Perhaps LR Should Look At This?

A market waiting for them....... like the one they had!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4777293.stm

Richard

--

beamendsltd wrote:

> A market waiting for them....... like the one they had!
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4777293.stm
>
> Richard

i.e. before they started to ignore:

"They are basic vehicles that are there to do a job.

"Customers don't want complicated electronics. If it's being sent to
an area where they are not used to electronics systems then they may
not know how to repair it.

"Given the conditions they'll being used in - dirt, dust, bogs -
they're designed for as little to be able to go wrong as possible."

In article <[email protected]>,
Dougal <DougalAThiskennel.free-online.co.uk> wrote:
>beamendsltd wrote:
>
>> A market waiting for them....... like the one they had!
>>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4777293.stm
>>
>> Richard
>
>i.e. before they started to ignore:
>
>"They are basic vehicles that are there to do a job.
>
>"Customers don't want complicated electronics. If it's being sent to
>an area where they are not used to electronics systems then they may
>not know how to repair it.
>
>"Given the conditions they'll being used in - dirt, dust, bogs -
>they're designed for as little to be able to go wrong as possible."

'cept that market went over to the Landcruiser long before L-R
started refining things. Toyota had pretty well won the Africa
market (including UN & NGO markets) back in the L-R Series III
days. Remember a family friend who was involved in stuff UN-related
in (IIRC) East Africa commenting that they never used Landys
anymore, only Landcruisers - and that must have been '78 or so
at the latest.

--
Andy Breen ~ Not speaking on behalf of the University of Wales, Aberystwyth
Feng Shui: an ancient oriental art for extracting
money from the gullible (Martin Sinclair)

On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 15:55:35 +0100, Dougal
<DougalAThiskennel.free-online.co.uk> wrote:

>beamendsltd wrote:
>
>> A market waiting for them....... like the one they had!
>>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4777293.stm
>>
>> Richard
>
>i.e. before they started to ignore:
>
>"They are basic vehicles that are there to do a job.
>
>"Customers don't want complicated electronics. If it's being sent to
>an area where they are not used to electronics systems then they may
>not know how to repair it.
>

I've got one of those, it's called a Series Landrover

Alex

In message <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Andrew Robert Breen) wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>,
> Dougal <DougalAThiskennel.free-online.co.uk> wrote:
> >beamendsltd wrote:
> >
> >> A market waiting for them....... like the one they had!
> >>
> >> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4777293.stm
> >>
> >> Richard
> >
> >i.e. before they started to ignore:
> >
> >"They are basic vehicles that are there to do a job.
> >
> >"Customers don't want complicated electronics. If it's being sent to
> >an area where they are not used to electronics systems then they may
> >not know how to repair it.
> >
> >"Given the conditions they'll being used in - dirt, dust, bogs -
> >they're designed for as little to be able to go wrong as possible."
>
> 'cept that market went over to the Landcruiser long before L-R
> started refining things. Toyota had pretty well won the Africa
> market (including UN & NGO markets) back in the L-R Series III
> days. Remember a family friend who was involved in stuff UN-related
> in (IIRC) East Africa commenting that they never used Landys
> anymore, only Landcruisers - and that must have been '78 or so
> at the latest.
>

LR's market to NGO's etc collapsed in the early 80's - nothing to
do with the vehicles though - Maggie scrapped a subsidy/tax break
that used to be given on them, while others didn't, pricing
then out of the market.

Many NGO's and, particulary, small charities would much rather
use LR's (the windscreens don't pop out for a start), but the
spares distribution has now collapsed and and/or become very
expensive, while some Governments still effectively subsidise
their own manuafcturers by giving "conditional aid" (see
the doumentary about the father and son who set out to help
the Sudanese railways for examples of the stupidity that that
results in).
Also, we are the only country daft enough to worry about "ethical"
sales, hence several large Defender contracts have gone out of
the window in the name of political corectness - leaving
the gate wide open for the competition, not one of whom
seem to have any concerns over such matters. Being ethical is
fine, but if you are the only ones worrying about it you just
end up looking (and being) stupid. Once again we've shot
ourselves in the foot by playing to the rules while others don't.

Non-electronic 300Tdi, and even 2.5 petrol Defenders are/were
until very recently still available for export only to specific
markets, but LR don't seem to have made any real effort in that
direction (probably in anticiptation of having the contract
cancelled by the Government anyway), preferring the luxury
market - which is strange for a cash-strapped company -
the aid/NGO market would be a lot cheaper to design for, surely?

The global spares problem was supposed to be sorted out by Ford
using the Catapillar parts network (which is truly global), but
that doesn't seem to have gone quite to plan - even in the UK!

The trouble is that LR have now lost their "rugged and basic"
image, and gaining a reputaion takes years - destroying it
takes minutes.

Ho hum!

Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
RISC-OS - Where have all the good guys gone?
Lib Dems - Townies keeping comedy alive

On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 16:03:18 +0100, Andrew Robert Breen <[email protected]>
wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>,
> Dougal <DougalAThiskennel.free-online.co.uk> wrote:
>> beamendsltd wrote:
>>
>>> A market waiting for them....... like the one they had!
>>>
>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4777293.stm
>>
>> i.e. before they started to ignore:
>>
>> "They are basic vehicles that are there to do a job.
>>
>> "Customers don't want complicated electronics. If it's being sent to
>> an area where they are not used to electronics systems then they may
>> not know how to repair it.
>>
>> "Given the conditions they'll being used in - dirt, dust, bogs -
>> they're designed for as little to be able to go wrong as possible."
>
> 'cept that market went over to the Landcruiser long before L-R
> started refining things. Toyota had pretty well won the Africa
> market (including UN & NGO markets) back in the L-R Series III
> days.

Seems odd - the Nissan Patrol appears to be much more rugged than the
Toyota offerings



--
William Tasso

Land Rover - 110 V8
Discovery - V8

"William Tasso" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
> On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 16:03:18 +0100, Andrew Robert Breen <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> Dougal <DougalAThiskennel.free-online.co.uk> wrote:
>>> beamendsltd wrote:
>>>
>>>> A market waiting for them....... like the one they had!
>>>>
>>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4777293.stm
>>>
>>> i.e. before they started to ignore:
>>>
>>> "They are basic vehicles that are there to do a job.
>>>
>>> "Customers don't want complicated electronics. If it's being sent to
>>> an area where they are not used to electronics systems then they may
>>> not know how to repair it.
>>>
>>> "Given the conditions they'll being used in - dirt, dust, bogs -
>>> they're designed for as little to be able to go wrong as possible."
>>
>> 'cept that market went over to the Landcruiser long before L-R
>> started refining things. Toyota had pretty well won the Africa
>> market (including UN & NGO markets) back in the L-R Series III
>> days.
>
> Seems odd - the Nissan Patrol appears to be much more rugged than the
> Toyota offerings
>
>

Hardly! The 105 Land Cruiser with live axles all round is much better built
than the Nissan. Not that the Nissan is poorly built.
For the record, I have currently a 110 Defender, a two year old Range Rover
and, my daily work vehicle, a Land Cruiser 100 series 4.2 [Amazon in the
UK]. Also have others which are not relevant here. In over 100,000 hard
miles with frequent towing, the LC has had a sum of one wheel bearing, an
air-con belt and two rear bulbs fail. The Range Rover [which does not tow]
has had zero, yes absolutely no problems whatsoever in nearly 30,000 mildish
miles so far, not counting a few dented panels on both.

IMO Land Rover just have not had the product at the right price to sell
against those basic Land Cruisers. No-one in their right mind would choose a
Defender if given a choice of it or a Patrol or Land Cruiser. Most
organisations pay more for those vehicles than a Defender would cost them.
It is an easy choice. The LR Defender is as cramped and basic as it ever was
in Series II form. It just doesn't cut the mustard as a vehicle of choice
anywhere but the UK any more. The sooner LR face up to this then the sooner
they can start producing a competitive vehicle again, assuming they haven't
long given up as seems to be the case. The '07 Defender is just taking the
**** IMO.

Huw

"beamendsltd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:33cf6a584e%[email protected]...
> In message <[email protected]>
> [email protected] (Andrew Robert Breen) wrote:
>
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> Dougal <DougalAThiskennel.free-online.co.uk> wrote:
>> >beamendsltd wrote:
>> >
>> >> A market waiting for them....... like the one they had!
>> >>
>> >> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4777293.stm
>> >>
>> >> Richard
>> >
>> >i.e. before they started to ignore:
>> >
>> >"They are basic vehicles that are there to do a job.
>> >
>> >"Customers don't want complicated electronics. If it's being sent to
>> >an area where they are not used to electronics systems then they may
>> >not know how to repair it.
>> >
>> >"Given the conditions they'll being used in - dirt, dust, bogs -
>> >they're designed for as little to be able to go wrong as possible."
>>
>> 'cept that market went over to the Landcruiser long before L-R
>> started refining things. Toyota had pretty well won the Africa
>> market (including UN & NGO markets) back in the L-R Series III
>> days. Remember a family friend who was involved in stuff UN-related
>> in (IIRC) East Africa commenting that they never used Landys
>> anymore, only Landcruisers - and that must have been '78 or so
>> at the latest.
>>
>
> LR's market to NGO's etc collapsed in the early 80's - nothing to
> do with the vehicles though - Maggie scrapped a subsidy/tax break
> that used to be given on them, while others didn't, pricing
> then out of the market.
>
> Many NGO's and, particulary, small charities would much rather
> use LR's (the windscreens don't pop out for a start), but the
> spares distribution has now collapsed and and/or become very
> expensive, while some Governments still effectively subsidise
> their own manuafcturers by giving "conditional aid" (see
> the doumentary about the father and son who set out to help
> the Sudanese railways for examples of the stupidity that that
> results in).
> Also, we are the only country daft enough to worry about "ethical"
> sales, hence several large Defender contracts have gone out of
> the window in the name of political corectness - leaving
> the gate wide open for the competition, not one of whom
> seem to have any concerns over such matters. Being ethical is
> fine, but if you are the only ones worrying about it you just
> end up looking (and being) stupid. Once again we've shot
> ourselves in the foot by playing to the rules while others don't.
>
> Non-electronic 300Tdi, and even 2.5 petrol Defenders are/were
> until very recently still available for export only to specific
> markets, but LR don't seem to have made any real effort in that
> direction (probably in anticiptation of having the contract
> cancelled by the Government anyway), preferring the luxury
> market - which is strange for a cash-strapped company -
> the aid/NGO market would be a lot cheaper to design for, surely?
>
> The global spares problem was supposed to be sorted out by Ford
> using the Catapillar parts network (which is truly global), but
> that doesn't seem to have gone quite to plan - even in the UK!
>
> The trouble is that LR have now lost their "rugged and basic"
> image, and gaining a reputaion takes years - destroying it
> takes minutes.
>
> Ho hum!
>
> Richard
>
> --
I'm in agreement Richard in the unlikely event I was going out into the
bush I would be looking at the Santana rather than a TD5 defender .
Derek

