Insurance issues Springs or Air

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We used to have a modded disco 1 which which you did not take around roundabouts at speed, whereas my P38 never once felt unstable (boat like yes but not unstable :p ).
I've always thought that converting a P38 to coils effectively changes it to a Disco, but aren't they perfectly capable on them provided they're not extended springs? Are we saying that all high riding 4x4s on springs are unsafe, or is there something specific about a P38's design that makes it extra bad without the original EAS?
Is converting the L322 a thing? Because that might be cheaper than replacing the ludicrously overpriced air components! But on the P38 why wouldn't you want a cheap fairly reliable system that can allow your elderly dog into the car, and then take her along the motorway and to the off road site? :p

Don't let the wife know you called her that it may cause you problems. :D:D:D
 
lets put my head in the noose over this subject air bags v coils on p38 can you very
well versed land rover saloon bar experts explain why a disco runs coils
and is safe and p38 on coils is not when the chassis design is to all intents
the same lets leave type approval out of this i would be happy to take a p38 on
coli springs to an sva test to put this to bed once and for all come on boys bring it on
you started this i do however accept that air springs give a better ride on the road and
allow a faster drive so when you do crash the results are spectacular do people not buy the
range rover for its off road performance not for posing down the pub
 
lets put my head in the noose over this subject air bags v coils on p38 can you very
well versed land rover saloon bar experts explain why a disco runs coils
and is safe and p38 on coils is not when the chassis design is to all intents
the same lets leave type approval out of this i would be happy to take a p38 on
coli springs to an sva test to put this to bed once and for all come on boys bring it on
you started this i do however accept that air springs give a better ride on the road and
allow a faster drive so when you do crash the results are spectacular do people not buy the
range rover for its off road performance not for posing down the pub

What a first post ha ha:behindsofa::welcome:
 
lets put my head in the noose over this subject air bags v coils on p38 can you very
well versed land rover saloon bar experts explain why a disco runs coils
and is safe and p38 on coils is not when the chassis design is to all intents
the same lets leave type approval out of this i would be happy to take a p38 on
coli springs to an sva test to put this to bed once and for all come on boys bring it on
you started this i do however accept that air springs give a better ride on the road and
allow a faster drive so when you do crash the results are spectacular do people not buy the
range rover for its off road performance not for posing down the pub

Is missing the point entirely one of your favourite pastimes?
 
lets put my head in the noose over this subject air bags v coils on p38 can you very
well versed land rover saloon bar experts explain why a disco runs coils
and is safe and p38 on coils is not when the chassis design is to all intents
the same lets leave type approval out of this i would be happy to take a p38 on
coli springs to an sva test to put this to bed once and for all come on boys bring it on
you started this i do however accept that air springs give a better ride on the road and
allow a faster drive so when you do crash the results are spectacular do people not buy the
range rover for its off road performance not for posing down the pub
Dear Heriotpayne in the arse, a P38 is for posing and learning to be an electronics expert and mechanic, it's not for driving and certainly not for going off road, you should let the butler do that in your tratter.:mil90:
 
Not having that James. Dangerous car maybe not, but less safe car certainly. Early classics were atrocious at speed, Land rover added an additional anti roll bar to the rear of later versions to try and overcome the problem. The police banned them from high speed pursuit because of several rolling incidents. When EAS was introduced, a safety feature of lowering the centre of gravity over 50 MPH was introduced. Fit coils to a P38 and you remove that safety feature simple as that. There isn't a failed EAS system on the planet that can't be repaired for far less than the cost of a coil conversion in most instances. If the system is looked after it is pretty reliable.

Indeed, I had at least a couple of near rolls in my classic by driving too aggressively - the P38 is a sports car in comparison.
 
Indeed, I had at least a couple of near rolls in my classic by driving too aggressively - the P38 is a sports car in comparison.
It doesn't take much on coils - I once put an RRC on two wheels pulling into Nene Overland when they were building their new driveway, it scared the hell out of me! I never drove it like a tit again.
 
lets put my head in the noose over this subject air bags v coils on p38 can you very
well versed land rover saloon bar experts explain why a disco runs coils
and is safe and p38 on coils is not when the chassis design is to all intents
the same lets leave type approval out of this i would be happy to take a p38 on
coli springs to an sva test to put this to bed once and for all come on boys bring it on
you started this i do however accept that air springs give a better ride on the road and
allow a faster drive so when you do crash the results are spectacular do people not buy the
range rover for its off road performance not for posing down the pub

Think like others have said, you've missed the point on this.

The reason the P38 is on air to begin with is it’s a much smother ride; it handles better in every driving condition because of the use of air.
When it comes to safety the P38 was not designed on springs, so the weight distribution and anti-roll setup has not been designed to cope with out the extra support of the air bags that become progressively stiffer as they compress giving extra support under cornering.

