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dale hammond

Guest
i have been sent a summons to court for a vehicle i sold in aug 2003 i
informed dvla of the new owner at the time but they have no record of it the
new owner has not registered the vehicle as i know he was going to restore
it taking his time the only details i have of the new owner were on the
portion of the log book i sent to dvla
in my defence i can get witness statements from work mates and bosses and
family and friends that i did sell the vehicle about this time has any one
else had any experiance like this and know the best way forward will witness
statements be enought


 
dale hammond wrote:
> i have been sent a summons to court for a vehicle i sold in aug 2003 i
> informed dvla of the new owner at the time but they have no record of it the
> new owner has not registered the vehicle as i know he was going to restore
> it taking his time the only details i have of the new owner were on the
> portion of the log book i sent to dvla
> in my defence i can get witness statements from work mates and bosses and
> family and friends that i did sell the vehicle about this time has any one
> else had any experiance like this and know the best way forward will witness
> statements be enought
>
>
DVLA are b__stards on this. They denied recieving four(4) separate pices
of paper, all detailing the change of ownershiop of a car I bought. Then
they tried to do me for no tax!!! Cue mailstorm over three months,
culminating in the whole thing 'going away', when the origonal owner,
me, and a friend who's a solicitor got together and wrote a 'legalese'
complaint/threat . Best thing to do is to get all the info you can,
approximate dates for dposting, and mailing it to them explaining what
happened(mail them an obvious copy), andf they should sort it out.
They're not intentionally evil, it just seems that way :0)

`Mark
 
Mark wrote:

> DVLA are b__stards on this. They denied recieving four(4) separate pices
> of paper, all detailing the change of ownershiop of a car I bought. Then
> they tried to do me for no tax!!! Cue mailstorm over three months,
> culminating in the whole thing 'going away', when the origonal owner,
> me, and a friend who's a solicitor got together and wrote a 'legalese'
> complaint/threat . Best thing to do is to get all the info you can,
> approximate dates for dposting, and mailing it to them explaining what
> happened(mail them an obvious copy), andf they should sort it out.
> They're not intentionally evil, it just seems that way :0)
>
> `Mark

Another useful little "practice" I've learnt, to let them (or anyone
else) know you mean business, is to put a CC at the bottom of the
letter to a solicitor - real or imaginary:

copy to: Lambert, Faulkes and ****ting

something like that!


--
Regards,
Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
http://www.dannyscoffee.com (UK advert for my mobile espresso service)
http://www.malabargold.co.uk (UK/European online ordering for Malabar
Gold blend)
swap Z for above characters in email address to reply

 
On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 00:45:55 +0000 (UTC), dale hammond wrote:

> i have been sent a summons to court for a vehicle i sold in aug 2003
> i informed dvla of the new owner at the time but they have no record
> of it ...

Did the DVLA send you any notification that they had received your
orginal comminication, I guess not. When I told DVLA about the
transfer of ownership of my last car to the insurance company late
last year I got a letter from 'em telling me that I was no longer
recorded keeper and that I had no further legal resposibilty for that
vehicle and to keep the letter...

> the new owner has not registered the vehicle as i know he was going
> to restore it taking his time

How long has the SORN being inforce? Longer than 2003 I think, so he
should be sending that bit in each year.

> the only details i have of the new owner were on the portion of the
> log book i sent to dvla

Oh dear can't you remember anything about him/her. I have a sneaky
feeling that the DVLA are bit like HMC&E if there is doubt you carry
the can unless you have pretty good evidence otherwise. I guess you
used ordinary letter post for the V5 to DVLA rather than recorded
delivery as well so you have no "proof of posting".

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



 
On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 00:45:55 +0000 (UTC), "dale hammond"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>i have been sent a summons to court for a vehicle i sold in aug 2003 i
>informed dvla of the new owner at the time but they have no record of it the
>new owner has not registered the vehicle as i know he was going to restore
>it taking his time the only details i have of the new owner were on the
>portion of the log book i sent to dvla
>in my defence i can get witness statements from work mates and bosses and
>family and friends that i did sell the vehicle about this time has any one
>else had any experiance like this and know the best way forward will witness
>statements be enought

What sort of court summons have you had?.

I'd have thought that since it has been 18 months since you sold it
you should by now have recieved at least one tax renewal notice, or
notice of a fine for not sorning it.

