What to do? Engine

My understanding is that the Disco 1 200TDi auto has a mechanical ZF box, and the Disco 1 300TDi has an ECU-controlled ZF auto. (I could be wrong). If that's the case, the changeover from Mech to ECU was around 1994. How old is the jag?

On a seperate point, and back to the original thread - fitting a Defender front end on a Series isn't going to buy you a whole lot of extra engine bay space. The problem you'll find is that although you can move the motor forwards a little bit, the front pulley will hit the front crossmember ... and you can't get rid of the front crossmember without changing the steering system or altering the chassis (or both) ... both of which have implications on the vehicle's identity especially if it already has a different engine, transmission and possibly front axle!

I would suggest (having just done this myself about a week ago) moving the motor forward as far as you can possibly get it, perhaps even slicing a small chunk out of the front crossmember & plating it back in as a recess to clear the engine front pulley/belt. Hack the viscous fan off the front of the jag engine (if it has one). Then chop out all the tinwork that sits behind the series front panel that holds the radiator in ... there's about 6" of wasted space there. Mount the rad as close to the motor as you can (leaving just enough room to change the fanbelt) ... then fit a slimline electric fan just in fromt of the radiator. Do all this and you'll be able to save about 9" of space in front of the motor. You'll probably have to use the jag radiator instead of the Series one, as the Series one is sized to fit behind the front crossmember rather than on top of it.

I've just accommodated a 6ft drivetrain (engine+box+rear mounted transferbox) in my 88" doing it this way, there's no way the jag engine/box combo will be that long.

This link Duckfield Engineering gives some useful background reading on ZF4HP22's in Landies.

Just had a quick look at Ashcroft's site. It looks like the "ZF4HP22" is the mechanical (non-ECU) variant, and the "ZF4HP22EH" is the ECU-controlled one. The identification plate is on the nearside of the box.

At the bottom of Ashcroft's page is how to identify whether you have the Mechanical or the ECU variant. Ashcroft Transmissions

The 4.0 Jag engine was fitted with both types of box, dependant on model & age of car.

the jag is a 1991 G plate.

thanks for all the info, its really making this scheme look like a feasible plan.

Keep us all posted if you decide to do it.

I wander how the control system in an auto box from a car would cope with being bolted into a 4x4? I think that modern auto boxes are fine tuned to suit the particular cars they are installed in - especially ECU controlled ones. I don't really know, but I suspect that it could get pretty confused when faced with different final drive ratios and especially with low ratio selected on the transfer box. Might be worth getting an expert opinion from Ian Ashcroft on that subject.

Yes - good point - Jag box would be unlikely to behave perfectly in low range I'd have thought.

However you'd still retain the option of holding down the gears manually in the 1-2-3 positions.

I think i will be going through with this at some stage, just undergoing work for MOT, replaced front shocks and sorted emissions out and typical, a day before it's retest the damn thing does a head gasket so I'll be repairing that sharpish to get it in for re-test. it will probably undergo surgery in the summer at some time, i'm just trying to gather realavent information.

Everyone's input and support has been great and i'm pretty sure it's going to go ahead. i will keep everyone updated and probably bombard with newbie questions.

I would prefer to stick to a manual box too if possible.

thanks everyone and keep me updated with any ideas etc...

I reckon it would be simpler to stick with your series axles, but on balance I think if I was going to put in an engine that powerful, then I'd probably go to the extra trouble of fitting axles off a coiler because of the extra stability, they'll work properly with permanent 4WD, and you'll score more effective brakes. If you need more info on doing that, TheSmiths88 is definitely the man to ask because he's just fitted a Disco front axle to his IIA.

I reckon the wiring and ECU etc to the jag motor will be fairly complex (especially by Series standards), and for simplicity you might just want to transfer the entire Jag loom onto the Series. That's certainly what I'm planning on doing with my donor engine/gearbox, I haven't quite got as far as the wiring yet. However - if your auto box IS an ECU-type one, you might find it quite involved to divorce the box from the engine and still get the engine to run.

On the subject of Disco/RR axles ... only attempt this if your neighbours like the sound of continuous angle grinding!

the engine should run without the box ok but the box wont without the engine.
It may be worth getting a manual ecu for it but my BMW ran fine when i changed the car to manual and thet uses the same box.
Wiring it up also shouldnt be that hard. ditch everything apart from the feed for the ecu. Thats all i had to do. i put a main ignition switch which controlled a relay to power the ecu and another relay for the fuel pump on a switch taken from the ignition feed.
so its easy to turn off if a fuel related incedent occurs!!

'ere, Tig - you fancy wiring up mine for me ... ?!

Hopefully mine will not be quite so involved, I am keeping engine and autobox and all wiring from donor. Engine not ECU'd but gearbox has WAAAAY too much wiring for my liking.

which gearbox you got mate? Is all the wiring still intact?

Tig9619 said:

which gearbox you got mate? Is all the wiring still intact?

Click to expand...

It sounds like a very interesting project he's working on there. It's a Mitsubuishi 2.5TD engine and autobox from a Shogun I think, and the meddling doesn't stop there either...

Spot on, yes it's a Mitsubishi.

Current plan is to move the wiring loom straight over from the donor, that way keeping the engine/gearbox/instruments all happy. There's going to be some stuff I can strip off in time ... eg the wiring for A/C, electric windows, flippy mirrors etc. Sadly there wasn't room to mount the A/C compressor on the engine, had to mount the alternator there instead as the alternator clouted the steering relay when I moved the engine forward. Could have been one of the first 2a's with A/C otherwise!

hope it's got more go to it than the 2.5td in my mates pajero,that is totally gutless.it's an auto too.

yeah we have a pajero 2.5 auto as our company vehicle and its pretty gutless to say the least! Tis the import model, the british 2.8 is supposed to be better but not a lot!
Manual is the way forward for these as the auto boxes on diesels sap so much good torque.

my mate wanted to go offroading in his,i told him he'd be better off with a mountain bike.

Well, gotter admit the Mitsu wasn't the fastest tool in the box. Depends though what you're comparing it with.

Get out of a modern hatchback into the Mitsu and you think "oo, this is a bit slow"
Get out of a '69 diesel 2a into the Mitsu and you think "flippin' 'eck, this is a bit quick!"

I'm not a huge advocate of putting high performance lumps into leaf sprung Landies (despite the original thread) ... the handling's just not (IMHO) up to it. I've sat in a mates 2a with a V8 at 80MPH and nearly pooped meself - that's not what I'm looking for at all. I don't want to end up snapping halfshafts at every set of traffic lights either, and I'm not able to fit a Salisbury axle.

If I end up with a dependable, everyday driver with the character of a 2a, but is automatic, easily keeps up with traffic and can tow a chunky trailer without grinding along at 20MPH I'll be more than happy. Any performance aspirations are disappearing along with my youth! At 105BHP it's only slightly down on the fabled 200TDi conversion (111BHP), and I imagine a 2a truck cab is at least somewhere in the region of 200-300Kgs lighter than the Mitsubishi.

If I said that our daily driver (up 'til we got the Disco) for the last 5 years has been a 1.9D (non-turbo, non-intercooled) Citroen ZX I think you'll see where we're coming from.

nothing wrong with a zx, bloody good cars in their time. i've had a few pugs with the same engine too.
yeah i agree that it'll prob be fine in a series due to the weight. Good luck to you mate.