Project Wolf D90 - Rally Suspension ?

landy afliction · Oct 2, 2020

Hi all, looking for some thoughts, suggestions or guidance on who to speak to or where to look for setting up a 300tdi Defender 90 suspension to do the Intercontinental Rally (Old Paris Dakar Route) in Jan 2022. The base vehicle is a ex military Wolf Defender 90, internal roll cage, strengthened chassis and axles, some other nice features for this trip so thought it would be a good start for the project. The truck will get a full overhaul, engine out, full tune up, gear and T box out and overhauled and maybe change gear box ratios. Thoughts ?

Re Suspension. My thinking is that large axle articulation is not that relevant for the event but I do need springs and dampers that can handle all day fast punishment driving on broken rock desert trails, sand, corrugations etc. Will most probably run with 245/75/16 BFG All Terrains unless anyone else has a view. I'm also wondering whether I should be considering lowering the truck to reduce the centre of gravity and tighten it up a bit and make it less wallowy. Is that sensible or is the compromise on suspension travel too great? Any thoughts on best springs and damper combo? Progressive springs? Bump stops? HD shocks, dual shocks or external reservoir? We are enthusiastic amateurs rather than full competition as you might have gathered already but, for the challenge of it, we will be entering the race rather than the adventure group. Any thoughts or experience insights most welcome. Thanks.

300bhp/ton · Oct 2, 2020

How much money are you looking to spend? I'd have thought looking at what the Comp Safari boys or Hill Rally run. There is also the BCCC with quite a few LR's.

Are there any regs you need to adhere too? Will you be carrying spares?

Some friends used to hill rally many years back. Maybe 15-20 years ago. Even back then the shocks they used ran to be about £4k a corner. A lot of Comp Boys get rid of the rear A frame and convert to running radius arms on the rear.

tottot · Oct 2, 2020

Have a look at bowler motor sports, they know a thing or two about doing the Dakar.

v8250 · Oct 2, 2020

As @tottot , talk to Bowler but keep wallet firmly closed...also talk to Gwyn Lewis, he/the company have huge off road competition experience and good proven products https://gwynlewis4x4.co.uk/ [wallet safe...]

eta: good luck with project

landy afliction · Oct 2, 2020

300bhp/ton said:
How much money are you looking to spend? I'd have thought looking at what the Comp Safari boys or Hill Rally run. There is also the BCCC with quite a few LR's.

Are there any regs you need to adhere too? Will you be carrying spares?

Some friends used to hill rally many years back. Maybe 15-20 years ago. Even back then the shocks they used ran to be about £4k a corner. A lot of Comp Boys get rid of the rear A frame and convert to running radius arms on the rear.

Thanks @300bhp/ton. I think we'll stick with the enthusiastic amateur part. i.e not 4K a corner part

!! But I'll look at the things you suggested. I guess as with all these things it's about compromise. Ultimately we want a set up that will give a half decent decent ride and traction without breaking us or the truck to bits and take the punishment of the heat and terrain. I also spoke with Andy Sergeant this afternoon who's a bit of a Land Rover Rally legend and he was super super helpful. His view was you don't need to deviate too far from standard, no lift, no lower, possibly better standard duty springs but definitely better shocks which will be the things that takes the biggest a beating and get super hot. Thanks again

landy afliction · Oct 2, 2020

v8250 said:
As @tottot , talk to Bowler but keep wallet firmly closed...also talk to Gwyn Lewis, he/the company have huge off road competition experience and good proven products https://gwynlewis4x4.co.uk/ [wallet safe...]

eta: good luck with project

.
Thanks @v8250. I have looked at Bowler. Very nice but as you say ££ My wife is doing her nut that a 4th Land Rover has turned up already !!!! Thanks for the tip on GwynLewis. I'll look them up.

neilly · Oct 2, 2020

landy afliction said:
.
Thanks @v8250. I have looked at Bowler. Very nice but as you say ££ My wife is doing her nut that a 4th Land Rover has turned up already !!!! Thanks for the tip on GwynLewis. I'll look them up.

Mr Lewis will steer you right ref the suspension set up you need, I have just fitted a set of OME +5 shocks supplied by him . Another good call is Extreme 4x4 , Give them a call and speak to them as well, I use their Springs on my 90. But you need to know your load on each axle to really get the benefit.

As you are going to try and keep spares to the simplest, I would say going pin to pin all around would be a good idea.

Cheers

flat · Oct 2, 2020

Don’t the army rally wolf 90’s in standard tune? And do okay? Updated springs and fill the back with spares and off you go maybe??

flat · Oct 2, 2020

By which I mean it might be a bit more cost effective to fit LR HD shocks and springs and take some spares,

I would worry about wheel bearings, radiator and drive hubs I think, maybe cv joints aswell.

