Whats your clutch pedal like?

Hello

I'm new to the TD4 Freelander.

The one I have seems to have been looked after at 94K miles, I was wondering what the clutch pedal was meant to feel like?

I haven't experienced any difficulty in engaging gears of such & the vehicle has no problem accelerating through the gears.

Having been used to driving German cars, then going to the Land rover Freelander, there's a different clutch pedal & biting point feel obviously.

For example pedal sits in line with the other pedals, on depressing the pedal to the floor slowly, the pedal lowers freely without any springiness or stiffness for about an inch or two, then I can feel the pedal tighten/stiffen, becoming springy about an inch or two before it gets to the floor.

The biting point seems quite low too, I don't have to lift the pedal too far up before the vehicle moves.

Basically the pedal doesn't feel really hard or stiff under any tension to push down or that there's no real effort to push the pedal down until the last inch before touching the carpet.

If anyone can relate to the above, as I've explained it the best way possible.

Is this normal or should the pedal be harder and more springy all the way from the top to the floor?

Is the biting point normally low on the TD4?

Thanks.

mines a pressed steel affair with a rubber pad

Mine is very low but my master cylinder is shagged and has actually let in moisture. But being sorted very soon. Just bleed it out good at mo.

So from my initial post you would say that possibly mine would need bleeding too?

How easy is that to do - are there any pics on the site showing forum users what to do?

I have an 'easy bleed' pump system, the sort you use for bleeding the brakes, would that work?


I know before I bought the TD4, the last owner said it had been sat on their drive for a few months without been driven, whether that would have anything to do with it?

Are there any other tests to do to indicate any problem components in the TD4?


Thanks

Prob something on web in how to do it. Or get a Hayes manual. It's easier with 2 people.
But it's defiantly the first thing to look at. I did have trouble getting mine in gear though.
I'm having a new master cylinder fitted for the clutch next week so see if it moves the biting point any more

Mines missing....

Take a look at my tutorial for bleeding )

http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f9/td4-clutch-bleed-tutorial-137699.html

I do have a haynes manual, but the maintenance procedure doesn't always back up the few pictures they include in the manual, plus the pictures are difficult to locate in the engine bay.

For example - I'm now reading on how to 'bleed the clutch' Ch 6.3 para 5.5 by attaching a pressure bleed kit to the 'brake fluid reservoir' not the 'master cylinder reservoir'..

If I did it as in the tutorial, can it be done by one person or..

Can I still do it the haynes way with a pressure bleed kit attached to the brake fluid reservoir, as this surely would be a one man job to just crack the bleed nipple and let the pressurized air push the fresh fluid from attached container via the spare wheel going through the reservoir flush out the bubbles/air from the system, as you would the same doing the brakes on a car?

Or have haynes made a typo, do I have to connect the pressure bottled system to the master cylinder reservoir instead?

All in all it doesn't seem to be a difficult job.

Thanks

Mr Haynes must have bin havin a bad day, do it this way....

joe27979 said:

Take a look at my tutorial for bleeding )

http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f9/td4-clutch-bleed-tutorial-137699.html

Click to expand...

So the pressure bleeding kit I have is not useful for this procedure then?

Are the brakes & clutch pipeworks & reservoirs joined in any way or are they separate?

I'm just wondering why they mentioned it in the haynes manual?

Anyway after reading through the tutorial and its success, I just wondered.

The glass jar I use to catch the fluid in, should I fill partially with fluid to start with (same principal/method as bleeding the brakes from the caliper nipples) or leave empty?

Also if I'm pumping the clutch pedal with my hand, one full stroke up and down, with the 8mm nipple open, do I not need to lock off the nipple mid stroke, so no air or moisture gets sucked back into the system?

3 main pedal pumps up and down is sufficient to correctly bleed the clutch system?

What I understand is I'm basically flushing, old clutch fluid from the master slave cylinder through the pipes through to the bleed nipple, making sure the MSC gets topped up too, hopefully expelling air and any moisture in the system.

Now If I do this and the pedal bite point is still very low (as it is now basically 2/3cm off the floor at the minute) then I will need to replace the MSC or alternative?

I don't think the clutch itself needs replacing as the TD4 has a bit of poke about her, I also think at some point in her life she may have had a new one fitted, by whom I don't know but they may have not bled the system properly??

I will report back with my results.

Thanks for the advice.

tsam19 said:

The glass jar I use to catch the fluid in, should I fill partially with fluid to start with (same principal/method as bleeding the brakes from the caliper nipples) or leave empty?

Also if I'm pumping the clutch pedal with my hand, one full stroke up and down, with the 8mm nipple open, do I not need to lock off the nipple mid stroke, so no air or moisture gets sucked back into the system?

Click to expand...

put a bit of fluid in the jar, that way you dont have to do the nut up if you are on your own bleeding the system, as the upstroke will pull slightly from the fluid in the jar and not fresh air from the jar if it was empty!

The clutch and brake hydralulics are totally seperate systems on the TD4,

Once you have bled as in the tutorial above, if you did have any spongyness or air in the system your pedal will feel a lot firmer - however if your master cylinder is leaking, or indeed slave cylinder in the bell housing leaking this firmness will be short lived!.
take a look in your drivers footwell and see if you can see any hydraulic fluid leaking down the master cylinder piston - this can be the cause and also the entry point of air into a spongy pedal.

