Rigid Back End

M

Mark Williamson

Guest

• Mar 6, 2005

• #1

Ok, sounds painful, and when I hit the bumps it is!!

It's an early 88in Series 3, and the back end seems extremely harsh.

It's ok hitting a bump, but 'dropping' off anything is really nasty.

It looks to me as though the shocks are at full extension, which I'm sure
can't be right when the vehicle is resting.

Trying to rock her gets movement in the tyres, but not the suspension,
either up or down. It seems as though the back end is pre stressed.

Before I pop the shocks off and see if it is any better (just a short round
the block slow speed test) Can anyone advice how long the shocks should be
when fully extended, and how long they should be with the vehicle resting
empty?

That way I can have a reasonable guess as to whether this is my problem.

I would hate to buy new shocks to find them exactly the same as the old
ones.

 

W

Warwick Barnes

Guest

• Mar 6, 2005

• #2

got this effect when we fitted gas shocks to SWB.
otherwise I expect springs have rusted up siezed, going to try Motor
cycle chain lube on one of ours if the world ever dries out around here
and lets us get on with it.

The message <[email protected]>
from "Mark Williamson" <[email protected]> contains these words:

> Ok, sounds painful, and when I hit the bumps it is!!

> It's an early 88in Series 3, and the back end seems extremely harsh.

> It's ok hitting a bump, but 'dropping' off anything is really nasty.

> It looks to me as though the shocks are at full extension, which I'm sure
> can't be right when the vehicle is resting.

> Trying to rock her gets movement in the tyres, but not the suspension,
> either up or down. It seems as though the back end is pre stressed.

> Before I pop the shocks off and see if it is any better (just a short round
> the block slow speed test) Can anyone advice how long the shocks
> should be
> when fully extended, and how long they should be with the vehicle resting
> empty?

> That way I can have a reasonable guess as to whether this is my problem.

> I would hate to buy new shocks to find them exactly the same as the old
> ones.

 

J

jc

Guest

• Mar 7, 2005

• #3

Mark Williamson wrote:

<snip>
>
> Before I pop the shocks off and see if it is any better (just a short
> round
> the block slow speed test)

Anything other than new greased springs give little difference shocks/no
shocks on a vaguely smooth road

Can anyone advice how long the shocks should
> be when fully extended, and how long they should be with the vehicle
> resting empty?

IIRC it's in the manual
--

regards

jc

LEGAL - I don't believe what I wrote and neither should you. Sobriety and/or
sanity of the author is not guaranteed

EMAIL - [email protected] and [email protected] are not valid email
addresses. news2x at perentie is valid for a while.

 

M

Mark Williamson

Guest

• Mar 7, 2005

• #4

Well I jacked it up on the chassis today and sure enough the road wheels
lifted straight off with no give at all.

Giving them a good kick extended them downwards slightly so it appears that
the springs have seized.

I have found the various arguments fro and agains lubricating the leaves,
but as it is i have to do something because it simply isn't fun to drive.
Going to be an occasional toy so periods of standing for a bit then driving.
Suspect if it was an every day vehicle the problem would not have arisen.

Two questions:

1. How to free up seized springs (safely)

2. Suggested Lube products and how to apply?

My thoughts for the first are to get the ramps out and try deliberately
cross axling her either way, to get things moving, guess i will apply
whichever lube whilst cross axled is that opens the leaves up a bit.

Any better ideas??

MW


"jc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mark Williamson wrote:
>
> <snip>
>>
>> Before I pop the shocks off and see if it is any better (just a short
>> round
>> the block slow speed test)
>
> Anything other than new greased springs give little difference shocks/no
> shocks on a vaguely smooth road
>
> Can anyone advice how long the shocks should
>> be when fully extended, and how long they should be with the vehicle
>> resting empty?
>
> IIRC it's in the manual
> --
>
> regards
>
> jc
>
> LEGAL - I don't believe what I wrote and neither should you. Sobriety
> and/or
> sanity of the author is not guaranteed
>
> EMAIL - [email protected] and [email protected] are not valid email
> addresses. news2x at perentie is valid for a while.

 

A

Austin Shackles

Guest

• Mar 7, 2005

• #5

On or around Mon, 7 Mar 2005 18:12:22 +0000 (UTC), "Mark Williamson"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>My thoughts for the first are to get the ramps out and try deliberately
>cross axling her either way, to get things moving, guess i will apply
>whichever lube whilst cross axled is that opens the leaves up a bit.
>
>Any better ideas??

you won't like it...

take the springs off, strip them down, clean, grease and re-assemble.

about the only way to really achieve results, I suspect. do 'em one at a
time, obviously.

Greasing the springs will make the operate much more freely, and may show up
that your dampers are no good - a stiff leaf spring has tons of
self-damping.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Nessun maggior dolore che ricordarsi del tempo felice nella miseria"
- Dante Alighieri (1265 - 1321) from Divina Commedia 'Inferno'

 

P

Paul - xxx

Guest

• Mar 7, 2005

• #6

Austin Shackles composed the following;:
> On or around Mon, 7 Mar 2005 18:12:22 +0000 (UTC), "Mark Williamson"
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>> My thoughts for the first are to get the ramps out and try deliberately
>> cross axling her either way, to get things moving, guess i will apply
>> whichever lube whilst cross axled is that opens the leaves up a bit.
>>
>> Any better ideas??
>
> you won't like it...
>
> take the springs off, strip them down, clean, grease and re-assemble.
>
> about the only way to really achieve results, I suspect. do 'em one at a
> time, obviously.