Theyve attempted to fine me for not sorning things (after they messed
up and kept returning my sorn forms).
I bought a car, and got the sorn fine letter about 4 months later - so
they move fairly quicly and you should not have heard absolutely
nothing for 18 months.

for my run-in i wrote them a letter back with all the evidence i had
(dated letters from them in my case), and they wrote me a 'we have
decided not to pursue your fine' letter a few weeks later.

You should always get proof of posting for any dealing you have with
the DVLA. That is enough to show them that you have posted the
required info off to them (even though the proof of posting doesnt say
anything about the ltter contents)

 
On Monday, in article
<[email protected]>
[email protected] "Dave Liquorice" wrote:

> > the only details i have of the new owner were on the portion of the
> > log book i sent to dvla
>
> Oh dear can't you remember anything about him/her. I have a sneaky
> feeling that the DVLA are bit like HMC&E if there is doubt you carry
> the can unless you have pretty good evidence otherwise. I guess you
> used ordinary letter post for the V5 to DVLA rather than recorded
> delivery as well so you have no "proof of posting".

I've just been through the triennial medical renewal on my driving
licence, and, while it's all come through, it's taken a while to sort
out, even allowing for Christmas delays. It always does.

But DVLA doesn't cope well with anything out of the ordinary -- the form
might ask for dates of appointments "within the last six months", the
hospital has re-timed an appointment, and letters start to shuttle back
and forth.

It's not just DVLA -- some of the offices I dealt with as a farmer were
the same -- DEFRA have even published lists of non-working email
addresses to be used to contact them.

Anyway, recorded delivery doesn't prove what was in the letter. Keep
copies of everything.

--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.

"I am Number Two," said Penfold. "You are Number Six."
 
On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 00:45:55 +0000 (UTC), "dale hammond"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>i have been sent a summons to court for a vehicle i sold in aug 2003 i
>informed dvla of the new owner at the time but they have no record of it

For the extra 65p or so, I'd always suggest sending all such
notifications via Recorded Delivery.

So far as your current situation, simply write to the Court, deny the
offence, give the reasons, ask for a trial. Send this by Recorded
Delivery, if you like, Counter Claim for the cost of the additional
65p postage (legit costs, really). You'll probably see the case
dropped and you'll then be invited to attend to see through your
Counter Claim...

 
On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 09:42:15 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
<[email protected]> made me spill my meths when he wrote:

>When I told DVLA about the
>transfer of ownership of my last car to the insurance company late
>last year I got a letter from 'em telling me that I was no longer
>recorded keeper and that I had no further legal resposibilty for that
>vehicle and to keep the letter...

Likewise here. I initially thought what a waste of paper and
resources, I get them every time I SORN as well. Now I realise how
useful it actually is, it appears that it is to protect you from them.


--

Wayne Davies, Harrogate 07989 556213

Just another point of view...
www.4x4prejudice.org
 
When I got rid of my last car I never filled in any paperwork and I had no
idea who the guy was who took it off my hands,

Fortunately I discovered on the RAC site that the registration is still
current so I suppose someone must have registered a change owner

--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes


"dale hammond" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> i have been sent a summons to court for a vehicle i sold in aug 2003 i
> informed dvla of the new owner at the time but they have no record of it
the
> new owner has not registered the vehicle as i know he was going to restore
> it taking his time the only details i have of the new owner were on the
> portion of the log book i sent to dvla
> in my defence i can get witness statements from work mates and bosses and
> family and friends that i did sell the vehicle about this time has any one
> else had any experiance like this and know the best way forward will
witness
> statements be enought
>
>


 
Maybe it's still registered to you.

In which case, if it's used in the commission of a crime, or nabbed on a
tax disc/insurance camera then you'll be liable for the
fines/points/prison :-(

Regards

Steve G



Larry wrote:
> When I got rid of my last car I never filled in any paperwork and I had no
> idea who the guy was who took it off my hands,
>
> Fortunately I discovered on the RAC site that the registration is still
> current so I suppose someone must have registered a change owner
>
 
On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 23:25:13 GMT, "SteveG
<\"s.goodfellow\"@blueyonder" <"dot> wrote:

>Maybe it's still registered to you.

Unlikely I'd have thought...

>In which case, if it's used in the commission of a crime, or nabbed on a
>tax disc/insurance camera then you'll be liable for the
>fines/points/prison :-(

This is not necessarily the case at all. There are now statutory
obligations to notify the change of keeper (note, 'keeper', the
registration document makes no mention of 'owner'), however a common
denfence is "I sent it off then forgot about it. Must have got lost
in the post". This is impossilbe to disprove and therefore a highly
reliable defence.

