Uprating Series brakes

S

SteveG

Guest

• Nov 26, 2004

• #1

Hi folks,

I'm planning to uprate the brakes on the S2a by fitting a servo. I know
the one from the S3 is a good fit but does anyone know if a Defender
unit is the same physically? I guess what I need to know is; can I bolt
a pedal box and serve from a Defender straight into the S2a?

Any ideas?

Regards
Steve G

 

J

JD

Guest

• Nov 27, 2004

• #2

SteveG wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> I'm planning to uprate the brakes on the S2a by fitting a servo. I know
> the one from the S3 is a good fit but does anyone know if a Defender
> unit is the same physically? I guess what I need to know is; can I bolt
> a pedal box and serve from a Defender straight into the S2a?
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Regards
> Steve G

Pedal box will bolt in - but you will need to do some panel modifications to
fit the M/C. Same with the late S3 servo M/C. You will need to modify the
panel between the mudguard and the bulkhead. On the S2 it is straight, but
the S3 has it cranked to provide clearance - and on the Defender it does
not exist - has inner guards instead.
JD

 

T

Tom Woods

Guest

• Nov 27, 2004

• #3

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 17:38:06 +1100, JD <[email protected]> wrote:

>SteveG wrote:
>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> I'm planning to uprate the brakes on the S2a by fitting a servo. I know
>> the one from the S3 is a good fit but does anyone know if a Defender
>> unit is the same physically? I guess what I need to know is; can I bolt
>> a pedal box and serve from a Defender straight into the S2a?
>>
>> Any ideas?
>>
>
>Pedal box will bolt in - but you will need to do some panel modifications to
>fit the M/C. Same with the late S3 servo M/C. You will need to modify the
>panel between the mudguard and the bulkhead. On the S2 it is straight, but
>the S3 has it cranked to provide clearance - and on the Defender it does
>not exist - has inner guards instead.
>JD

I fitted a S3 servo to my 2A. I also had to chop away/bend a bit of
the wing at the top as it fouled the servo (later wings with
headlights in) have a cutout already.
I also had to enlarge the hole in the top of the footwell that the
pedal goes through. the original 2A pedal only uses half the available
height. the servo pedal uses the full height. easy to chop out with a
hacksaw.

Having a servo improved the brakes slightly, but putting LWB hubs on
the front made them even better!

 

A

Austin Shackles

Guest

• Nov 27, 2004

• #4

On or around Fri, 26 Nov 2004 21:31:28 GMT, "SteveG
<\"s.goodfellow\"@blueyonder" <"dot> enlightened us thusly:

>Hi folks,
>
>I'm planning to uprate the brakes on the S2a by fitting a servo. I know
>the one from the S3 is a good fit but does anyone know if a Defender
>unit is the same physically? I guess what I need to know is; can I bolt
>a pedal box and serve from a Defender straight into the S2a?

You can also get a disc front brake conversion...

 

D

Dougal

Guest

• Nov 27, 2004

• #5

..... but putting LWB hubs on the front made them even better!

Even without a servo the LWB brake option would be my preferred choice.
It works well and is a guaranteed way to more brake torque.

The 'hub' is common, of course, only the brake parts are needed. I found
that I also needed to use the LWB master cylinder.

 

S

SteveG

Guest

• Nov 27, 2004

• #6

A nice Idea, Austin, but a bit too expensive for my liking.

Regards
Steve G

Austin Shackles wrote:

>On or around Fri, 26 Nov 2004 21:31:28 GMT, "SteveG
><\"s.goodfellow\"@blueyonder" <"dot> enlightened us thusly:
>
>
>
>>Hi folks,
>>
>>I'm planning to uprate the brakes on the S2a by fitting a servo. I know
>>the one from the S3 is a good fit but does anyone know if a Defender
>>unit is the same physically? I guess what I need to know is; can I bolt
>>a pedal box and serve from a Defender straight into the S2a?
>>
>>
>
>You can also get a disc front brake conversion...
>
>
>

 

S

SteveG

Guest

• Nov 27, 2004

• #7

Cheers JD. I don't mind a bit of metal bashing to make things fit.

