300tdi auto non starter w/massive current drain

Looked at FAQs and searched first cos this is a new one on me.Just put rebuilt head and new gasket on 300 auto 1997.Been sitting a couple of months waiting for fix and the head has been sitting on the bench a year since it was built.All seemed OK,first day used a lot of oil which I put down to sticky rings and stiff valves,seemes to have cured itself.


But,second day,battery flat,took a very short jump start to go.Came out of the supermarket to a flat battery,which took a hell of a jump from a mate to start.Next morning wont even start with a fresh battery<I had three known good ones fully charged for the event> and trying to jump from a friends truck lead to smoking melting leads.Engine barely turns over.

On investigation there is a massive drain when the ignition is turned on.Tried disconnecting glow plug relay,no change.Tried disconnecting alternator,then starter,no change.Replaced alternator.No change.Took ignition switch cowling off,no obvious shorts or damage.Disconnected tow split charge lives and trigger.No change.

Does anyone have ANY ideas on this one cos its got me stumped and bloody annoyed.I had got it on the road as my other needs MOT and the insurance was £700 due to three accidents in last 2 years.

HELP!

Was that smoking jump leads??

Is it when the ignition is just turned to pos 1 or when you go to crank it over??

Dave

thanks for the reply mate!Yes,jump leads smoking at any position,0,1 and cranking

come to think of it the smoking started while cranking

break in the main cable to the starter?

Shorted starter??

Solenoid busted and shorting to cassis instead of starter??

Not much else that can take that sort of current without spontaneously combusting.

only thing that comes to mind without seeing it, has the starter cable touched exhaust and melted?

how big is this drain, and does it do it regardless of ignition position?

you havent trapped a wire when putting head back on and squished it?

Just a thought. Did you refit the engine earth ?

Earth fitted,thanks!possibilty of trapped wires as I did the head alone and couldnt see back there.....going to try another temp big cable to starter....another starter....and try to see if behind head wires are free.

Thanks everyone for your quick and thoughtful help.Just typed a long reply and computer timed it out and lost it,but any and all ideas are very gratefully recieved !

Right,managed to get that one to post !

The current drop is over 2 volts at any key position except 1.When the head went it chucked A LOT of oil about and lots of water....then car stood in field for two months.....could a short have developed from the big starter cable to block/body through all the crap on there?

Sorry I didnt reply faster,I was at the MOT with the 98 auto....one bulb and welding inside back door,over rear arch.Not as bad as I was expecting! So,off to weld then re present so I have ONE working,legal vehicle,then I will start on the head-**** 97 jap again.

I will update later,in the meantime if anyone has any more ideas they are all very,very gratefully recieved.Thanks again to all who took the time to have a think and post....and to all who continue to or begin to,etc etc.Im really lost on this one.

Thanks guys!!!

FIRST ..... put a spanner on the crankshaft pulley bolt and make SURE the engine turns smoothly and easily.

If it is TIGHT TO TURN, there's the problem.

After that it's a matter of checking all the cable connections, especially EARTHS.

CharlesY

Before this escalated the engine was turning off the crank nut much as you would expect an engine under compression to,while I was doing the valve rocker arm clearances......maybe taking out the injectors or the glow plugs would give a more consistant picture as I wouldnt be fighting compression....????Thoughts?

Thanks CharlesY.I was really hoping that it wouldnt come to this,but you are correct,this really should be the first consideration.....I was trying to kid myself that it would be anything else.Ive already got two 300 engines on the bench and I really cant manage another.I need a second vehicle that actually works as my wife and parents are seriously disabled and we live on bodmin moor.Needless to say theres no money available.Im getting to the point that if I did have any money I would PX all the discos and get something I could rely on.But what?More kdding myself.

By the way,havent done anything on this one yet as I was doing the MOT welding on the 98 model yesterday,between the downpours.Its got to be the second ugliest welding job I have ever done.All I had around was 0.6 flux core MIG wire and some paper thi steel I cut out of an old peugot 305 door I found in the barn (why I saved it I dont know).All this,working outside in the rain and the vehicles metal receding faster than my hairline led to me either not having enough power to penetrate the vehicle metal or blowing away the patch.Ended up with ugly tall welds and lots of filling of holes with more weld.....as the wheel arch below fell away in chunks.That along with the sciatica attack and the arthritic hands that dont like holding the MIG trigger down.Moan,moan ,more moan,.....

