Swivels

S

Simon Atkinson

Guest

• Nov 27, 2004

• #1

Not gratuitous abuse...

Just thought I'd check the oil in the swivels in the SIII - at the MOT
it failed on a bit of play in the swivel pins, so the chap fixed that
(took out a shim or ten) and topped up the oil etc.

Except the tosser didn't top up the oil. Now I've got play again in
the swivels. I was a bit suspicious about the fact the swivels weren't
leaking - now I know why.

Just filled em up (after wiping the rust off the inside of the filler
plugs) and of course it's pouring out again nearly as quick as I can
pour it in.

Paddocks do a swivel kit for under 60 quid (Swivel housing kit (later
type with steering arm on the bottom - from mid 1960's) - consists of
swivel housing (chrome ball), kingpin/bracket, railko/washer, bottom
bearing, lock tabs/shims, swivel seal and all gaskets.) that looks like
it contains all that is needed.
Now the million dollar question - how much of a git are they to fit?
Done most jobs on a Landy, from engine changes to chassis re-animation,
but never done a set of swivels. At a glance, it doesn't look like too
terrible a job... He says hopefully.

 

T

Tom Woods

Guest

• Nov 27, 2004

• #2

On 27 Nov 2004 11:25:12 GMT, "Simon Atkinson" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Now the million dollar question - how much of a git are they to fit?
>Done most jobs on a Landy, from engine changes to chassis re-animation,
>but never done a set of swivels. At a glance, it doesn't look like too
>terrible a job... He says hopefully.

I didnt find them too bad. The hardest bit is removing the bolts that
hold on the old swivels (get your grinder ready, and make sure you
have new nuts and bolts waiting to put back in)

Setting the preload properly is also fiddly and a bit of a pain if you
have to keep taking out and putting back in shims. Not hard though.
I ended up just setting mine to when they felt right to me, and its
worked pretty well so far!

 

P

Peter Seddon

Guest

• Nov 27, 2004

• #3

"Tom Woods" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 27 Nov 2004 11:25:12 GMT, "Simon Atkinson" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Now the million dollar question - how much of a git are they to fit?
>>Done most jobs on a Landy, from engine changes to chassis re-animation,
>>but never done a set of swivels. At a glance, it doesn't look like too
>>terrible a job... He says hopefully.
>
> I didnt find them too bad. The hardest bit is removing the bolts that
> hold on the old swivels (get your grinder ready, and make sure you
> have new nuts and bolts waiting to put back in)
>
> Setting the preload properly is also fiddly and a bit of a pain if you
> have to keep taking out and putting back in shims. Not hard though.
> I ended up just setting mine to when they felt right to me, and its
> worked pretty well so far!

Did mine on a 96 Disco and ditto the above. Only bit that was a pain was not
having a large enough socket to fit the hub nut!!!

Peter.

 

S

Simon Atkinson

Guest

• Nov 27, 2004

• #4

Peter Seddon wrote:

>
> "Tom Woods" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > On 27 Nov 2004 11:25:12 GMT, "Simon Atkinson" <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Now the million dollar question - how much of a git are they to
> > > fit? Done most jobs on a Landy, from engine changes to chassis
> > > re-animation, but never done a set of swivels. At a glance, it
> > > doesn't look like too terrible a job... He says hopefully.
> >
> > I didnt find them too bad. The hardest bit is removing the bolts
> > that hold on the old swivels (get your grinder ready, and make sure
> > you have new nuts and bolts waiting to put back in)
> >
> > Setting the preload properly is also fiddly and a bit of a pain if
> > you have to keep taking out and putting back in shims. Not hard
> > though. I ended up just setting mine to when they felt right to
> > me, and its worked pretty well so far!
>
> Did mine on a 96 Disco and ditto the above. Only bit that was a pain
> was not having a large enough socket to fit the hub nut!!!

Cheers Chaps...

<girds loins and prepares to brave the cold>... Perhaps it can wait
until spring eh?