Regards
Steve G


JD wrote:

>SteveG wrote:
>
>
>
>>Hi folks,
>>
>>I'm planning to uprate the brakes on the S2a by fitting a servo. I know
>>the one from the S3 is a good fit but does anyone know if a Defender
>>unit is the same physically? I guess what I need to know is; can I bolt
>>a pedal box and serve from a Defender straight into the S2a?
>>
>>Any ideas?
>>
>>Regards
>>Steve G
>>
>>
>
>Pedal box will bolt in - but you will need to do some panel modifications to
>fit the M/C. Same with the late S3 servo M/C. You will need to modify the
>panel between the mudguard and the bulkhead. On the S2 it is straight, but
>the S3 has it cranked to provide clearance - and on the Defender it does
>not exist - has inner guards instead.
>JD
>
>

 

S

SteveG

Guest

• Nov 27, 2004

• #8

Tom,

Thanks for the input. I've got the wings with lights in so hopefully
there won't be too much modification to do. I've already got LWB brakes
on the front and they do make a difference - I'm just looking to reduce
the amount of effort needed to anchor up in a hurry.

As an aside, does anyone know how to improve the braking when the
vehicle is moving backwards? You really have to stand on the pedal in
mine even at walking pace.

Regards
Steve G


Tom Woods wrote:

>On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 17:38:06 +1100, JD <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>>SteveG wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Hi folks,
>>>
>>>I'm planning to uprate the brakes on the S2a by fitting a servo. I know
>>>the one from the S3 is a good fit but does anyone know if a Defender
>>>unit is the same physically? I guess what I need to know is; can I bolt
>>>a pedal box and serve from a Defender straight into the S2a?
>>>
>>>Any ideas?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Pedal box will bolt in - but you will need to do some panel modifications to
>>fit the M/C. Same with the late S3 servo M/C. You will need to modify the
>>panel between the mudguard and the bulkhead. On the S2 it is straight, but
>>the S3 has it cranked to provide clearance - and on the Defender it does
>>not exist - has inner guards instead.
>>JD
>>
>>
>
>I fitted a S3 servo to my 2A. I also had to chop away/bend a bit of
>the wing at the top as it fouled the servo (later wings with
>headlights in) have a cutout already.
>I also had to enlarge the hole in the top of the footwell that the
>pedal goes through. the original 2A pedal only uses half the available
>height. the servo pedal uses the full height. easy to chop out with a
>hacksaw.
>
>Having a servo improved the brakes slightly, but putting LWB hubs on
>the front made them even better!
>
>

 

S

SteveG

Guest

• Nov 27, 2004

• #9

I've already put the LWB brakes on the front and it did make a
difference ... just want to reduce the effort needed to stop

Regards
Steve G


Dougal wrote:

>
> .... but putting LWB hubs on the front made them even better!
>
> Even without a servo the LWB brake option would be my preferred
> choice. It works well and is a guaranteed way to more brake torque.
>
> The 'hub' is common, of course, only the brake parts are needed. I
> found that I also needed to use the LWB master cylinder.
>

 

A

Austin Shackles

Guest

• Nov 27, 2004

• #10

On or around Sat, 27 Nov 2004 13:04:47 GMT, "SteveG
<\"s.goodfellow\"@blueyonder" <"dot> enlightened us thusly:

>A nice Idea, Austin, but a bit too expensive for my liking.
>

you could, of course, with a bit of effort, adapt a pair of 90 axles to leaf
springs.

 

M

M0bcg

Guest

• Nov 27, 2004

• #11

i fitted a remote servo on my ser2a .

a lot of people allways used to use rover 3.5 v8 P5B remote servos but whether
youd find a good one now i dont know .

there was a place selling remote servo kits but i dont remember who .

not sure if any modern cars use remote servos now or not so you could try and
use one off of another car .

i fitted my servo next to radiator on drivers side of engine bay .

fitting a series 3 servo unit would be best option if you have the time to do
it , but if you can find a remote servo that would save you removing youre
existing brake cylinder etc .

