Why wont my 200 tdi start ?

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top drive

top drive

Well-Known Member
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Peoples republic of culter
Im lost now. Done all i know.

On thursday i did 60 miles and friday i drove to work in my newly motd landy thats started every time first time for the past 6 months,

Drive to work , went out to take my colleague for a spin and it didnt start. Dash lights and heater plug lights - then turn to start position and the heater plug light goes out and the brake and rear window demist light comes on - it always did this - is that normal or am i shorting out ?

Anyway i get out and wiggle the earth and the starter feed wires.

It fired up first caw went for a spin came back went back to work came out nad drove home no issue.

Got home , click nothing.

Ive checked continuity on everything and checked for voltage everywhere , soldered on a new end to the feed to the starter from the battery and run a new main gear box - battery earth. Stripped the starter wires off and filed the surfaces shiny before putting back togther,

The key i think is that when i short out the solenoid start and feeds with a screw driver i get sparks but doesnt turn over. - solenoid or starter dead ?

Any other ideas. Im going mad.
 
Disconnect and clean where main earth cable runs from battery negative to the gearbox. Also check (and clean) connection points at engine to chassis and bulkhead to instruments.

Don't listen to your multimeter, what it reports counts for nothing when you are drawing all those amps to start. You need a very good connection for that.
 
All the big wires and earths have been cleaned with a file.

Looks like ill be fitting a new starter. 19j starter is the same right? i have a good tested one in the garage from my 19j

Easiest way to do it? Exhaust downpipe off again ?
 
Been in there also.

All wires look grand. And the ignition switch is wired in correct and is giving out the correct volts on the rigt pins.

Im gettin 12 volts on the input to the start relay and 12 v out on the red white.

Got 12 volts on the red white at the starter

I get 12 odd volts when i put volt meter from block to the starter input wiht the 3 brown wires on.
 
I know you said all the earths, but you did check the instruments to bulkhead one? I had some lights coming on faintly which was cured when I noticed there was no earth connection to the chassis!
 
You can remove the Def 200 starter without removing the downpipe, its a tight wiggle but does come out, handy tip is to fit the solenoid trigger wire before fitting the starter fully as its an arse otherwise
 
so you bridged the lil spade with the closest stud? and nothing happened?

the solenoid, when activated, kicks the bendix out and connects the two big ass studs, when the teeth are in place with the flywheel, which makes the starter spin.

so if you bridge the two big ass studs the starter should spin (though not connected to the fly, so it won't start)

if it does, then it's just the solenoid that needs replacing.

be careful you don't kill yourself :D
 
really ? the starter trigger wire was easy to fit - ive had it on and off loads last night measuring and testing.

how ever i cannot get my hand up from below to do little more than wiggle the wires. - big hands - it now looks like ive been fighting with a cat. i learned along time ago that if its easier to remove something to get access just remove it - dont fight it when you have hands the size of mine :D

removing downpipe is easy i had it off a couple weeks ago so all is lovely and free.

Will try as you say tonight trax. i know shorting the stud to the perminant hot (which has a 12.4v reading) creates sparks but no movement.

ive given it a chap with a hammer and it made no odds.


will also check the instruments to bulkhead earth as ive been in and out of the dash a fair bit the last few weeks fitting up heated screen controller / radio / speakers / clock/boost gauge and switches - so there is a good chance ive disturbed something although its odd that it did it on friday and giving the cables to the starter and the main gear box earth a wiggle solved it .... now it is deader than a can of spam regardless of what i do !

cheers for the ideas guys as like i said i know how this car went together and i know its started for 6 months no problem - somethings changed i just cannot pin point it. ive confirmed all the rest so probably easiest to at least pull the starter and bench test it with the charger.... although i did do that before i fitted it to the motor back at Xmas - although i know as well as you guys that things die for no reason ESPECIALLY on a rover :D
 
Last edited:
top drive said:
really ? the starter trigger wire was easy to fit - ive had it on and off loads last night measuring and testing.

how ever i cannot get my hand up from below to do little more than wiggle the wires. - big hands - it now looks like ive been fighting with a cat. i learned along time ago that if its easier to remove something to get access just remove it - dont fight it when you have hands the size of mine :D

removing downpipe is easy i had it off a couple weeks ago so all is lovely and free.