 

T

Tom Woods

Guest

• Nov 27, 2004

• #5

On 27 Nov 2004 13:45:47 GMT, "Simon Atkinson" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Peter Seddon wrote:
>
>>
>> "Tom Woods" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > On 27 Nov 2004 11:25:12 GMT, "Simon Atkinson" <[email protected]>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > Now the million dollar question - how much of a git are they to
>> > > fit? Done most jobs on a Landy, from engine changes to chassis
>> > > re-animation, but never done a set of swivels. At a glance, it
>> > > doesn't look like too terrible a job... He says hopefully.
>> >
>> > I didnt find them too bad. The hardest bit is removing the bolts
>> > that hold on the old swivels (get your grinder ready, and make sure
>> > you have new nuts and bolts waiting to put back in)
>> >
>> > Setting the preload properly is also fiddly and a bit of a pain if
>> > you have to keep taking out and putting back in shims. Not hard
>> > though. I ended up just setting mine to when they felt right to
>> > me, and its worked pretty well so far!
>>
>> Did mine on a 96 Disco and ditto the above. Only bit that was a pain
>> was not having a large enough socket to fit the hub nut!!!
>
>Cheers Chaps...
>
><girds loins and prepares to brave the cold>... Perhaps it can wait
>until spring eh?

If youre gonna do it this winter, then the next couple of days would
look to be a pretty good time to choose. The sun even came out here
today!

 

D

Derry Argue

Guest

• Nov 27, 2004

• #6

Tom Woods <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> The hardest bit is removing the bolts that
> hold on the old swivels (get your grinder ready, and make
> sure you have new nuts and bolts waiting to put back in)
>
>

I'm no expert but I've done the swivels on two D90's now and the
handbook says those bolts are put in with Locktight.

On the first D90, I cut the whole swivel housing off with a
grinder because they were f*cked anyway.

On the second, I assumed the bolts were Locktighted so I put the
propane torch on the bolts to heat them up and they came out as
easily as anything.

Derry

 

S

Simon Atkinson

Guest

• Nov 27, 2004

• #7

Derry Argue wrote:

> Tom Woods <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> > The hardest bit is removing the bolts that
> > hold on the old swivels (get your grinder ready, and make
> > sure you have new nuts and bolts waiting to put back in)
> >
> >
>
> I'm no expert but I've done the swivels on two D90's now and the
> handbook says those bolts are put in with Locktight.
>
> On the first D90, I cut the whole swivel housing off with a
> grinder because they were f*cked anyway.
>
> On the second, I assumed the bolts were Locktighted so I put the
> propane torch on the bolts to heat them up and they came out as
> easily as anything.

I'm quite a fan of heat if bolts don't shock loose fairly readily.

Cheers.

 

S

Simon Atkinson

Guest

• Nov 27, 2004

• #8

Tom Woods wrote:

> If youre gonna do it this winter, then the next couple of days would
> look to be a pretty good time to choose. The sun even came out here
> today!

Shame Paddocks didn't realise that and send me the bits before I've
even ordered them!

 

M

Mike Buckley

Guest

• Nov 28, 2004

• #9

Simon Atkinson <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Tom Woods wrote:
>
> > If youre gonna do it this winter, then the next couple of days would
> > look to be a pretty good time to choose. The sun even came out here
> > today!
>
> Shame Paddocks didn't realise that and send me the bits before I've
> even ordered them!
>
Look here http://www.landroverclub.net/Club/HTML/Maintechnic.htm - lots of
good advice and worth bookmarking.

Do a Google Advanced Groups Search for lots of advice on changing swivels.

Have fun - oh, and use one-shot grease - - - - - - -

Regs, Mike.

 

S

Simon Atkinson

Guest

• Nov 28, 2004

• #10

Mike Buckley wrote:

>
> Simon Atkinson <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Tom Woods wrote:
> >
> > > If youre gonna do it this winter, then the next couple of days
> > > would look to be a pretty good time to choose. The sun even came
> > > out here today!
> >
> > Shame Paddocks didn't realise that and send me the bits before I've
> > even ordered them!
> >
> Look here http://www.landroverclub.net/Club/HTML/Maintechnic.htm -
> lots of good advice and worth bookmarking.
>
> Do a Google Advanced Groups Search for lots of advice on changing
> swivels.
>
> Have fun - oh, and use one-shot grease - - - - - - -

Erm - I thought the one-shot grease was only for the later CV jointed
vehicles. The series has a UJ onside the swivel and a Railko bush on
the top - not a bearing. Will the grease work to lube that bush? If
so I probably don't need to change the housings (or the oil seal even).

