Apparently the deposit made it a legal contract which could have been enforced. I wasn't aware however that you could be held to a contract if the seller was doing it illegally. Just shows doesn't it.

I'd love to see that argued in front of a judge !!!

 

[suew]

Actually some horse dealers would beat the lot of those hands down

 

[suew]

I'd love to see that argued in front of a judge !!!

So would I, but not with me footing the bills. Add solicitors and baristers to that list

 

[martin1512]

So would I, but not with me footing the bills. Add solicitors and baristers to that list

My Missus is a solicitor, and she laughed at the advice the lady trading standards gave you, as the law is quite clear here. Only the legal owner of a vehicle can legally sell it. If the vehicle was bought on finance, then the finance company are the legal owners until all outstanding finance has been paid. If a trader sells a vehicle that is subsequently found to have outstanding finance on it, then the sale is deemed to be illegal and any contracts relating to the sale of the vehicle become null & void, and any deposit paid should be returned.
However, if the seller is a private individual, things are slightly different. In this case, the onus is on the buyer to make all reasonable efforts to make sure the vehicle they are buying can be legally sold by the person selling it. If they fail to do so and the vehicle is subsequently repossesed by the finance company, then the buyer may lose the car, and will then have to seek redress from the seller through the courts.

 

[nathan5346]

Only the legal owner of a vehicle can legally sell it. .

Not true

I had a car stolen, 18 months later i had a knock on the door off plod they'd found the car parked up, they took me to get the car because it was on a notoriously ****ty crime ridden estate, when we got there i opened the door to get in and bring it back home when a black guy came over shouting his gob off he'd bought it and got a receipt for it, the copper radioed for back up which arrived in minutes... took me home...

Thats the last i heard of it

 

[martin1512]

Not true

I had a car stolen, 18 months later i had a knock on the door off plod they'd found the car parked up, they took me to get the car because it was on a notoriously ****ty crime ridden estate, when we got there i opened the door to get in and bring it back home when a black guy came over shouting his gob off he'd bought it and got a receipt for it, the copper radioed for back up which arrived in minutes... took me home...

Thats the last i heard of it

Sorry, but it is highly unlikely you would still be clased as the legal owner. Did you receive an insurance payout for the car? If so, legal title then passes to the insurance company who can then sell it on. Otherwise the car would have been declared abandoned and could have been legally claimed by any subsequent finder.