Will try as you say tonight trax. i know shorting the stud to the perminant hot (which has a 12.4v reading) creates sparks but no movement.

ive given it a chap with a hammer and it made no odds.


will also check the instruments to bulkhead earth as ive been in and out of the dash a fair bit the last few weeks fitting up heated screen controller / radio / speakers / clock/boost gauge and switches - so there is a good chance ive disturbed something although its odd that it did it on friday and giving the cables to the starter and the main gear box earth a wiggle solved it .... now it is deader than a can of spam regardless of what i do !
Click to expand...

easiest way of isolating the starter is jump leads. do neg to battery post, other to starter casing.

pos to the stud (but it sounds like your pos wire is fine)

then do the screwdriver short as above. lil spade to pos stud tests solenoid. big stud to other pos big stud tests motor spinning without solenoid. :)
 
top drive said:
really ? the starter trigger wire was easy to fit - ive had it on and off loads last night measuring and testing.

how ever i cannot get my hand up from below to do little more than wiggle the wires. - big hands - it now looks like ive been fighting with a cat. i learned along time ago that if its easier to remove something to get access just remove it - dont fight it when you have hands the size of mine :D

removing downpipe is easy i had it off a couple weeks ago so all is lovely and free.

Will try as you say tonight trax. i know shorting the stud to the perminant hot (which has a 12.4v reading) creates sparks but no movement.

ive given it a chap with a hammer and it made no odds.



will also check the instruments to bulkhead earth as ive been in and out of the dash a fair bit the last few weeks fitting up heated screen controller / radio / speakers / clock/boost gauge and switches - so there is a good chance ive disturbed something although its odd that it did it on friday and giving the cables to the starter and the main gear box earth a wiggle solved it .... now it is deader than a can of spam regardless of what i do !

cheers for the ideas guys as like i said i know how this car went together and i know its started for 6 months no problem - somethings changed i just cannot pin point it. ive confirmed all the rest so probably easiest to at least pull the starter and bench test it with the charger.... although i did do that before i fitted it to the motor back at Xmas - although i know as well as you guys that things die for no reason ESPECIALLY on a rover :D
Click to expand...


Well just maybe your missus telling you your dick is huge was a lie just like your hands:D
I havent got big hands at all and I cant get to the trigger wire with starter fitted.
I assume you have a defender 200 engine and not the disco lump?

Britpart starters work just fine, but they are very poorly made inside.

Ive tried starters on the bench work fine, but not on the car.
 
lynall said:
Well just maybe your missus telling you your dick is huge was a lie just like your hands:D
I havent got big hands at all and I cant get to the trigger wire with starter fitted.
I assume you have a defender 200 engine and not the disco lump?

Britpart starters work just fine, but they are very poorly made inside.

Ive tried starters on the bench work fine, but not on the car.
Click to expand...

seen someone stick some 2x2 into the cogs on the bench to see if they are good. gives it some load
 
Well i tried it your way

Anyman that says that the starter comes out without removing the (stock)exhaust on a defender 200tdi is a liar
every dimension of the dam thing is bigger than the distance between the exhaust chassis and bulkhead.

Exhaust hadto come off and be split from the mid pipe to make the space between the bulkhead and exhaust.

Curious if i hae a diffferent starter to stock.

Anyway it was the solenoid jammed solid didnt work on the bench.

New solenoid fittedan it works on bench. Not refitted it though.
Ita pishing doon
 
top drive said:
Well i tried it your way

Anyman that says that the starter comes out without removing the (stock)exhaust on a defender 200tdi is a liar
every dimension of the dam thing is bigger than the distance between the exhaust chassis and bulkhead.

Exhaust hadto come off and be split from the mid pipe to make the space between the bulkhead and exhaust.

Curious if i hae a diffferent starter to stock.

Anyway it was the solenoid jammed solid didnt work on the bench.

New solenoid fittedan it works on bench. Not refitted it though.
Ita pishing doon
Click to expand...

Ive changed mine several times now, always because full of mud, stock 1993 90 TDI.
Different makes, Bosch, valeo I think and britpart one, all without removing exhaust pipe, tight but does come out.
Last one 45 minutes start to finish, was at work and did it during my lunchbreak
 
Mines a total defender retrofit into a ninety- inc the 200tdi downpipe. Maybe my bulkheads in a different place but theres no way my bosch was coming out without the exhaust coming off. It also physically doesnt fit in any direction between the block and the chassis even with the exhaust off .Maybe its the ****part engine mounts lettign the block sit lower in the chassis or summat.

Its strange that i have easy access to the trigger wire and you do not .... And your starter comes out and mines does not .... Odd
 
top drive said:
Mines a total defender retrofit into a ninety- inc the 200tdi downpipe. Maybe my bulkheads in a different place but theres no way my bosch was coming out without the exhaust coming off. It also physically doesnt fit in any direction between the block and the chassis even with the exhaust off .Maybe its the ****part engine mounts lettign the block sit lower in the chassis or summat.

Its strange that i have easy access to the trigger wire and you do not .... And your starter comes out and mines does not .... Odd
Click to expand...

picture would do it ;)
 
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