 

S

Simon Atkinson

Guest

• Nov 28, 2004

• #11

Mr.Nice. wrote:

> On 28 Nov 2004 21:07:50 GMT, "Simon Atkinson" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Mike Buckley wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Simon Atkinson <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> news:[email protected]...
> >> > Tom Woods wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > If youre gonna do it this winter, then the next couple of days
> >> > > would look to be a pretty good time to choose. The sun even
> came >> > > out here today!
> >> >
> >> > Shame Paddocks didn't realise that and send me the bits before
> I've >> > even ordered them!
> >> >
> >> Look here http://www.landroverclub.net/Club/HTML/Maintechnic.htm -
> >> lots of good advice and worth bookmarking.
> >>
> >> Do a Google Advanced Groups Search for lots of advice on changing
> >> swivels.
> >>
> >> Have fun - oh, and use one-shot grease - - - - - - -
> >
> > Erm - I thought the one-shot grease was only for the later CV
> > jointed vehicles. The series has a UJ onside the swivel and a
> > Railko bush on the top - not a bearing. Will the grease work to
> > lube that bush? If so I probably don't need to change the housings
> > (or the oil seal even).
> >
>
> there was much debate about that here recently as I didn't know if my
> 1984 110 had the Railko bush thing in which would mean I had to use
> EP90. in the end I shoved the grease in on the assumption that it
> changed in design with the 110 as it's permenant 4WD.

The 110 is much the same as the RR and Disco - bearings top and bottom
and a CV joint rather than a Hardy-Spicer joint inside the swivel.

I'd love to use the grease in the SIII, but I'm sure it wont reach the
parts that the oil will.

 

T

TVS

Guest

• Nov 28, 2004

• #12

> > >> Have fun - oh, and use one-shot grease - - - - - - -
> > >
> > > Erm - I thought the one-shot grease was only for the later CV
> > > jointed vehicles. The series has a UJ onside the swivel and a
> > > Railko bush on the top - not a bearing. Will the grease work to
> > > lube that bush? If so I probably don't need to change the housings
> > > (or the oil seal even).
> > >
> >
> > there was much debate about that here recently as I didn't know if my
> > 1984 110 had the Railko bush thing in which would mean I had to use
> > EP90. in the end I shoved the grease in on the assumption that it
> > changed in design with the 110 as it's permenant 4WD.
>
> The 110 is much the same as the RR and Disco - bearings top and bottom
> and a CV joint rather than a Hardy-Spicer joint inside the swivel.
>
> I'd love to use the grease in the SIII, but I'm sure it wont reach the
> parts that the oil will.

Well... I've not used that one shot grease but I have mixed normal grease
with EP90 to make a very thick, but still runny, gooey stuff. Add the EP90
to the grease and blend (prefribly with a food mixer) untill you've got the
mix about right. Its runny enought to get all around the top bush but not
thin enought to get passed the swivel seal. Just wait till you have the
house to your self!!
Toby

 

E

EMB

Guest

• Nov 29, 2004

• #13

TVS wrote:

> Well... I've not used that one shot grease but I have mixed normal grease
> with EP90 to make a very thick, but still runny, gooey stuff. Add the EP90
> to the grease and blend (prefribly with a food mixer) untill you've got the
> mix about right. Its runny enought to get all around the top bush but not
> thin enought to get passed the swivel seal. Just wait till you have the
> house to your self!!

Pennzoil make a semi-fluid grease that's absolutely magic for this (and
doesn't lead to divorce). It's also damn good in slightly leaky Lada
steering boxes.

