Whats your clutch pedal like?

Re: trucker5774


So the way your doing it is - two man, you open nipple then your pedal man just keeps pumping up and down with the nipple open??


I've also just tried my last suggested method that was advised to me would work.

Not sure when to stop I've gone through over 1 ltr of new clutch/brake fluid already.

Result is still cloudy in the jar.

How much fluid does the clutch system hold??

My pedal will not rise on its own accord, no matter what method is used or how many times I go through the procedure!

The gears will not engage at all now - doh!

Its a shame there isn't a 'pressure bleed kit' to do this its so much easier and quicker.


I don't understand the gears would engage before I started, even though the quality of fluid was crap, now that I've flushed the majority of it out.

It don't work.

Yes nipple open with a submerged tube on it or if you are not bothered about the waste a firm finger on the outlet (the fluid will force past the finger but you should easily keep the air out. The pedal man just keeps pumping. There may be air in one of the components or a high loop in the pipe which is just not clearing. Some sort of reverse filling may work by forcing the fluid in at the nipple. All things I have tried before but not got round to on this one yet.

Anyone know of any good land rover original parts outlets - anything similar to GSF or Europarts?

I came across this place:

Clutch


Also what is the cost of a full clutch kit,master cylinder,slave cylinder,release bearing,flywheel and anything else that may as well be replaced while the gearbox is off?

The pipeline I used was always submerged in fluid on both occasions I tried to bleed the system.

I'm going to try my eezi bleed one man operation pressurised bleed kit if I can, I've used it with success on my brakes before now.


If this doesn't do it, then I'm going to have to start thinking about replacing components, there's no two ways about it.

I've checked the pipeline run from the master cylinder, its pretty parallel around the bulkhead, no highs or lows or twists.


Anyone know what the capacity of fluid the clutch system should hold?


As for reverse fluid forcing it into the nipple I'm not going down that road, I shouldn't have to.

The method in Joe's tutorial is correct no matter what other might tell you. If you can't bleed your system then it's likely the master cylinder is fecked.

The master cylinder can't be goofed, as it was working before I tried to bleed the system.

Trucker5774 states his pedal rises back on its own after its been pumped, whilst he is trying to bleed his system, that to me would that suggest his master slave cylinder is ok?

Is this a good characteristic, if the pedal rises on its own?


Though Joes tutorial states to pull the pedal back up by hand as the pedal will have no spring in it, I have also experienced this today myself.


I don't doubt joes way of bleeding the system, I find it hard to believe it can be done correctly as a one man job!

No matter what system you bleed unless you use a pressure bleed kit, its a two man job.

Re: tucker5774

So if you have one man continuously pumping the pedal, whilst you have opened the nipple and you are watching the pipeline for air and clarity of fluid, at what point do you shut the nipple off and what position is the pedal in when you do so??


The bleed kit I have unfortunately there is no correct cap fitting for the reservoir so I cannot try this method.

OK mate have it your way. Fact is though you WILL end up changing the master cylinder.

tsam19 said:

Just spoke to a mechanic friend.

Here's the way to bleed apparently (I'm about to do it in 5 mins).

Definitely a TWO man job.

One man on the pedal.

Second man on nipple.

Man on pedal puts foot fully to the floor and tells man on nipple, man on nipple then OPENS the nipple (foot stays on the pedal to the floor whilst this is going on) - air and moisture should be expelled from pipeline at this point.

Man on nipple locks OFF nipple, once done this - the man on pedal is told to manually lift the pedal back up.

Reservoir topped up.

Repeat procedure 5 or 6 times.

Click to expand...

This is the way I did it and it worked a treat.
U did need to lift the peddle after closing the nipple.
But now it's fine
Mine has a leak though so needs topping up till I get master fitted.
But the fluid should not be milky unless is has taken in water moisture.

tsam19....When I am bleeding,as the pedal man presses the pedal I close the nipple at the 3/4 press stage so fluid is still being forced out and no chance of air getting in as the pedal rises. I then check the reservoir (combined with the brakes on the Disco) after about 10 pumps and check the pedal for improvement. Repeat until the job is done.
There is nothing to lose trying a pressure bleed system. As for the capacity I'm not sure, but the 2 cylinders and a little pipe won't hold gallons.
I understand your point about the cylinder should be ok as it was working before the bleed, but if it was starting to fail it may be that this has pushed it over the edge.
Remember I have a Disco so the pedal may be different, but the principle of bleeding any hydraulics should be the same. Have a look at the following link out of interest.....Mityvac

Cheers for the tips and advice.


As for the method I was advised on that didn't work for me, that method is probably more orientated for the brakes??


Had another go today, following 'Joes' tutorial again in slow time on my own.

Used about 2 litres of fresh fluid this time to flush out, lots of black debris came out.

Made sure the bleed nipple wasn't open too much, probably 1/4 turn if that.

For some reason it worked this time, I noticed the pedal when pumping back and forth slowly began to get stiffer and springier.

To the point when the bleed nipple is locked off, the pedal springs back up on its own after being depressed.