The police aren't stupid, in the case of a vehicle being used in the
course of an offence they'll easily tell, when they come around to see
you, whether or not you got rid of the vehicle as you claim :)

 
On or around Wed, 23 Feb 2005 15:28:43 +0000, Mother <"@ {m} @"@101fc.net>
enlightened us thusly:

>This is not necessarily the case at all. There are now statutory
>obligations to notify the change of keeper (note, 'keeper', the
>registration document makes no mention of 'owner'), however a common
>denfence is "I sent it off then forgot about it. Must have got lost
>in the post". This is impossilbe to disprove and therefore a highly
>reliable defence.

and, indeed, is what we'd mostly all do anyway. I don't concern myself with
what happens after I post the document off.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"There is plenty of time to win this game, and to thrash the Spaniards
too" Sir Francis Drake (1540? - 1596) Attr. saying when the Armarda was
sighted, 20th July 1588
 
Larry didn't say how long ago he'd sold the vehicle so maybe the RFL
isn't due yet. On the whole though, I think you're right.

The point I was trying to make was that it is risky to assume that the
buyer will send off the V5 to DVLA and that under current legislation
the person named as the registered keeper is responsible for ensuring
that it is "properly registered and licensed". The current V5C document
states "The Registered Keeper will continue to be liable for the vehicle
until DVLA is informed of the keeper change".

Regards

Steve G



MVP wrote:

>
> surely if it was still registered to him then he'll have been
> recieving the road tax notices?
>
>
> Regards.
> Mark.(AKA, Mr.Nice.)
 

Mother wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 23:25:13 GMT, "SteveG
> <\"s.goodfellow\"@blueyonder" <"dot> wrote:
>
>
>>Maybe it's still registered to you.
>
>
> Unlikely I'd have thought...
>
SG: But not impossible

>
>>In which case, if it's used in the commission of a crime, or nabbed on a
>>tax disc/insurance camera then you'll be liable for the
>>fines/points/prison :-(
>
>
> This is not necessarily the case at all. There are now statutory
> obligations to notify the change of keeper (note, 'keeper', the
> registration document makes no mention of 'owner'), however a common
> denfence is "I sent it off then forgot about it. Must have got lost
> in the post". This is impossilbe to disprove and therefore a highly
> reliable defence.
>
SG: I never mentioned ownership. The V5 only relates to the registered
keeper of a vehicle. Current legislation makes the keeper responsible
for notifying DVLA of changes not the owner.

> The police aren't stupid, in the case of a vehicle being used in the
> course of an offence they'll easily tell, when they come around to see
> you, whether or not you got rid of the vehicle as you claim :)
>
SG: You're right, the Police aren't stupid ... which is why telling them
the documentation must have got lost in the post is unlikely to be taken
at face value. They may eventually be convinced to believe you but the
initial suspicion will fall on you ... it's easier than solving a real
cime after all :)

My son px'd an old Montego for a Mondeo at a garage in Bristol some
years ago. The garage bloke said he'd deal with the DVLA side of things
and everything was fine until 15 months later when he got a summons
through the post. The Montego had been caught in a road tax camera in
Yeovil and they were demanding the back tax plus a fine. He contested
the charge and was visited by a couple of Bristol's finest (?) to take a
statement. They were very sceptical about his story even though I was
able to corroborate it (maybe that's why they were doubtful) and it was
only when he was able to locate the receipt he got from the garage that
they believed him. Fortunately, both DVLA and HM Customs & Excise then
took much more interest in the garage concerned than my lad, who got a
bollocking from some Inspector but nothing more. The garage owner did time.

Regards

Steve G

 
SteveG <"s.goodfellow"@blueyonder dot> wrote:

> The point I was trying to make was that it is risky to assume that the
> buyer will send off the V5 to DVLA and that under current legislation
> the person named as the registered keeper is responsible for ensuring
> that it is "properly registered and licensed". The current V5C document
> states "The Registered Keeper will continue to be liable for the vehicle
> until DVLA is informed of the keeper change".

The current NZ system is that the buyer is responsible for "Change of
Ownership" (equivalent to the V5). However the official line is that
you don't part with the vehicle until proof of the change having been
made is provided to you. As the change can be done at any Post Office
and many WOF (=MOT) testing stations, or eeven online now it's not too
arduous.

There's also a disposal form the seller can post off notifying the
change, but in typical beauracratic style they seem to file these in the
bin without looking at them, and anyway once you've sighted the transfer
receipt it's pretty irrelevant.

http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/vehicle-ownership/dont-get-stung.html

--
EMB
 
I did send off a letter to the DVLA some time later when I got the notice to
retax it, that I no longer had it and that to the best of my knowlege it was
being kept off road somewhere. I never herd from them after that.