Huddy84 · Oct 2, 2020

I’m thinking same as Flat. Standard wolf is very high spec as it comes, getting it all back to 100% should be all it needs. Maybe fit anti-roll bars if your wanting more speed/handling and sacrifice articulation.

flat · Oct 2, 2020

Huddy84 said:
I’m thinking same as Flat. Standard wolf is very high spec as it comes, getting it all back to 100% should be all it needs. Maybe fit anti-roll bars if your wanting more speed/handling and sacrifice articulation.

That’s a good shout.

Also is it worth considering running tubes in tubeless tyres (that can take tubes or tubeless) that way you can carry a couple spare tyres but also a box of inner tubes. Or get some sort of bead locker or run flat system?

flat · Oct 2, 2020

Also if you are driving on corrugations at speed for a long time make sure all your nuts and bolts are done tight or locktite’d

I drove 100’s of miles in the outback and we managed to vibrate the sump plug out :/ so genuinely, take a spare sump plug!

flat · Oct 2, 2020

Although I was in a Toyota ute and it was a bit ****ty :/

Hicap phill · Oct 3, 2020

I can see this been an expensive trip.
Is this a speed event?

shocks. Change to pin to pin style all round. Cuts down on spares
Springs. Leave the helper springs in the rear.
Hydrolic bump stops. These help cusion any excitement you may find.

yep I replaced shocks(fox with remote coolers) after 150miles of off road racing. You need to be fit to race as spannering is also needed in between.

final tip.
Attach sand ladders by some rope to your motor when used. This saves you stopping to collect them & getting stuck/carrying them .
good luck

landy afliction · Oct 3, 2020

neilly said:
Mr Lewis will steer you right ref the suspension set up you need, I have just fitted a set of OME +5 shocks supplied by him . Another good call is Extreme 4x4 , Give them a call and speak to them as well, I use their Springs on my 90. But you need to know your load on each axle to really get the benefit.

As you are going to try and keep spares to the simplest, I would say going pin to pin all around would be a good idea.

Cheers

Thanks @neilly. I’ll give them both a call to box this in. I also spoke with Andy Sargeant yesterday who’s a bit of a Land Rover rally legend by all accounts (Look him up on YouTube) and what a super nice guy too. He couldn’t have been more keen to help. His thoughts for this sort of thing (which he did competitively in 06 I think he said) was that good quality standard duty zero lift springs were brilliant but you need much better shocks to take the punishment of the trails and corrugations all day. He has suggested 2.5” Fox with remote reservoirs which will transform the ride. It’s what he uses on his comp truck. He also suggested 235/85/16 all terrains on steel modulars. Standard tyre size easy to source in the sticks and the rims can be beaten back into shape out in the field if necessary rather than anything fancy. When you say going Pin to Pin do you mean the shock mounts I.e straight through like the front shock mounts rather than bushed as per rear shock top mount?

neilly · Oct 3, 2020

landy afliction said:
When you say going Pin to Pin do you mean the shock mounts I.e straight through like the front shock mounts rather than bushed as per rear shock top mount?

Sounds like you are on the ball and getting things sorted.

Yes changing to pin to pin, means you only need to carry one style of spare. rather than two different sorts.

Cheers

landy afliction · Oct 3, 2020

neilly said:
Sounds like you are on the ball and getting things sorted.

Yes changing to pin to pin, means you only need to carry one style of spare. rather than two different sorts.

Cheers

landy afliction · Oct 3, 2020

Hicap phill said:
I can see this been an expensive trip.
Is this a speed event?

shocks. Change to pin to pin style all round. Cuts down on spares
Springs. Leave the helper springs in the rear.
Hydrolic bump stops. These help cusion any excitement you may find.

yep I replaced shocks(fox with remote coolers) after 150miles of off road racing. You need to be fit to race as spannering is also needed in between.

final tip.
Attach sand ladders by some rope to your motor when used. This saves you stopping to collect them & getting stuck/carrying them .
good luck

Thanks @Hicap phill. All good tips. We will be entering the “race” group although we will no doubt be the enthusiastic amateurs at the back but it’s about doing the whole thing with my boys really. Think I’m zeroing I’m on the set up. Basically standard duty springs but spend the money in the shocks!! Also get rid of as much dead weight as possible. Good tip on sand ladders. I have used that trick before. That bit of string is the co drivers best friend!! Saves a lot of swearing, sweating and running in soft sand carrying ladders !!

landy afliction · Oct 3, 2020

flat said:
Also if you are driving on corrugations at speed for a long time make sure all your nuts and bolts are done tight or locktite’d

I drove 100’s of miles in the outback and we managed to vibrate the sump plug out :/ so genuinely, take a spare sump plug!

Thanks @flat. All good tips. I agree the Wolf has a lot of great features as a base for this project. Solid platform which we will hopefully just tweak here and there to make better for the specific task in mind. Cheers

flat · Oct 3, 2020

This is a really interesting idea, please please keep us updated n the planning and the trip and what worked and what didn’t. This is fascinating

Project Wolf D90 - Rally Suspension ?

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