To tweak the fuel pump and add intercooler or not??? Advice needed....

Hi all,

Defender 200Tdi

Having advanced the fuel pump (it was quite retarded) and seen the
immediate benefit (and increased diesel kocking noise!) I am left
wondering what more is possible.

Obvious solution is a bigger / more efficient intercooler, reduce
waste gate bar by 6mm and screw the diaphram down in the fuel pump.
Or just go to Twisted Performace, Allisport or the like and have them
do it properly.

Question is do they do any more than detailed above?

I know engines run on diesel and not air so Im under no mis-guidance
that a bigger intercooler will make it go better. I can however see
the benefits of cooling the air down to get denser air so that you can
burn more fuel. I guess the other option is to give even more boost?

What I cant see is this:
I have read that a bigger intercooler has the effect of reducing the
EGT. How? Surely this is completely irrelevent with regard to the
EGT as the temperature of the explosion in the pots is going to be
orders of magnitude greater than any difference in temperature on the
inlet side provided by a bigger intercooler?

So, what do other people do, and, if done properly, does doing the
modification affect engine life?

I guess at the end of the day, if engine life is not reduced and I
need to get a better intercooler I will do. However, they seem VERY
expensive for what I **think** they do.

Hopefully someone can convince me one way or the other!!

Thanks
Jon

Jon wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Defender 200Tdi
>
> Having advanced the fuel pump (it was quite retarded) and seen the
> immediate benefit (and increased diesel kocking noise!) I am left
> wondering what more is possible.
>
> Obvious solution is a bigger / more efficient intercooler, reduce
> waste gate bar by 6mm and screw the diaphram down in the fuel pump.
> Or just go to Twisted Performace, Allisport or the like and have them
> do it properly.
>
> Question is do they do any more than detailed above?
>
> I know engines run on diesel and not air so Im under no mis-guidance
> that a bigger intercooler will make it go better. I can however see
> the benefits of cooling the air down to get denser air so that you can
> burn more fuel. I guess the other option is to give even more boost?
>
> What I cant see is this:
> I have read that a bigger intercooler has the effect of reducing the
> EGT. How? Surely this is completely irrelevent with regard to the
> EGT as the temperature of the explosion in the pots is going to be
> orders of magnitude greater than any difference in temperature on the
> inlet side provided by a bigger intercooler?
>
> So, what do other people do, and, if done properly, does doing the
> modification affect engine life?
>
> I guess at the end of the day, if engine life is not reduced and I
> need to get a better intercooler I will do. However, they seem VERY
> expensive for what I **think** they do.
>
> Hopefully someone can convince me one way or the other!!
>
> Thanks
> Jon
The advantage of a cooler charge in a diesel is not the temperature of the
incoming charge so much as that the lower temperature of the incoming
charge means that the same volume of air has a greater mass, which means if
the same fuel is burnt, the exhaust temperature is lower by a lot more than
the reduction in inlet temperature. Of course, if you use the increased
mass to burn more fuel..... But the bigger intercooler usually delivers
more volume as well as cooler, because there is less resistance to flow,
thus increasing the effect.
JD

In message <[email protected]>, Jon
<[email protected]> writes
>Hi all,
>
>Defender 200Tdi
>
>Having advanced the fuel pump (it was quite retarded) and seen the
>immediate benefit (and increased diesel kocking noise!) I am left
>wondering what more is possible.
>
>Obvious solution is a bigger / more efficient intercooler, reduce
>waste gate bar by 6mm and screw the diaphram down in the fuel pump.
>Or just go to Twisted Performace, Allisport or the like and have them
>do it properly.
>
>Question is do they do any more than detailed above?
>
>I know engines run on diesel and not air so Im under no mis-guidance
>that a bigger intercooler will make it go better. I can however see
>the benefits of cooling the air down to get denser air so that you can
>burn more fuel. I guess the other option is to give even more boost?
>
>What I cant see is this:
>I have read that a bigger intercooler has the effect of reducing the
>EGT. How? Surely this is completely irrelevent with regard to the
>EGT as the temperature of the explosion in the pots is going to be
>orders of magnitude greater than any difference in temperature on the
>inlet side provided by a bigger intercooler?
>
>So, what do other people do, and, if done properly, does doing the
>modification affect engine life?
>
>I guess at the end of the day, if engine life is not reduced and I
>need to get a better intercooler I will do. However, they seem VERY
>expensive for what I **think** they do.
>
>Hopefully someone can convince me one way or the other!!
>
>Thanks
>Jon


Take it to some one who know what they are doing. !!!!

"reduce the waste gate bar by 6mm" ????? use a boost gauge then you know
exactly what is going on.

Get it done properly and you will have a much better car.
--
Marc Draper

....which means if
>the same fuel is burnt, the exhaust temperature is lower by a lot more than
>the reduction in inlet temperature.