Or, for the price, it might just be time to get new springs and dampers ....

> Greasing the springs will make the operate much more freely, and may show
> up that your dampers are no good - a stiff leaf spring has tons of
> self-damping.

Heheheh, BTDTGTTS.

It's even worse when it's the fronts that are seized ... there's even less
positive steering than usual, and we know how positive that can be ..

--
Paul ...
www.4x4prejudice.org
(8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!

 

D

David G. Bell

Guest

• Mar 7, 2005

• #7

On Monday, in article <[email protected]>
[email protected] "Mark Williamson" wrote:

> Well I jacked it up on the chassis today and sure enough the road wheels
> lifted straight off with no give at all.
>
> Giving them a good kick extended them downwards slightly so it appears that
> the springs have seized.
>
> I have found the various arguments fro and agains lubricating the leaves,
> but as it is i have to do something because it simply isn't fun to drive.
> Going to be an occasional toy so periods of standing for a bit then driving.
> Suspect if it was an every day vehicle the problem would not have arisen.
>
> Two questions:
>
> 1. How to free up seized springs (safely)
>
> 2. Suggested Lube products and how to apply?
>
> My thoughts for the first are to get the ramps out and try deliberately
> cross axling her either way, to get things moving, guess i will apply
> whichever lube whilst cross axled is that opens the leaves up a bit.
>
> Any better ideas??

You've got two conflicting needs. Something to stop it rusting, and
something which doesn't make dust stick and act as an abrasive.

Graphited penetrating oil might be as good as anything readily
available. I used to get it from the local John Deere dealer, aerosol
cans. The graphite gives some lubrication when the oil itself has
mostly evaporated.

Whatever you use, you need some way to get the springs working. Got
anything heavy you can put in the back? Any local builder who'd let you
carry a few bags of sand or cement to a site, for instance? Though the
price it is at a proper builders' merchant, you could buy your own.

Take measurements before you start. Then you'll have a chance of seeing
of anything is happening.

Before you start applying lube, get off as much dirt and rust as you
can.


--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.

"I am Number Two," said Penfold. "You are Number Six."

 

A

Austin Shackles

Guest

• Mar 7, 2005

• #8

On or around Mon, 7 Mar 2005 18:28:18 -0000, "Paul - xxx"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>Or, for the price, it might just be time to get new springs and dampers ....

well, yeah. lot easier. still worth lubing them, evenso. and having done
so, put gaiters on them to stop them crudding up.

either that or splash out on some parabolics.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankind; and
therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee"
John Donne (1571? - 1631) Devotions, XVII

 

G

George Spigot

Guest

• Mar 9, 2005

• #9

My first LR was a S3 that had stood for a long time.
When I got it road worthy I took it round the block and nearly lost my
fillings, the springs were solid.
I sprayed them with wd40 and old engine oil and took it off roading,
later the springs were slack and the suspension was working.
Never had a problem after that

--
Jon

 

M

Mark Williamson

Guest

• Mar 12, 2005

• #10

Thanks all for your advice.

Austin you are of course correct, but i dodn't have the time to do it
properly, so it was the oil spray, and then bounce it around off road.

Definetly an improvement. Sadly, i'll have to do more off road work in it
to see if there is further improvement. Oh drat!

MW


""David G. Bell"" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Monday, in article <[email protected]>
> [email protected] "Mark Williamson" wrote:
>
>> Well I jacked it up on the chassis today and sure enough the road wheels
>> lifted straight off with no give at all.
>>
>> Giving them a good kick extended them downwards slightly so it appears
>> that
>> the springs have seized.
>>
>> I have found the various arguments fro and agains lubricating the leaves,
>> but as it is i have to do something because it simply isn't fun to drive.
>> Going to be an occasional toy so periods of standing for a bit then
>> driving.
>> Suspect if it was an every day vehicle the problem would not have arisen.
>>
>> Two questions:
>>
>> 1. How to free up seized springs (safely)
>>
>> 2. Suggested Lube products and how to apply?
>>
>> My thoughts for the first are to get the ramps out and try deliberately
>> cross axling her either way, to get things moving, guess i will apply
>> whichever lube whilst cross axled is that opens the leaves up a bit.
>>
>> Any better ideas??
>
> You've got two conflicting needs. Something to stop it rusting, and
> something which doesn't make dust stick and act as an abrasive.
>
> Graphited penetrating oil might be as good as anything readily
> available. I used to get it from the local John Deere dealer, aerosol
> cans. The graphite gives some lubrication when the oil itself has
> mostly evaporated.
>
> Whatever you use, you need some way to get the springs working. Got
> anything heavy you can put in the back? Any local builder who'd let you
> carry a few bags of sand or cement to a site, for instance? Though the
> price it is at a proper builders' merchant, you could buy your own.
>
> Take measurements before you start. Then you'll have a chance of seeing
> of anything is happening.
>
> Before you start applying lube, get off as much dirt and rust as you
> can.
>
>
> --
> David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.
>
> "I am Number Two," said Penfold. "You are Number Six."