 

T

Tom Woods

Guest

• Nov 27, 2004

• #12

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 13:08:57 GMT, "SteveG
<\"s.goodfellow\"@blueyonder" <"dot> wrote:

>Tom,
>
>Thanks for the input. I've got the wings with lights in so hopefully
>there won't be too much modification to do. I've already got LWB brakes
>on the front and they do make a difference - I'm just looking to reduce
>the amount of effort needed to anchor up in a hurry.
>
>As an aside, does anyone know how to improve the braking when the
>vehicle is moving backwards? You really have to stand on the pedal in
>mine even at walking pace.
>
Mine seems alright. See how yours is after the servo is on and check
everything is adjusted properly.

 

T

Tom Woods

Guest

• Nov 27, 2004

• #13

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 14:33:11 +0000, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On or around Sat, 27 Nov 2004 13:04:47 GMT, "SteveG
><\"s.goodfellow\"@blueyonder" <"dot> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>A nice Idea, Austin, but a bit too expensive for my liking.
>>
>
>you could, of course, with a bit of effort, adapt a pair of 90 axles to leaf
>springs.

You'd have to fit them wheel arch extension thingys then too as the 90
axles are wider and the wheels will stick out.

The brakes on my landy (LWB fronts+ servo) are better than the ones on
my car (20year old saab 900 with disks all round with new pads) when
they are adjusted properly.

Disks would be nicer as theyre easier to maintain (you can clean them
off easily, and it isnt lots of hassle to adjust/maintain them), but
for effective brakes for normal on-road driving, the right set-up with
drums seems good enough - and is a lot cheaper!

 

T

Tom Woods

Guest

• Nov 27, 2004

• #14

On 27 Nov 2004 14:36:54 GMT, [email protected] (M0bcg) wrote:

>i fitted a remote servo on my ser2a .
>
>a lot of people allways used to use rover 3.5 v8 P5B remote servos but whether
>youd find a good one now i dont know .
>
>there was a place selling remote servo kits but i dont remember who .

My dad fitted a remote servo kit to his morris minor a couple of years
ago. It came from a morris specialist.
You might find a classic car specialist is a good place to find a
remote servo kit.

 

D

David_LLAMA4x4

Guest

• Nov 27, 2004

• #15

"SteveG <"s.goodfellow"@blueyonder" <"dot> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi folks,
>
> I'm planning to uprate the brakes on the S2a by fitting a servo. I know
> the one from the S3 is a good fit but does anyone know if a Defender
> unit is the same physically? I guess what I need to know is; can I bolt
> a pedal box and serve from a Defender straight into the S2a?
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Regards
> Steve G

An obvious time for me to leap in to to suggest that you buy some stainless
braid hoses from me as part of the upgrade!!
These will both improve the feel of the pedal and give sharper braking
efficiency. And they are only £11 per hose.....

David
LLAMa 4x4
www.llama4x4.co.uk

 

A

Austin Shackles

Guest

• Nov 27, 2004

• #16

On or around Sat, 27 Nov 2004 14:39:34 +0000, Tom Woods
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>>As an aside, does anyone know how to improve the braking when the
>>vehicle is moving backwards? You really have to stand on the pedal in
>>mine even at walking pace.

are we talking Series SWB brakes, here? There are various points to
consider. Early ones are 10" SLS (Single leading shoe) front and rear, and
should give the same brake performance forwards or backwards. From about
1980 (I think) they went over to 11" front brakes, the same as the LWB, and
presumably sometime acquired a servo as standard. The LWB brakes, although
bigger, are TLS, which gives better performance forwards and worse
backwards.

I spose I could explain leading shoes... a leading shoe has it's leading
edge (i.e. the first part of the lining that a point on the rotating drum
reaches) moving and it's trailing edge stationary (pivoting on the adjuster,
normally). A trailing shoe is the opposite, the pivot is at the leading
edge and the movement at the trailing edge. A leading shoe has more "bite",
and thus a TLS brake works better forwards, but of course when in reverse
it's a twin trailing shoe.

TLS brakes are more expensive, since they have 2 cylinders per wheel.

so, a later SWB or a LWB has more braking forwards and less backwards.