There's no need for you to put some fluid in the jar as you are going to bleed out all the old fluid until you see clean new fluid being expelled from the pipe. I don't know how many pumps you'll get without risking the master cylinder drawing in air so try 3 and increase next time if you think there was enough left to do so. There's no need to lock up the nipple each time you pump.

I have the same symptom with my TD5. I will be bleeding mine (when I get a chance) with someone else pressing the pedal and me at the nipple preventing suck back by nipping it up on the press of the pedal, 90% of the way down. I will use a jar and tube with fluid already in the jar covering the outlet of the tube.

What are the master slave cylinders and slave cylinder in the bell housing like to change over, whats the access or how much room do you have to play around with?

Hopefully I won't have to change one, But I've been on eBay pricing them up.

td4 master cylinder items - Get great deals on Vehicle Parts Accessories, Land Rover items on eBay UK!


Also the slave cylinder


http://shop.ebay.co.uk/i.html?_nkw=...ylinder&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313


Thanks

tsam19 said:

What are the master slave cylinders and slave cylinder in the bell housing like to change over, whats the access or how much room do you have to play around with?

Hopefully I won't have to change one, But I've been on eBay pricing them up.

td4 master cylinder items - Get great deals on Vehicle Parts Accessories, Land Rover items on eBay UK!


Also the slave cylinder


td4 slave cylinder items - Get great deals on Vehicle Parts Accessories, Transmission Drivetrain items on eBay UK!


Thanks

Click to expand...

Master cylinder change is a 30min job..advisable to bleed through new fluid after you change it.

Slave cylinder different story: gearbox off and clutch out to change that one as it is in the bell housing. Try bleeding through first, then if it hasnt helped much change your master cylinder and bleed through again...if it hasnt helped still then you might be in for a big garage bill. If your going in to change the slave cylinder i'd also replace the release bearing and clutch kit at the same time to save you having to go back into it...luckily changing the master cylinder and bleeding cured my problems! good luck!

I could do with some help at the minute, I've followed the advice in the tutorial - working on my own - the tutorial doesn't say if its a one or two man job to bleed the clutch following the tutorial - so I presume its a one man job.

Got to say for anyone else who's going to try this, its a real bitch to get the pipe on the end of the bleed nipple, I found by using my left hand prise the pipe upwards and use your right hand to force the pipe on.

Used a tin foil cardboard tube insert instead of syringe to top up reservoir.

Have flushed the old stuff out, which by the picture shown its a dark creamy bubbly sort of fluid, certainly not clear, there were plenty of bubbles traveling through pipe as I pumped the clutch pedal up and down.

Whether that was because I'd undone the bleed nipple too much (opened it less than 1 turn in the end) and air was getting into the bleed nipple connection?

I kept nipping the nipple up to see if the air would reduce.

The clean fresh fluid is now in place with no visible air bubbles in the pipeline.


On seeing this with no cloudiness or bubbles in the pipeline.

Having pumped the pedal up and down various times,whilst also keeping the master slave cylinder reservoir topped up.

The clutch pedal in its fully upright - unengaged position - I locked the bleed nipple back off and removed the pipe.

Started the vehicle and pushed down on the clutch pedal and - there is no stiffness what so ever it has gone worse, - really sloppy - there is no spring in the pedal, I have to lift it up by hand, I didn't even try to engage the gears at this point.

What have I done wrong??

As I mentioned above and in my initial post inquiry is this a two man job whereby the bleed nipple has to be locked off when the clutch pedal is full depressed or halfway traveling back?

Just like you would do bleeding the brakes without a 'pressure bleed kit' - two man job.

One person presses the pedal up and down and the other locks off the nipple on the pedals halfway return??


Thanks in advance.

I have just tried to bleed my 2002 td5. I have had the same sort of problem. I got the Mrs to pump the pedal while I pressed my finger over the end of the nipple (probably a better seal than the pipe I couldnt find.)
We did about 30 pumps with no improvement......but no worse. I don't know it the master and slave are easy to change on mine or not?

Just spoke to a mechanic friend.

Here's the way to bleed apparently (I'm about to do it in 5 mins).

Definitely a TWO man job.

One man on the pedal.

Second man on nipple.

Man on pedal puts foot fully to the floor and tells man on nipple, man on nipple then OPENS the nipple (foot stays on the pedal to the floor whilst this is going on) - air and moisture should be expelled from pipeline at this point.

Man on nipple locks OFF nipple, once done this - the man on pedal is told to manually lift the pedal back up.

Reservoir topped up.

Repeat procedure 5 or 6 times.

I will report back.



I came across this thread and don't believe this person did it correctly either.

http://forums.mg-rover.org/showthread.php?t=305843

I certainly don't want to go down that road.

You shouldn't need to lock the nipple of with every pump. My pedal rises again on its own.
I have tried it the way you describe and as per my last post. It doesn't help that the pipe rises above the master cylinder before going to the slave. I even try elevating the front of the car so the bleed nipple is higher on the slave............next up is changing the slave and the master.

drivers side under the dash the 1 on the left did have a rubber boot on it but it fell off so easier to distinguish now from the brake now