Freelander 1 Timing Belt Change

HI Everyone,

I'm trying to change the timing belt on my 1.8 Freelander. It has been done last in 2011

I've positioned the pulley to TDC, locked the fly wheel with a special tool, and removed the big pulley wheel. As you can see in the picture, the cog is not aligned correctly.

Does this mean that the previous guy didn't position correctly the pulley after changing the time belt ?

So it's not really important how you place the big pulley wheel ?

Thanks

Being totally ignorant of Freelanders, does the VVT on the cogwheeel mean Freelander ones had variable valve timing?
Just checked, yes it does, so could this explain why the crankshaft seems so out of position in relation to the cam(s)?
It could also mean that the TDC on the pulley is showing you that the pulley has slipped in relation to the crank as it doesn't seem to have a Woodruff key.
Just using old Skool common sense not knowing the ins and outs of Freelanders.

thefrog said:

Does this mean that the previous guy didn't position correctly the pulley after changing the time belt ?

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It looks like it's got a 1.8 VVC pulley on it.
From memory the timing position is slightly different on the VVC compared to the standard crank pulley.

Just watching a Youtube on this and this is a screens hot of where his crank was after taking off his pulleyn wherehe had ensured the timing makr was on TDC, looks a lot like yours!

Again

But THEN he turns the crank a little further cos the two little marks on the crankshaft cog are NOT lined up with the vertical timing mark on the block!
See

This is then verified with the marks on the cams sprockets.

The VVT markings are probably a red herring.
Here's how they line up according to the manual.

Nodge68 said:

The VVTal markings are probably a red herring.
Here's how they line up according to the manual. View attachment 277845

Click to expand...

On the Youtube the blokey showed how to check that the tension on the tensioner is correct, and it isn't like this one at all.

the fork gap needs to line up with the end of the spring which is held in place by a bolt.

Stanleysteamer said:

On the Youtube the blokey showed how to check that the tension on the tensioner is correct,

Click to expand...

There are 2 types of tensioner fitted to the k series engine.
The one in the manual diagram above is for the manual tensioner, but the YT video is showing the auto tensioner.
From memory the post 2001 MY FL1 uses an auto tensioner.
What is more relevant is the position of the timing marks, which is the same on all engines.

Stanleysteamer said:

Just checked, yes it does, so could this explain why the crankshaft seems so out of position in relation to the cam(s)?

Click to expand...

The Freelander 1.8 never had VVT, only the MGF VVC and a couple of Rover 200 high performance models used it.
The FL1 used a fixed timing 1.8 K series.

The engine in the picture has been timed 2 cam belt teeth retarded.

Nodge68 said:

There are 2 types of tensioner fitted to the k series engine.
The one in the manual diagram above is for the manual tensioner, but the YT video is showing the auto tensioner.
From memory the post 2001 MY FL1 uses an auto tensioner.
What is more relevant is the position of the timing marks, which is the same on all engines.

Click to expand...

Yes it would help to know what MY his Freelander is!
Agree totally with your post but it is very interesting that neither of these seems to have the correct timing marks on the timing belt cover! Although the ones on the block are OK.
So what on earth is all that about?
As I said, I don't know the Freelander.
Was thinking of possibly getting one.
Not so sure now!!

Nodge68 said:

The Freelander 1.8 never had VVT, only the MGF VVC and a couple of Rover 200 high performance models used it.
The FL1 used a fixed timing 1.8 K series.

The engine in the picture has been timed 2 cam belt teeth retarded.

Click to expand...

This is fascinating.
To check, which is what I referred to, I googled "Freelander VVT" and came up with this
https://www.yourmechanic.com/estima...ariable-valve-timing-vvt-solenoid-replacement.
So I guess I jumped the gun and wrongly linked the VVT stamp on the sprocket wheel with VVT which apparently doesn't exist. And the article from google refers to a later model or summat!
Anyway, being ignorant of Freelanders, which is now becoming obvious, I will bow out graciously from the mechanical part of this discussion!
One further Q for the OP though, coming up!

