>Water flowing in bowl when cold

Hi Everyone,

When the car is cold and engine off, some pipes are squashed (see picture)



When I start the engine, I see water flowing in the bowl (see Video)

http://labarette.free.fr/xfer/freelander/FreelanderBowl.mp4

I think this is not normal (?)

What do you think ?


Thanks

thefrog said:

Hi Everyone,

When the car is cold and engine off, some pipes are squashed (see picture)
View attachment 303062


When I start the engine, I see water flowing in the bowl (see Video)

http://labarette.free.fr/xfer/freelander/FreelanderBowl.mp4

I think this is not normal (?)

What do you think ?


Thanks

Click to expand...

Hi there, if any of your coolant hoses are collapsing then it’s best to replace them.
If by bowl you mean the coolant reservoir at back left of engine bay above strut when facing vehicle then yea the small tube should constant feed back into the reservoir from the radiator I think.

If the hose(s) is collapsing, then I'd consider changing the expansion tank cap as well. It should hold pressure outwards, but also allow air back in presumably.

However, isn't collapsing hoses a known thing and accepted or are they vacuum hoses?

GrumpyGel said:

If the hose(s) is collapsing, then I'd consider changing the expansion tank cap as well. It should hold pressure outwards, but also allow air back in presumably.

However, isn't collapsing hoses a known thing and accepted or are they vacuum hoses?

Click to expand...

The coolant hoses become soft over time. It’s partly a sign that they need replacing if they collapse easily.
Yeah the system is under pressure when hot but when cold can create a slight vacuum if the temp goes low enough.
If the cap wasn’t sealing then the vacuum couldn’t be created, and it would likely overflow the cap when hot.

Thanks for this.
The bowl and cap are new.
I don't understand. The radiator water circuit should be closed when the engine is cold, why is water flowing from the radiator ?

thefrog said:

Thanks for this.
The bowl and cap are new.
I don't understand. The radiator water circuit should be closed when the engine is cold, why is water flowing from the radiator ?

Click to expand...

Ah ok no worries. The small tube that returns coolant to the reservoir, the other end goes to the radiator but it has a t piece near the reservoir that goes to the cylinder head. So even when the thermostat is closed coolant still flows through the head and block. From the reservoir coolant heads back into I believe the water pump to start the cycle again.

Ok thanks, I understand now.
So I will change all these parts to be safe

Just check something before you replace anything.
Check plugs for colour, all the same greyish. Compression test if you can do one.

When my 1.8 had head gasket problems it blew the hoses up very very hard and then they looked like yours when it cooled down.

Not wanting to worry you but if it is suspect best to catch it early.

Not unusual to see collapsed hoses on some coolant systems, some of the scania trucks do the same.
Certainly would not change hoses because of it, plus there is a good chance the new hoses will do just the same.

thefrog said:

Thanks for this.
The bowl and cap are new.
I don't understand. The radiator water circuit should be closed when the engine is cold, why is water flowing from the radiator ?

Click to expand...

The small pipe always flows a small amount of coolant back to the reservoir, which is part of the self bleeding system. The idea is that any air gets taken back to the reservoir with the small amount of coolant flow. There's not much coming from the radiator, most coolant flow comes from the top of the cylinder head, so it's not going to cool the engine.

lynall said:

Not unusual to see collapsed hoses on some coolant systems, some of the scania trucks do the same.
Certainly would not change hoses because of it, plus there is a good chance the new hoses will do just the same.

Click to expand...

I would disagree. I repair and mot about a total of 3,000 cars per year and very rarely do I see a collapsed coolant hose. When I do the hose has always gone soft. The replacements are never soft the same and never collapse like the one I’ve replaced.

When my k series hoses started to collapse I replaced them all with better ones from a breakers and none collapsed again.

I don’t think scania trucks can even compared to cars like that as the cooling systems are very different.

Once the hose has gone soft it’s much easier for it to rupture under standard system pressure.
I’ve seen a few hoses in my career explode during a diesel emissions test, always a soft hose.

Ross Tait said:

I would disagree. I repair and mot about a total of 3,000 cars per year and very rarely do I see a collapsed coolant hose. When I do the hose has always gone soft. The replacements are never soft the same and never collapse like the one I’ve replaced.

When my k series hoses started to collapse I replaced them all with better ones from a breakers and none collapsed again.

I don’t think scania trucks can even compared to cars like that as the cooling systems are very different.

Once the hose has gone soft it’s much easier for it to rupture under standard system pressure.
I’ve seen a few hoses in my career explode during a diesel emissions test, always a soft hose.

Click to expand...

So let me get this straight, you think truck cooling systems are very different to truck ones?

62 cars a week is some work for one person.

When I worked for the main dealer, I was expected to service 7 to 9 cars a day, A services mind. B services and repairs were timed on a job by job basis.
I definitely wouldn't be doing that now, as I've been out of that trade for over 20 years.

Nodge68 said:

When I worked for the main dealer, I was expected to service 7 to 9 cars a day, A services mind. B services and repairs were timed on a job by job basis.
I definitely wouldn't be doing that now, as I've been out of that trade for over 20 years.

Click to expand...

That must have been some quality work?

thefrog said:

Thanks for this.
The bowl and cap are new.
I don't understand. The radiator water circuit should be closed when the engine is cold, why is water flowing from the radiator ?

Click to expand...

When my D1V8 was overheating, the tank cap was found to be out of spec and replaced with a new one.

When tested, the new one was even worse than the old 1.

It was replaced with 1 that held the correct pressure.

Might be worth testing both actions of the new cap.

The hose may have gone soft, and that is poosibly due to being constantly overly expanded or contracted by the old cap being faulty, so if you replace the hose, if the new cap is not within spec it will do the same to the hoses or a lot worse.

lynall said:

That must have been some quality work?

Click to expand...

Always quality work.
Servicing was easy, almost monotonous. Most of us could carry out an A service on a Saxo (I worked for Citroën for 10 years) in under 50 minutes, once you have a routine it's easy. Warranty work was more interesting, but mostly it was normal servicing and repairs.

A worked for a small garage before the Citroën main dealer, were the owner would take in anything from a 2CV to a Mercedes 814 horse box. That was an interesting job, but hard work at times, especially as there were just 2 of use doing the work, with the owner doing the administration, taking bookings and disappearing at short notice.

This is ancient history off course. I'm doing something completely different now and love it.

Thanks for all this information.
The big radiator hose if very soft, it feels like foam.
I can squash it very easy with just 2 fingers

I've ordered the parts, I will change them and let you know..

I forgot to tell you that when I remove the cap when the car is cold, its goes Pschhttt !
And the pipes come back to a normal shape

thefrog said:

I forgot to tell you that when I remove the cap when the car is cold, its goes Pschhttt !
And the pipes come back to a normal shape

Click to expand...

There are 2 valves in a pressure cap, one valve holds the pressure until the maximum is exceeded. The other allows air back in to prevent a vacuum developing once the engine cools down.
That suggests the cap air admittance valve is stuck closed, allowing a vacuum to form.

So I bought the new pipes but haven't found time to fit them.
I opened the bonnet today and so the coolant level UNDER the minimum. It seems coolant is disappearing. No visible leak, no overheating and no mayonnaise in the oil.
Could this be because of a faulty pressure cap ?
Its new, but maybe not the right specs ?