I am now able to engage gears and get the vehicle off the drive!

However the bite point is still only a few cm's off the floor, as soon as I begin to lift my foot the vehicle moves.


Having read this thread:

http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f9/clutch-biting-point-72246.html


Also taken into account more experienced forum members have had to say,I don't doubt there is a faulty component somewhere.


I'm not taking any chances, It's going into the garage asap this week, I will probably go for getting the whole clutch system replaced.

Anyone know of any reliable places to do it in Manchester?


Lastly one thing sprung to mind was in the 'clutch biting point thread' - the opening query was someone had a new clutch fitted, but still had a low bite point, one of the replies from a forum member was ,there was mention of a 'bent slave cylinder bracket' that could be one of the causes the problem, can anyone confirm how this could cause low bite point?

What should the bracket look like and whats is position in the engine bay, can it be bent back to shape?




Thanks again.


:tea:

You have a Td4 the other thread is for a 1.8 petrol, different gearbox, clutch and hydraulics on them, they have their own faults, nothing like yours.

As for Td4 clutches, this fault is very common and is, 80-90% of the time, cured by either a simple bleed or a new master cylinder. There are never any guarantees but no one in their right mind would go to the expense of removing the gearbox and replacing the complete clutch and concentric slave cylinder without first trying a new master cylinder.

Don't go about this arse about face, if you did remove the box and fit all new clutch parts then why leave a crappy old master cylinder coupled up to what is otherwise a complete new clutch system.

SOLVED:

I'm more inclined to change that component 1st, I initially figured it would be easier to replace everything in one go in the hydraulic clutch system, including the MSC, any garage would probably advise the same as everyone else has, to replace the MSC first, the rest to follow if the bite point doesn't increase in height, if that is a big issue anyway??


If I have to live with a low bite point for the time being, then so be it.


The main thing is the vehicle is still drivable, with smooth gear change & engagement.


Cheers for everyone's replies, cased solved as far as I'm concerned.


:amen:

Finally got round to it! Firstly I bled it...........no different, then fitted a new slave and bled it.........no different. Got a bargain of a master on flea bay, fitted it and bled again.............sorted

Still not the pedal I would like, compared to what I'm used to, but it seems the same as any other Disco.

My method was consistent all through the bleeding and I am as sure as I can be that there was no air in the system after each attempt.

The conclusion is that even though there were no visible signs of wear or damage inside or outside the master cylinder, the must have been some issue with it..........who cares it works now!

trucker5774 said:

Finally got round to it! Firstly I bled it...........no different, then fitted a new slave and bled it.........no different. Got a bargain of a master on flea bay, fitted it and bled again.............sorted

Click to expand...

You fitted the slave before trying a master???
That's major loads of work (taking out gear box) instead of easy job?
Or is it different for a disco

Sasha said:

You fitted the slave before trying a master???
That's major loads of work (taking out gear box) instead of easy job?
Or is it different for a disco

Click to expand...

It's on the outside of the bell housing on a Disco.............and only £12

trucker5774 said:

It's on the outside of the bell housing on a Disco.............and only £12

Click to expand...

How do you do a crying my eyes out face on this!!!

Mine td4 clutch is exactly the same as you described in your the first post. Seams normal to me. And the way you are bleeding your system is totaly wrong. If you just open the nipple and pump the pedal, you will just get drawing air and old fluid back. You would be suprised how little fluid a system holds. Using 2 ltrs is a quite a bit excessive.

2 man job. One man presses the pedal fully to the floor. second man opens the nipple to relieve the pressure and closes the nipple again before the pressure stops. 1st man lets pedal up. repeat process not forgetting to keep the fluid res full. 5 or 6 times should be enough.

2001ytd4 said:

Mine td4 clutch is exactly the same as you described in your the first post. Seams normal to me. And the way you are bleeding your system is totaly wrong. If you just open the nipple and pump the pedal, you will just get drawing air and old fluid back. You would be suprised how little fluid a system holds. Using 2 ltrs is a quite a bit excessive.

2 man job. One man presses the pedal fully to the floor. second man opens the nipple to relieve the pressure and closes the nipple again before the pressure stops. 1st man lets pedal up. repeat process not forgetting to keep the fluid res full. 5 or 6 times should be enough.

Click to expand...

I bled mine as you describe above. I did it on my own using a piece of wood to press and hold the pedal. I reckon the TD5 hold about 200ml...........very little, as you say!

Ended up changing my master and slave cylinder. And clutch too as it had been contaminated
Now my clutch peddle is much higher!

Case solved - shortlived:doh:

2000 miles after bleeding master cylinder on my TD4 , the clutch pedal has gone floppy again and now even harder to get into gear, minimal bite point if any at all!

As I think the slave has gone now!

So gone for the full clutch kit change now regardless.

Definitely a s**t design by land rover.

According to the Land rover garage, they reckon you shouldn't need to bleed the system when replacing new clutch parts as they come already bled and the pipelines are just plugged together creating the seal, and if you do bleed the clutch system, its only short lived as I've found out!