In message <[email protected]>
"William Tasso" <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 16:03:18 +0100, Andrew Robert Breen <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > Dougal <DougalAThiskennel.free-online.co.uk> wrote:
> >> beamendsltd wrote:
> >>
> >>> A market waiting for them....... like the one they had!
> >>>
> >>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4777293.stm
> >>
> >> i.e. before they started to ignore:
> >>
> >> "They are basic vehicles that are there to do a job.
> >>
> >> "Customers don't want complicated electronics. If it's being sent to
> >> an area where they are not used to electronics systems then they may
> >> not know how to repair it.
> >>
> >> "Given the conditions they'll being used in - dirt, dust, bogs -
> >> they're designed for as little to be able to go wrong as possible."
> >
> > 'cept that market went over to the Landcruiser long before L-R
> > started refining things. Toyota had pretty well won the Africa
> > market (including UN & NGO markets) back in the L-R Series III
> > days.
>
> Seems odd - the Nissan Patrol appears to be much more rugged than the
> Toyota offerings
>

While that may well be true, but the early Patrols (the ones that
looked remakably like hearses) were massive vehicles[1], but with a tiny
cabin space. You do see an awful lot of them in UN colours on the
telly though, so someone must like them ;-)

Richard

[1] they used to have the slang name "HGV" - Heavy, Gross, Vehicle

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
RISC-OS - Where have all the good guys gone?
Lib Dems - Townies keeping comedy alive

On or around Fri, 18 Aug 2006 23:33:25 GMT, "Derek"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

> I'm in agreement Richard in the unlikely event I was going out into the
>bush I would be looking at the Santana rather than a TD5 defender .
>Derek
>

interestingly, if you find the link I put to Santana's website, the PS10 is
available in euro II or euro III spec. I imagine the euro II one still uses
a mechanical injection pump.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"The great masses of the people ... will more easily fall victims to
a great lie than to a small one" Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
from Mein Kampf, Ch 10

On or around Fri, 18 Aug 2006 23:59:05 +0100, "Huw"
<hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:

>The LR Defender is as cramped and basic as it ever was
>in Series II form.

having said that, I find as a 6'-and-a-bit fat bastard, the SIII is
surprisingly comfortable for what it is. It's not saloon car comfort and
I'd not want to do 600 mile sin a day in it, but I don't find it a problem
driving for 2 hours at a stretch, for example, and generally, despite comfy
seats and the like, I prefer to get out for a leg-stretch and walk around
about that often in most motors.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Appearances: You don't really need make-up. Celebrate your authentic
face by frightening people in the street.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.

Austin Shackles wrote:

> having said that, I find as a 6'-and-a-bit fat bastard, the SIII is
> surprisingly comfortable for what it is. It's not saloon car comfort and
> I'd not want to do 600 mile sin a day in it,

I've got a 600+ mile trip in my SIIa coming up. For some reason SWMBO
has booked a flight for herself though.


--
EMB

EMB wrote:
> Austin Shackles wrote:
>
>> having said that, I find as a 6'-and-a-bit fat bastard, the SIII is
>> surprisingly comfortable for what it is. It's not saloon car comfort and
>> I'd not want to do 600 mile sin a day in it,
>
> I've got a 600+ mile trip in my SIIa coming up. For some reason SWMBO
> has booked a flight for herself though.
>
>
Funny thing, that. She clearly is the smarter one

--
Karen (ducks & runs)

And thanks to Tam at aus.bicycle for the cool new nick

"Sometimes I think I have a Guardian Idiot - a little invisible spirit just
behind my shoulder, looking out for me ... only he's an imbecile" - Jake Stonebender

Duracell Bunny wrote:
> EMB wrote:
>
>> Austin Shackles wrote:
>>
>>> having said that, I find as a 6'-and-a-bit fat bastard, the SIII is
>>> surprisingly comfortable for what it is. It's not saloon car comfort
>>> and I'd not want to do 600 miles in a day in it,
>>>
>>
>> I've got a 600+ mile trip in my SIIa coming up. For some reason SWMBO
>> has booked a flight for herself though.
>>
>>
> Funny thing, that. She clearly is the smarter one
>
.... but may end up spending more time hanging around airports and
still arrive second at the destination.