P38 EAS issues airloss/self selecting height/height hunting

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DanClarke said:
Having read this post (purely for interest's sake) I am so thankful that (so far) I have not encountered an EAS problem on either of the two P38's I have owned. It just works.
While it seems a very sensible approach to adaptable height suspension it clearly has a few Achilles heel's. However, there's no way I would go to springs, no matter what.
I am praying to all of the gods that I never have to go through the pain @P38Rover has been through.
Click to expand...

Its been a really tough decision to even consider going back. But so far I am still forging ahead with high hopes and good spirits.. When I was undergoing the switch from coils back to EAS, I had thought that since everything was OEM and brand new that I wouldnt have so many issues that Ive read about..

But being so committed now with so much time and money, and now knowing what the EAS can feel like VS the crude coils.. I have to say that I really want to keep it this way...But I realllllllly dont see myself buying a new valve block either; I think that is where the line is drawn :D.

Wish me luck...or just donate to me bit of yours please
 
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P38Rover said:
Yes, you advised me many times in this thread and others that you do not believe it is the NRV's in my situation. So I went with it and tried everything else first. But symptoms remain.... and I am running out of things to replace so I figured, why not? It certainly wont make things worse.. And I dont even want to think about buying a new valve block...I think Id rather sadly just get some coils if it comes to that....

Thanks for all the help and replies again
Click to expand...

I explained what each NRVs function was. Your car was rising whilst switched off, i said that can only be down to the inlet valve leaking high pressure air from tank into the solenoid gallery and forcing past the front solenoid valves. This was proved correct judging by the state of the solenoid valve on removal. That problem is now hopefully solved. NRV 3 is designed to prevent high pressure air from the filling/exhaust gallery entering the solenoid gallery whilst the compressor is running. It and the exhaust valve leaking will have exactly the same effect as a leaking inlet valve but with the ignition switched on and the compressor active.
 
Datatek said:
I doubt the NRV's are the problem. If the corner control valves are good the car cannot rise except when the ECU commands it, you have already posted pictures of worn seals on the inlet valves. I'm more inclined to think that you still have problems with the control valves or even the driver pack.
A secondhand valve block can be purchased on Ebay for not a lot as can driver packs, so swapping over would eliminate one or the other or both.
Click to expand...

I actually have a second valve block and a drive pack.. and I have been considering rebuilding it and using it for diagnosis. Do you have a recommendation for a oring rebuild kit that is of known good quality? I also have suspicions that my oring kit was rubbish; just like my diaphragm was..
 
wammers said:
I explained what each NRVs function was. Your car was rising whilst switched off, i said that can only be down to the inlet valve leaking high pressure air from tank into the solenoid gallery and forcing past the front solenoid valves. This was proved correct judging by the state of the solenoid valve on removal. That problem is now hopefully solved. NRV 3 is designed to prevent high pressure air from the filling/exhaust gallery entering the solenoid gallery whilst the compressor is running. It and the exhaust valve leaking will have exactly the same effect as a leaking inlet valve but with the ignition switched on and the compressor active.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the confirmation. I had figured that the exhaust valve was extra unhappy because I had swapped that over to a "newer" one from a spare valve block the last time I had the valve block out. After that, new symptoms showed up so the issue was very likely linked to something that was disturbed. But the same thing goes for leaking tank pressure; while car is off..Those symptoms showed up around the last time the valve block was out also...Normally she would lose only 20psi or so a night but I could spot the leak in my gauge fitting. Now she loses almost everything overnight and I cannot find any leaks..Odd..

Still gotta do a tank isolation test tomorrow probably.

Thanks so much for all the replies and insight
 
P38Rover said:
I actually have a second valve block and a drive pack.. and I have been considering rebuilding it and using it for diagnosis. Do you have a recommendation for a oring rebuild kit that is of known good quality? I also have suspicions that my oring kit was rubbish; just like my diaphragm was..
Click to expand...
The place I got my last lot of O rings has disappeared, but as long as you do not get the red ones you should be OK.
Island 4 x 4 do them I believe.
 
Mark Piercy said:
Did we give reason to check the height sensors themselves?
Dodgy track or worn spots?
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Well they are brand new Dunlop on every corner. There are less than 1000 miles on them currently. But I have had, faulty brand new parts before. So I wont completely rule out a dodgy sensor.

I could swap them over and see if things change.. Ive also thought that possibly the wiring to the sensors might be corroded. They were after all disconnected and battered through the elements and off roading for many years. Although Ive never seen a sketchy live reading,everything is very consistent. But again, anything is possible..

Has anyone heard of someone soldering the height sensors directly?

Thanks for the reply
 
P38Rover said:
Well they are brand new Dunlop on every corner. There are less than 1000 miles on them currently. But I have had, faulty brand new parts before. So I wont completely rule out a dodgy sensor.

I could swap them over and see if things change.. Ive also thought that possibly the wiring to the sensors might be corroded. They were after all disconnected and battered through the elements and off roading for many years. Although Ive never seen a sketchy live reading,everything is very consistent. But again, anything is possible..