@thefrog Whereabouts in France are you? We have a place in the Tarn, not that I could help you even if your place is nearby as we are back in the UK for 6 months!

If it has been running fine then align the cam pulleys as above, locking pin should then fit into crank. Ignore incorrect vvt pulley marks.

My 2003 had a manual tensioner so not sure when they changed it.

Stanleysteamer said:

Agree totally with your post but it is very interesting that neither of these seems to have the correct timing marks on the timing belt cover!

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There is a timing mark on the cover, but it lines up with a notch on the crank damper pulley. The mark on the cover and V notch on the damper pulley are purely there to get the crankshaft in alignment, so a locking pin can be inserted into the flywheel. To access the belt, the damper pulley and cover need removing, so they can't be used for timing.
This is where the cast in pointer on the oil pump and 2 dots on the belt pulley come into play.

Nodge68 said:

There is a timing mark on the cover, but it lines up with a notch on the crank damper pulley. The mark on the cover and V notch on the damper pulley are purely there to get the crankshaft in alignment, so a locking pin can be inserted into the flywheel. To access the belt, the damper pulley and cover need removing, so they can't be used for timing.
This is where the cast in pointer on the oil pump and 2 dots on the belt pulley come into play.

Click to expand...

Quite, and this was all obvious from the YT vid.
And in that case the two sets of marks, i.e. the ones on the cover and the Crank pulley, and the ones on the sprocket and the block, did not align together, he had to turn the crank about 30 degrees to get the one on the block to line up with the two dots on the sprocket. So that would equate to about 15 degs on the cams. How the heck could the engine run properly like that? The answer seems to be that in fact, he didn't have a problem the problem was with the marks on the cover.
And the OP seems to be having the same problem, as you say, two cogs out, UNLESS when he aligns it correctly at the bottom the top then turns out to be correct, as happened in the vid?!
Very weird, am wondering if the timing marks are something else entirely. OR in both cases the pulley wheel had been replaced wrong.
Bring back the Woodruff key!

Stanleysteamer said:

And in that case the two sets of marks, i.e. the ones on the cover and the Crank pulley, and the ones on the sprocket and the block, did not align together, he had to turn the crank about 30 degrees to get the one on the block to line up with the two dots on the sprocket.

Click to expand...

The cover marks and the oil pump marks are in different positions, but once the crank is locked, the position can't be wrong.
The picture the OP posted clearly shows the timing is 2 teeth retarded, so presumably the crank wasn't locked when the last belt was fitted, and engine would have been down on performance as a result.

Nodge68 said:

The cover marks and the oil pump marks are in different positions, but once the crank is locked, the position can't be wrong.
The picture the OP posted clearly shows the timing is 2 teeth retarded, so presumably the crank wasn't locked when the last belt was fitted, and engine would have been down on performance as a result.

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I'll say! wonder it ran at all!
He'll get a big shock once it's done properly!
Looking forward to his telling us about it!

Stanleysteamer said:

I'll say! wonder it ran at all!
He'll get a big shock once it's done properly!
Looking forward to his telling us about it!

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The K series will actually run with the cam retarded a few degrees, even quite well.
However if the cam is advanced by more than 1 tooth, then the intake valves hit the pistons, which bends them quite effectively, causing it to run really badly if at all.

Nodge68 said:

The cover marks and the oil pump marks are in different positions, but once the crank is locked, the position can't be wrong.
The picture the OP posted clearly shows the timing is 2 teeth retarded, so presumably the crank wasn't locked when the last belt was fitted, and engine would have been down on performance as a result.

Click to expand...

Found this in another thread,
"As above: TDC is not the same as the crank "safe" position used to align the cam pulleys; TDC is approx 25 degrees before "safe". It sounds as though cam timing is now correct, but was quite a way out the first time if you timed everything to TDC."
from
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/1-8-sounds-like-diesel.320558/page-2
this all now makes perfect sense!
Never worked on a car before where cam timing is NOT carried out at TDC.