.....alll this and the prspect of ANOTHJER buggered engine....Im close to walking away from the lot and getting myself sectioned for a nice holiday.....

Oh,CharlesY....what do you suspect if the engine IS a bad turner?Bent con rods,rings,bent crank,head,valves,cam?As I have said at great self pitying length.....Im at my wits end and my logical brain functions are giving up !

shocker said:

Oh,CharlesY....what do you suspect if the engine IS a bad turner?Bent con rods,rings,bent crank,head,valves,cam?As I have said at great self pitying length.....Im at my wits end and my logical brain functions are giving up !

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Is it really stiff to turn?

It ought to be able to be turned by hand, though each compression will slow you down while it leaks off.

Do TWO full turns, and make sure (a) it turns quite easily and smoothly, and (b) that each compression feels about the same as it leaks down.

Has the engine just been re-built or is it well run in?

CharlesY

Its just the head rebuilt,the car sat for a while till I got round to it after a massive gasket blow between the middle pots with water filling both and was hence very hard to turn over as it was pumping water up and down.The block surface was thoroughly cleaned,piston rise was all equal.The head I used was one that I had rebuilt some 18 months ago by my dad that has been on the bench oiled regularly.The engine itself is the one it came to me with,Ive not had it out or done anything to it and never had any troublr til now.

It felt as you would expect turning over by hand for the valve clearances,you know,feel it compress then spanner moves with sudden ease as it exhausts.

On the first occassion of jump starting it I though I heard some clicking from the head....I put this down to a sticky valve.It had used a lot of oil first day.It does have a long standing oil leak on the back crank seal,but not that bad so I thought maybe a valve stem oil seal gone hard from sitting or rings not expanding after being wet and sitting - so I put in a bottle of "stop smoke" and this seemed to cure the oil problem.

I have been worrying that there is a problem with the head I put on,that maybe a sticking valve has caused a spring cap to come loose and get in a spring.Plus the thought that I may have trapped the back-of-head cables causing a massive short.

Having so much oil all round the engine bay doesnt help....could in theory lead to shorts anywhere.

Thanks for taking the time to reply CharlesY.....I will try to make time to look at it this afternoon and post up some results.The 98 model went through its re test yesterday,ugly welding and all.Didnt notice the massive rot in the inner rear wheel arch that I had slapped chopped fibre filler in and undersealed....naughty I know.I DO p[lan to weld a new section in ASAP but will need to sort this 97 first as I need transport at all times with the farm and the disabled family.

Spannered it round twice and it felt much as you would expect.As its stuck 20 miles away I have to find time to get out there in daylight....will try with injectors out tomorrow,needs new seating washers anyway.

shocker said:

Spannered it round twice and it felt much as you would expect.As its stuck 20 miles away I have to find time to get out there in daylight....will try with injectors out tomorrow,needs new seating washers anyway.

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Before you do anything, BLEED UP the fuel system, then try a gentle TOW START at a slow-ish speed, the pulling car in first gear, your Disco in 4th.

If the engine has been turned over several full revs by hand and compresses on all cylinders, it may start up, and just doing that may solve the problem.

If it runs, do NOT rev it up hard. Just run the engine slowly and gently until it is up to full temp, and you'll soon enough know if it is going to be OK.

Charles

Thanks CY.Is that going to work on an auto ?

shocker said:

Thanks CY.Is that going to work on an auto ?

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dont think so, but will wait for CY to reply!

shocker said:

Thanks CY.Is that going to work on an auto ?

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I sent a OOOOPS reply but it seems to have got lost.

Nope, if it's an auto it can't be tow-started. They USED to fit auxiliary oil pumps on the output shafts of autoboxes specially so that they could be tow started after a fashion, but not now.

If the huge current drain only happens when you try the starter ....

1. Is the starter itself JAMMED or seized? If it is, it will be a DEAD SHORT to the battery if it doesn't TURN. So, make sure the STARTER MOTOR isn't jammed or binding with duff bearings or whatever.

Because the starter is fed direct from the battery with a big cable, the bits that become LIVE when you turn the key to STARTER are barely two inches long, from the solenoid into the casing of the starter.

Check the starter carefully!

CharlesY