So I'm guessing that its almost an exponential relationship between
air in and EGT when all other variables are kept constant.

This then explains why bigger / more efficient intercoolers are
required to stop your head / valves burning away.

That poses another question...

If tweaking the fuel pump and boost combined with new intercooler will
allow for more power whilst still keeping the EGT within tolerable
levels, how do you know if youv'e over-egged it and taken the EGT
outside of those tolerable levels, thus affecting the longevity of the
engine???

Do the people like Twisted Performance, Allisport, Allard etc check
EGT, Boost etc etc and setup correctly or simply assume that an engine
is setup up in a standard way and adjust all vehicles the same? This
must be the way they get DIY'ers to install them as most dont have
spare boost or EGT gauges...do they?

In a nutshell, is a DIY option a realistic / reliable one. Can I
really adjust my engine like one of the specialist companies can?

Thanks
Jon

On Tue, 2 Aug 2005 18:19:32 +0100, Marc Draper
<[email protected]> wrote:

>In message <[email protected]>, Jon
><[email protected]> writes
>>Hi all,
>>
>>Defender 200Tdi
>>
>>Having advanced the fuel pump (it was quite retarded) and seen the
>>immediate benefit (and increased diesel kocking noise!) I am left
>>wondering what more is possible.
>>
>>Obvious solution is a bigger / more efficient intercooler, reduce
>>waste gate bar by 6mm and screw the diaphram down in the fuel pump.
>>Or just go to Twisted Performace, Allisport or the like and have them
>>do it properly.
>>
>>Question is do they do any more than detailed above?
>>
>>I know engines run on diesel and not air so Im under no mis-guidance
>>that a bigger intercooler will make it go better. I can however see
>>the benefits of cooling the air down to get denser air so that you can
>>burn more fuel. I guess the other option is to give even more boost?
>>
>>What I cant see is this:
>>I have read that a bigger intercooler has the effect of reducing the
>>EGT. How? Surely this is completely irrelevent with regard to the
>>EGT as the temperature of the explosion in the pots is going to be
>>orders of magnitude greater than any difference in temperature on the
>>inlet side provided by a bigger intercooler?
>>
>>So, what do other people do, and, if done properly, does doing the
>>modification affect engine life?
>>
>>I guess at the end of the day, if engine life is not reduced and I
>>need to get a better intercooler I will do. However, they seem VERY
>>expensive for what I **think** they do.
>>
>>Hopefully someone can convince me one way or the other!!
>>
>>Thanks
>>Jon
>
>
>Take it to some one who know what they are doing. !!!!
>
>"reduce the waste gate bar by 6mm" ????? use a boost gauge then you know
>exactly what is going on.
>
>Get it done properly and you will have a much better car.

This is pretty much what I was thinking. I just dont like lining the
pockets of others if I dont need to!

Thanks
Jon

JD wrote:

> The advantage of a cooler charge in a diesel is not the temperature of the
> incoming charge so much as that the lower temperature of the incoming
> charge means that the same volume of air has a greater mass, which means if
> the same fuel is burnt, the exhaust temperature is lower by a lot more than
> the reduction in inlet temperature. Of course, if you use the increased
> mass to burn more fuel..... But the bigger intercooler usually delivers
> more volume as well as cooler, because there is less resistance to flow,
> thus increasing the effect.
> JD

I see what you mean, but how does it translate into higher efficiency if
the Delta-T FALLS ?

Steve

>
>I see what you mean, but how does it translate into higher efficiency if
>the Delta-T FALLS ?
>
>Steve

What is Delta-T ??? Change in Temp perhaps?

Is it time to dig out my old thermodynacics text books?!?!

Jon

Jon wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Aug 2005 18:19:32 +0100, Marc Draper
> <[email protected]> wrote:

>>Get it done properly and you will have a much better car.
>
>
> This is pretty much what I was thinking. I just dont like lining the
> pockets of others if I dont need to!

Yes, but with a lot of care and the purchase of some instrumentation,
you could do it. You need a boost pressure monitor, and an EGT sensor
for a start. And a light touch...

Steve

Time to go to someone that knows exactly what they are doing I think
and, like Marc said "get it done properly"!

Thanks all,
Jon


On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 10:55:25 +0100, Steve Taylor
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Jon wrote:
>> On Tue, 2 Aug 2005 18:19:32 +0100, Marc Draper
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>>Get it done properly and you will have a much better car.
>>
>>
>> This is pretty much what I was thinking. I just dont like lining the
>> pockets of others if I dont need to!
>
>Yes, but with a lot of care and the purchase of some instrumentation,
>you could do it. You need a boost pressure monitor, and an EGT sensor
>for a start. And a light touch...
>
>Steve