Has anyone heard of someone soldering the height sensors directly?

Thanks for the reply
Click to expand...
The reason I asked is mine had two front sensors worn and it would create a flicker using a DVM to watch the resistance change as the sensor was moved through the range. Mine will sit perfectly still on a flat surface and will search on an uneven patch of ground. I also removed my silencer to monitor the pumps actions.
On the motorway it'll search a little locked in normal height, locked into motorway height it will rest 99% of the time.
 
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P38Rover said:
Well they are brand new Dunlop on every corner. There are less than 1000 miles on them currently. But I have had, faulty brand new parts before. So I wont completely rule out a dodgy sensor.

I could swap them over and see if things change.. Ive also thought that possibly the wiring to the sensors might be corroded. They were after all disconnected and battered through the elements and off roading for many years. Although Ive never seen a sketchy live reading,everything is very consistent. But again, anything is possible..

Has anyone heard of someone soldering the height sensors directly?

Thanks for the reply
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Sounds like there is a good possibility of corrosion in the connectors.
 
UPDATE:

Well damn...has it really been 9 months? I guess a lot has happened since then. I am now running lifted EAS on Gen3 Arnotts and also 33in tires.

Never could figure out the constant dancing; she still busts a move whenever she feels like it. I just act like I don’t sense it and I ignore it now..Ive swapped the sensors over, played with height settings, installed brand new NRV’s, cleaned and checked wiring, but still no change.

I’ve also installed a new trailing arm. Because mine had snapped off it’s rubber height sensor mount. Still no change...

I honestly don’t think there will ever be a solution to this and I actually am starting to believe that it may be entirely “normal” for these rigs to do a little dance from time to time. Another p38 I know of has the exact same issues on brand new OEM equipment, same as me.. The only difference being that they are on Dunlop’s and the height settings were achieved by the factory height block procedure. We’re both still dancing though... I believe it may be possible that most people might just not notice the dancing. Because it is definitely slight, and intermittent. So maybe, everyone’s p38 on EAS just might be an aspiring dancer at heart.

Other than that. The EAS has been amazing! It’s been very reliable and it handles beautifully off-road. The active suspension while cornering is too cool...And the self leveling is crucial to always having predictable handling even with a full car; even while towing heavy loads on a trailer.

If I ever find a concrete solution to the dancing I will certainly update this post. So far the only thing on my todo list is refurbishing all the rubber footings on all the solenoid valves..Other than that I’m sure she’ll stay reliable and I believe the only “fix” for the dancing (although I hate to say it!) might just be to ignore it..

Many thanks to all who have replied!
 
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P38Rover said:
UPDATE:

Well damn...has it really been 9 months? I guess a lot has happened since then. I am now running lifted EAS on Gen3 Arnotts and also 33in tires.

Never could figure out the constant dancing; she still busts a move whenever she feels like it. I just act like I don’t sense it and I ignore it now..Ive swapped the sensors over, played with height settings, installed brand new NRV’s, cleaned and checked wiring, but still no change.

I’ve also installed a new trailing arm. Because mine had snapped off it’s rubber height sensor mount. Still no change...

I honestly don’t think there will ever be a solution to this and I actually am starting to believe that it may be entirely “normal” for these rigs to do a little dance from time to time. Another p38 I know of has the exact same issues on brand new OEM equipment, same as me.. The only difference being that they are on Dunlop’s and the height settings were achieved by the factory height block procedure. We’re both still dancing though... I believe it may be possible that most people might just not notice the dancing. Because it is definitely slight, and intermittent. So maybe, everyone’s p38 on EAS just might be an aspiring dancer at heart.

Other than that. The EAS has been amazing! It’s been very reliable and it handles beautifully off-road. The active suspension while cornering is too cool...And the self leveling is crucial to always having predictable handling even with a full car; even while towing heavy loads on a trailer.

If I ever find a concrete solution to the dancing I will certainly update this post. So far the only thing on my todo list is refurbishing all the rubber footings on all the solenoid valves..Other than that I’m sure she’ll stay reliable and I believe the only “fix” for the dancing (although I hate to say it!) might just be to ignore it..

Many thanks to all who have replied!
Click to expand...

There is no active suspension when cornering.
 
P38Rover said:
UPDATE:

Well damn...has it really been 9 months? I guess a lot has happened since then. I am now running lifted EAS on Gen3 Arnotts and also 33in tires.

Never could figure out the constant dancing; she still busts a move whenever she feels like it. I just act like I don’t sense it and I ignore it now..Ive swapped the sensors over, played with height settings, installed brand new NRV’s, cleaned and checked wiring, but still no change.

I’ve also installed a new trailing arm. Because mine had snapped off it’s rubber height sensor mount. Still no change...