--
EMB

 

S

Simon Atkinson

Guest

• Nov 29, 2004

• #14

EMB wrote:

> TVS wrote:
>
> > Well... I've not used that one shot grease but I have mixed normal
> > grease with EP90 to make a very thick, but still runny, gooey
> > stuff. Add the EP90 to the grease and blend (prefribly with a food
> > mixer) untill you've got the mix about right. Its runny enought to
> > get all around the top bush but not thin enought to get passed the
> > swivel seal. Just wait till you have the house to your self!!
>
> Pennzoil make a semi-fluid grease that's absolutely magic for this
> (and doesn't lead to divorce). It's also damn good in slightly leaky
> Lada steering boxes.

I must admit I was considering using a 'sloppy' mix of Lithium grease
and SAE 140 gear oil.

 

M

Mike Buckley

Guest

• Nov 29, 2004

• #15

Simon Atkinson <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > >>
> > >> Have fun - oh, and use one-shot grease - - - - - - -
> > >
> > > Erm - I thought the one-shot grease was only for the later CV
> > > jointed vehicles. The series has a UJ onside the swivel and a
> > > Railko bush on the top - not a bearing. Will the grease work to
> > > lube that bush? If so I probably don't need to change the housings
> > > (or the oil seal even).
> > >
> >
> > there was much debate about that here recently as I didn't know if my
> > 1984 110 had the Railko bush thing in which would mean I had to use
> > EP90. in the end I shoved the grease in on the assumption that it
> > changed in design with the 110 as it's permenant 4WD.
>
> The 110 is much the same as the RR and Disco - bearings top and bottom
> and a CV joint rather than a Hardy-Spicer joint inside the swivel.
>
> I'd love to use the grease in the SIII, but I'm sure it wont reach the
> parts that the oil will.

Well, the 110 I had up untill a year or so back had railkos - and I used
one-shot with no apparant ill-effects over some 30k miles - - - - -

From debate here some time ago, I understand the stuff is a special grease
which is (iirc) "thixotropic" - that apprantly means it becomes liquid when
agitated. Like non-drip paint.

If you;'re going to all the trouble of stripping the thing down to change
the swivs I'd have thought it was best to change the seals at the same time?

Later 110's had bearings top and bottom - mine was F reg / 89.

Regs, Mike.

 

S

Simon Atkinson

Guest

• Nov 29, 2004

• #16

Mike Buckley wrote:

>
> Simon Atkinson <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > > > >
> > > >> Have fun - oh, and use one-shot grease - - - - - - -
> > > >
> > > > Erm - I thought the one-shot grease was only for the later CV
> > > > jointed vehicles. The series has a UJ onside the swivel and a
> > > > Railko bush on the top - not a bearing. Will the grease work to
> > > > lube that bush? If so I probably don't need to change the
> > > > housings (or the oil seal even).
> > > >
> > >
> > > there was much debate about that here recently as I didn't know
> > > if my 1984 110 had the Railko bush thing in which would mean I
> > > had to use EP90. in the end I shoved the grease in on the
> > > assumption that it changed in design with the 110 as it's
> > > permenant 4WD.
> >
> > The 110 is much the same as the RR and Disco - bearings top and
> > bottom and a CV joint rather than a Hardy-Spicer joint inside the
> > swivel.
> >
> > I'd love to use the grease in the SIII, but I'm sure it wont reach
> > the parts that the oil will.
>
> Well, the 110 I had up untill a year or so back had railkos - and I
> used one-shot with no apparant ill-effects over some 30k miles - - -
> - -
>
> From debate here some time ago, I understand the stuff is a special
> grease which is (iirc) "thixotropic" - that apprantly means it
> becomes liquid when agitated. Like non-drip paint.
>
> If you;'re going to all the trouble of stripping the thing down to
> change the swivs I'd have thought it was best to change the seals at
> the same time?

Oh yes - the plan is to get the kit from Paddock for under 60 quid a
side - inludes Railko, shims, seals, housing - the lot.

> Later 110's had bearings top and bottom - mine was F reg / 89.

I didn't realise the earlier 110's still had the railko bush.