The disco doesn’t corner anywhere near as good as the P38. The disco body is lighter and the weight distribution is different as it was designed and tested on springs. On the D2 disco they developed active anti-roll to try and improve the roll even further to make it as good as the p38 and even included air suspension on the back to help with this. (Again shows air is better)

So back to safety, to get the P38 as safe on springs as air a real engineering wiz would need to take the geometry of the P38 while its cornering under different conditions and then developed a progressive spring and damping combination to be able to provide a smooth ride but also provide cornering stability but still allowing for active damping under load, Much like land rover would of done if the chose to use springs.

As no one is that interested in doing that they just sell a spring they think will hold the weight x4.... who cares the p38 isn’t balanced over all 4 wheels.... and then let you throw it round corners.

I’ve only ever driven one on springs and it convinced me never to buy one!

Oh and incidentally the X5 (close to the L322) comes on springs and air..... The basic is on springs.... the comfort has springs up front and air on the back..... The SPORT has air all round as it’s more stable and reacts better and faster than springs.

Ok its nothing compared to the mighty P38 but it shows that even more modern cars still use air as a better option to springs.

As for you last comment. No people buy a Range Rover for the joy and ride comfort on the road and the knowledge that it WILL climb every mountain in the same comfort it handles every road. Not just for posing down the pub.
 
Agree with everything cept the ride bit - a classic on springs has a much more comfortable ride than a P38 - perhaps that's why they roll so easily!
 
Agree with everything cept the ride bit - a classic on springs has a much more comfortable ride than a P38 - perhaps that's why they roll so easily!

Don't know about later classics but the early ones were not the best handling vehicle if given some teddy on twisty roads. With worn shockers they were potential death traps. Road tests were sometimes interesting. :);)
 
Don't know about later classics but the early ones were not the best handling vehicle if given some teddy on twisty roads. With worn shockers they were potential death traps. Road tests were sometimes interesting. :);)

+1 Very interesting ride, Took one to 110 mph on the A55, my mate said it would not do over a ton. We were both biting the seat's with our bums.:D:D
 
hello all back again on the same subject must say the comments were expected
some one said a p38 on springs was not roadworthy if this is the case the insurance
industry is not aware of this as along with p38s on springs they insure vw t2 campers
retro fitted with air suspension & also american classics fitted with air kits
both the above types were fitted at manufacture with springs or torsion bars.
i have also noted that 2 large players in the landrover market sell kits of matched springs and dampers i cannot see the directors of the above firms risking there reputation and wealth.on a product that is not designed and tested to be safe.so in summery in my opinion if you fit a kit of matched parts inform your insurance company of the parts fitted and manufactures name then accept that the on road high speed dynamic capabilities will be reduced
and drive within the limits of the mods. then the original point of the question at the start of this thread will be met
if i have still missed the point then please tell me what is the point,
 
hello all back again on the same subject must say the comments were expected
some one said a p38 on springs was not roadworthy if this is the case the insurance
industry is not aware of this as along with p38s on springs they insure vw t2 campers
retro fitted with air suspension & also american classics fitted with air kits
both the above types were fitted at manufacture with springs or torsion bars.
i have also noted that 2 large players in the landrover market sell kits of matched springs and dampers i cannot see the directors of the above firms risking there reputation and wealth.on a product that is not designed and tested to be safe.so in summery in my opinion if you fit a kit of matched parts inform your insurance company of the parts fitted and manufactures name then accept that the on road high speed dynamic capabilities will be reduced
and drive within the limits of the mods. then the original point of the question at the start of this thread will be met
if i have still missed the point then please tell me what is the point,

The point was, as per title, "Insurance issues Springs or Air"

You *have* to legally notify your insurance company because it is a mod that results in the car being different to factory specs. End of.

Some insurance companies/brokers (like Adrian Flux for example) will be quite happy and not charge anything. Others will charge a fee, others will refuse to insure you at all. But you must notify them. That results in the "issues" some people have.

Nik
 
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hello all back again on the same subject must say the comments were expected
some one said a p38 on springs was not roadworthy if this is the case the insurance
industry is not aware of this as along with p38s on springs they insure vw t2 campers
retro fitted with air suspension & also american classics fitted with air kits
both the above types were fitted at manufacture with springs or torsion bars.
i have also noted that 2 large players in the landrover market sell kits of matched springs and dampers i cannot see the directors of the above firms risking there reputation and wealth.on a product that is not designed and tested to be safe.so in summery in my opinion if you fit a kit of matched parts inform your insurance company of the parts fitted and manufactures name then accept that the on road high speed dynamic capabilities will be reduced
and drive within the limits of the mods. then the original point of the question at the start of this thread will be met
if i have still missed the point then please tell me what is the point,

Again you miss the point entirely. Fitting coils to a P38 REMOVES a safety feature designed into it. A P38 on coils is NOT as stable as one on air. Simple as that, end of story.
 
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