I honestly don’t think there will ever be a solution to this and I actually am starting to believe that it may be entirely “normal” for these rigs to do a little dance from time to time. Another p38 I know of has the exact same issues on brand new OEM equipment, same as me.. The only difference being that they are on Dunlop’s and the height settings were achieved by the factory height block procedure. We’re both still dancing though... I believe it may be possible that most people might just not notice the dancing. Because it is definitely slight, and intermittent. So maybe, everyone’s p38 on EAS just might be an aspiring dancer at heart.

Other than that. The EAS has been amazing! It’s been very reliable and it handles beautifully off-road. The active suspension while cornering is too cool...And the self leveling is crucial to always having predictable handling even with a full car; even while towing heavy loads on a trailer.

If I ever find a concrete solution to the dancing I will certainly update this post. So far the only thing on my todo list is refurbishing all the rubber footings on all the solenoid valves..Other than that I’m sure she’ll stay reliable and I believe the only “fix” for the dancing (although I hate to say it!) might just be to ignore it..

Many thanks to all who have replied!
Click to expand...
I agree with practically everything your saying, brilliant off road, on road and even the rubber seals on the solenoids.
Mine does have a twitching sensor which I've seen on the nanocom but I do still have that niggling in the back of my mind that once ive replaced the sensors it still might dance.
Nice catch-up ;)
 
P38Rover said:
UPDATE:

Well damn...has it really been 9 months? I guess a lot has happened since then. I am now running lifted EAS on Gen3 Arnotts and also 33in tires.

Never could figure out the constant dancing; she still busts a move whenever she feels like it. I just act like I don’t sense it and I ignore it now..Ive swapped the sensors over, played with height settings, installed brand new NRV’s, cleaned and checked wiring, but still no change.

I’ve also installed a new trailing arm. Because mine had snapped off it’s rubber height sensor mount. Still no change...

I honestly don’t think there will ever be a solution to this and I actually am starting to believe that it may be entirely “normal” for these rigs to do a little dance from time to time. Another p38 I know of has the exact same issues on brand new OEM equipment, same as me.. The only difference being that they are on Dunlop’s and the height settings were achieved by the factory height block procedure. We’re both still dancing though... I believe it may be possible that most people might just not notice the dancing. Because it is definitely slight, and intermittent. So maybe, everyone’s p38 on EAS just might be an aspiring dancer at heart.

Other than that. The EAS has been amazing! It’s been very reliable and it handles beautifully off-road. The active suspension while cornering is too cool...And the self leveling is crucial to always having predictable handling even with a full car; even while towing heavy loads on a trailer.

If I ever find a concrete solution to the dancing I will certainly update this post. So far the only thing on my todo list is refurbishing all the rubber footings on all the solenoid valves..Other than that I’m sure she’ll stay reliable and I believe the only “fix” for the dancing (although I hate to say it!) might just be to ignore it..

Many thanks to all who have replied!
Click to expand...

Did you try splitting the difference on the sensor readings across each axle?
 
Grrrrrr said:
Did you try splitting the difference on the sensor readings across each axle?
Click to expand...

It is only the sensor readings across the front axle that matters. When the car speed drops to 1 MPH or the car stops both front valves open to equalise pressure across the axle. If one side has more pressure in it than the other this will cause the front to drop slightly. It will then rise when brake pedal is released. If this is the dancing he is getting that is the reason. He says he has 33 inch tyres fitted this will alter the speed sensor readings and the pressure equalisation will happen at a higher speed whilst the car is still moving.
 
wammers said:
There is no active suspension when cornering.
Click to expand...

Weird. I thought there was active suspension over 50kph or something..? I recently installed a roof rack and some auxiliary lighting up top and I thought I was sensing some extra anti roll banking going on. I wont rule out that im just that awesome of a driver I guess.:cool: Good to know..
 
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Grrrrrr said:
Did you try splitting the difference on the sensor readings across each axle?
Click to expand...

Yup! They are only separated by 1 unit according to the RSW software. Which should be within 5 bits(per factory spec) for the front axle.. In fact, now all my settings left to right are within a couple units after I changed out my trailing arm for one with a factory sensor mount.
 
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RangeRoller dt said:
How far is it lifted up, how did you adapt your height sensors?
Click to expand...

DISCLAIMER {{{{ I am not responsible in any way for any damages to property or life if any person(s) decides to copy or adapt my modifications. Any modifications, you do them entirely at your own risk!!! }}}}

Okay....Since this is the internet and I have no idea which idiot might come across this in the future and kill themselves; I had to insert a little disclaimer..

So I lifted her by 50mm all around. The front sensor arms as you can see are drilled,tapped and cotter-pinned in place with the stainless steel tubing. The rears I welded them. I had some spare sensor arms so I cut those up and welded them to keep the factory appearance and strength. The picture with the rear axle shows the extended rear sensor, modified bumpstop, and 50mm spacers. This is the rear axle on full droop too, still plenty of room on that bag!

PM for details if anyone is interested

LWXTE6089 - Copy.JPG SZVYE5756 - Copy.JPG IMG_E0048 - Copy.JPG
 
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