--
þT

L'autisme c'est moi

"Space folds, and folded space bends, and bent folded space contracts and
expands unevenly in every way unconcievable except to someone who does not
believe in the laws of mathematics"





"Mother" <"@ {m} @"@101fc.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 23:25:13 GMT, "SteveG
> <\"s.goodfellow\"@blueyonder" <"dot> wrote:
>

> This is not necessarily the case at all. There are now statutory
> obligations to notify the change of keeper (note, 'keeper', the
> registration document makes no mention of 'owner'), however a common
> denfence is "I sent it off then forgot about it. Must have got lost
> in the post". This is impossilbe to disprove and therefore a highly
> reliable defence.
>
> The police aren't stupid, in the case of a vehicle being used in the
> course of an offence they'll easily tell, when they come around to see
> you, whether or not you got rid of the vehicle as you claim :)
>


 
Got rid of it in June 02 and got a reminder to tax it the following month,
as I got rid of it just before the tax ran out.

I wrote to them saying I did not know who now had it, and I have not had any
reminders since so I presume someone else has taxed it since.


--
þT

L'autisme c'est moi

"Space folds, and folded space bends, and bent folded space contracts and
expands unevenly in every way unconcievable except to someone who does not
believe in the laws of mathematics"




"SteveG <"s.goodfellow"@blueyonder" <"dot> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Larry didn't say how long ago he'd sold the vehicle so maybe the RFL
> isn't due yet. On the whole though, I think you're right.
>
> The point I was trying to make was that it is risky to assume that the
> buyer will send off the V5 to DVLA and that under current legislation
> the person named as the registered keeper is responsible for ensuring
> that it is "properly registered and licensed". The current V5C document
> states "The Registered Keeper will continue to be liable for the vehicle
> until DVLA is informed of the keeper change".
>
> Regards
>
> Steve G
>
>
>
> MVP wrote:
>


 
Hi Larry, seems quite likely that the new owner did indeed notify DVLA
of the change but I'd be a bit more careful in the future. You might not
be so lucky next time :)

Regards

Steve G



Larry wrote:
> Got rid of it in June 02 and got a reminder to tax it the following month,
> as I got rid of it just before the tax ran out.
>
> I wrote to them saying I did not know who now had it, and I have not had any
> reminders since so I presume someone else has taxed it since.
>
>
 
On Wednesday, in article
<[email protected]>
"@{m}@"@101fc.net "Mother" wrote:

> On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 23:25:13 GMT, "SteveG
> <\"s.goodfellow\"@blueyonder" <"dot> wrote:
>
> >Maybe it's still registered to you.
>
> Unlikely I'd have thought...
>
> >In which case, if it's used in the commission of a crime, or nabbed on a
> >tax disc/insurance camera then you'll be liable for the
> >fines/points/prison :-(
>
> This is not necessarily the case at all. There are now statutory
> obligations to notify the change of keeper (note, 'keeper', the
> registration document makes no mention of 'owner'), however a common
> denfence is "I sent it off then forgot about it. Must have got lost
> in the post". This is impossilbe to disprove and therefore a highly
> reliable defence.
>
> The police aren't stupid, in the case of a vehicle being used in the
> course of an offence they'll easily tell, when they come around to see
> you, whether or not you got rid of the vehicle as you claim :)

We had a vehicle which was an insurance write-off after a minor
collision -- it doesn't take much on these modern things with no chassis
when they get a bit of age to sap the value -- which was disposed of via
the insurance company.

The numberplate popped up in connection with some sort of fraud/theft on
the south coast.

My brother's similarly dead car popped up on a speed camera down London
way. (The insurance were going to fix it until they noticed the engine
had acquired a crack, as well as the front grille getting shoved in.
Maybe somebody had a good engine from a rear-ended vehicle, but they
didn't do the paperwork right if they did.)

There's a lot of fake plates about.



--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.

"I am Number Two," said Penfold. "You are Number Six."
 
Incedentally just got my new style registration document through the post
today, now where did I put it ?



--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes


"SteveG <"s.goodfellow"@blueyonder" <"dot> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi Larry, seems quite likely that the new owner did indeed notify DVLA
> of the change but I'd be a bit more careful in the future. You might not
> be so lucky next time :)
>
> Regards
>
> Steve G
>
>
>


 
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