'bout the only thing you can do to increase the braking available (apart
from making sure that it's all in good working order) is what you're already
doing, fit a servo.

 

A

Austin Shackles

Guest

• Nov 27, 2004

• #17

On or around 27 Nov 2004 14:36:54 GMT, [email protected] (M0bcg) enlightened us
thusly:

>i fitted a remote servo on my ser2a .
>
>a lot of people allways used to use rover 3.5 v8 P5B remote servos but whether
>youd find a good one now i dont know .
>
>there was a place selling remote servo kits but i dont remember who .
>
>not sure if any modern cars use remote servos now or not so you could try and
>use one off of another car .

try a rally supplies place - they have 'em for fitting to old, non-servo
rally cars. I got one from such a place, when the rover P6 (early P6s had
remote servos too) one failed on me.

 

S

SteveG

Guest

• Nov 28, 2004

• #18

Cheers Austin. The vehicle is a 1970 LWB with 11" twin leading shoe
front brakes, hence the poor performance in reverse. I thought this
would be improved by the fitting of a servo.

Regards
SteveG


Austin Shackles wrote:

>On or around Sat, 27 Nov 2004 14:39:34 +0000, Tom Woods
><[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>
>
>>>As an aside, does anyone know how to improve the braking when the
>>>vehicle is moving backwards? You really have to stand on the pedal in
>>>mine even at walking pace.
>>>
>>>
>
>are we talking Series SWB brakes, here? There are various points to
>consider. Early ones are 10" SLS (Single leading shoe) front and rear, and
>should give the same brake performance forwards or backwards. From about
>1980 (I think) they went over to 11" front brakes, the same as the LWB, and
>presumably sometime acquired a servo as standard. The LWB brakes, although
>bigger, are TLS, which gives better performance forwards and worse
>backwards.
>
>I spose I could explain leading shoes... a leading shoe has it's leading
>edge (i.e. the first part of the lining that a point on the rotating drum
>reaches) moving and it's trailing edge stationary (pivoting on the adjuster,
>normally). A trailing shoe is the opposite, the pivot is at the leading
>edge and the movement at the trailing edge. A leading shoe has more "bite",
>and thus a TLS brake works better forwards, but of course when in reverse
>it's a twin trailing shoe.
>
>TLS brakes are more expensive, since they have 2 cylinders per wheel.
>
>so, a later SWB or a LWB has more braking forwards and less backwards.
>
>'bout the only thing you can do to increase the braking available (apart
>from making sure that it's all in good working order) is what you're already
>doing, fit a servo.
>
>
>
>

 

S

SteveG

Guest

• Nov 28, 2004

• #19

But what would I do with the spare Salisbury axle sat in the garage?

No, on second thoughts, don't answer that

Regards
SteveG

Austin Shackles wrote:

>On or around Sat, 27 Nov 2004 13:04:47 GMT, "SteveG
><\"s.goodfellow\"@blueyonder" <"dot> enlightened us thusly:
>
>
>
>>A nice Idea, Austin, but a bit too expensive for my liking.
>>
>>
>>
>
>you could, of course, with a bit of effort, adapt a pair of 90 axles to leaf
>springs.
>
>
>
>

 

S

SteveG

Guest

• Nov 28, 2004

• #20

David you are a wag ... they were already on my list of necessary bits

Regards
SteveG


David_LLAMA4x4 wrote:

>"SteveG <"s.goodfellow"@blueyonder" <"dot> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>
>>Hi folks,
>>
>>I'm planning to uprate the brakes on the S2a by fitting a servo. I know
>>the one from the S3 is a good fit but does anyone know if a Defender
>>unit is the same physically? I guess what I need to know is; can I bolt
>>a pedal box and serve from a Defender straight into the S2a?
>>
>>Any ideas?
>>
>>Regards
>>Steve G
>>
>>
>
> An obvious time for me to leap in to to suggest that you buy some stainless
>braid hoses from me as part of the upgrade!!
> These will both improve the feel of the pedal and give sharper braking
>efficiency. And they are only £11 per hose.....
>
>David
>LLAMa 4x4
> www.llama4x4.co.uk
>
>
>
>