OT : WiFi

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Lee_D

Guest
Right, I understand how my laptop talks to my network via it's wifi card.
Then got pointed to this....

http://www.jiwire.com/

Have I got the right end of the stick in thinking that these locations I can
use my laptop or PDA (Dear santa....) to surf.

How does the billing work... I'm sure its real simple but somehow the logic
of it is currently going over my head.

Many of these locations are Pubs (great for when we go caravanning!) but is
the signal sufficent to sit in the carpark and surf assuming I get onboard
with a popular tariff.

This is vaguely on topic because I can read the group from the pub, sad but
think of the potential...er peanuts and sale ale in the keyboard.

Lee D

--

www.lrproject.com

Workshop photos from Landrover repairs
& other such tinkerings.
Home of Percy the Jag powered Landrover


 
On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 17:48:13 GMT, "Lee_D" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Right, I understand how my laptop talks to my network via it's wifi card.
>Then got pointed to this....
>
>http://www.jiwire.com/
>
>Have I got the right end of the stick in thinking that these locations I can
>use my laptop or PDA (Dear santa....) to surf.
>
>How does the billing work... I'm sure its real simple but somehow the logic
>of it is currently going over my head.
>
>Many of these locations are Pubs (great for when we go caravanning!) but is
>the signal sufficent to sit in the carpark and surf assuming I get onboard
>with a popular tariff.
>
>This is vaguely on topic because I can read the group from the pub, sad but
>think of the potential...er peanuts and sale ale in the keyboard.
>
>Lee D

In many locations it's free (airports etc) - particularly where they
can use it as a way of getting you to drink more coffee etc. The
actual cost of provision is three fifths of bugger all.

Many locations charge. This generally works by a nearby shop (or
barman) flogging you a little card with a passkey on it. That gets
you x number of minutes.

Signal strength is unlikely to be good enough to penetrate the
building and then the side of the ambulance. However, if you get a
USB wireless adaptor it should be possible to string the actually
antennae bit outside (or even permanently mount an antenna on top of
the truck).




--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt"
'03 Volvo V70

My Landies? http://www.seriesii.co.uk
Barcoding? http://www.bartec-systems.com
Tony Luckwill web archive at http://www.luckwill.com
 
Lee_D wrote:

> Have I got the right end of the stick in thinking that these locations I can
> use my laptop or PDA (Dear santa....) to surf.

Normally with these things you associate to the network, browse to the
remote website but get redirected to a payment page where you put your
credit card details in. That's all you need to do. I've never used
these systems though. Also don't forget that sitting outside with a
laptop generally means you can't read the screen!

Most of the pay-per-minute wireless hotspot systems allow DNS traffic to
go out but other traffic is banned until you pay, so if you are crafty
you can tunnel traffic via DNS for free, but this requires a system on
the internet under your control to receive the tunnelled DNS traffic and
expand it, which of course is then a traceable system that can be used
for a fraud investigation if such a thing were to arise...
 

"Ian Rawlings" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Lee_D wrote:
>
> > Have I got the right end of the stick in thinking that these locations I
can
> > use my laptop or PDA (Dear santa....) to surf.
>
> Normally with these things you associate to the network, browse to the
> remote website but get redirected to a payment page where you put your
> credit card details in. That's all you need to do. I've never used
> these systems though. Also don't forget that sitting outside with a
> laptop generally means you can't read the screen!
>
> Most of the pay-per-minute wireless hotspot systems allow DNS traffic to
> go out but other traffic is banned until you pay, so if you are crafty
> you can tunnel traffic via DNS for free, but this requires a system on
> the internet under your control to receive the tunnelled DNS traffic and
> expand it, which of course is then a traceable system that can be used
> for a fraud investigation if such a thing were to arise...

I got a wifi sniffer on my GPS PDA, I have found while driving to work about
5 hotspots (private address) with no wep encryption,
Is it illegal to log on and surf - check email?

At my works I have wifi with wep encryption, the factory next door has the
same but dose not have any encryption, while using my laptop the other day,
it managed to log onto there wifi connection, after about 5 mins of thinking
my connection is slow today I looked at the network configuration to find I
was logged onto the factory next door at 2Mbps- if it is illegal shouldn't
encryption be the normal not an option?



 
128Bit encryption on wi-fi has now been cracked - so basically no one is
safe! "WARdriving" is on the increase and with better antennae available
it's possible to snoop on any of the 802.11 bandwidths.

some geek in a car outside the house could be hacking you!!!!

"wps" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Ian Rawlings" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Lee_D wrote:
>>
>> > Have I got the right end of the stick in thinking that these locations
>> > I
> can
>> > use my laptop or PDA (Dear santa....) to surf.
>>
>> Normally with these things you associate to the network, browse to the
>> remote website but get redirected to a payment page where you put your
>> credit card details in. That's all you need to do. I've never used
>> these systems though. Also don't forget that sitting outside with a
>> laptop generally means you can't read the screen!
>>
>> Most of the pay-per-minute wireless hotspot systems allow DNS traffic to
>> go out but other traffic is banned until you pay, so if you are crafty
>> you can tunnel traffic via DNS for free, but this requires a system on
>> the internet under your control to receive the tunnelled DNS traffic and
>> expand it, which of course is then a traceable system that can be used
>> for a fraud investigation if such a thing were to arise...
>
> I got a wifi sniffer on my GPS PDA, I have found while driving to work
> about
> 5 hotspots (private address) with no wep encryption,
> Is it illegal to log on and surf - check email?
>
> At my works I have wifi with wep encryption, the factory next door has the
> same but dose not have any encryption, while using my laptop the other
> day,
> it managed to log onto there wifi connection, after about 5 mins of
> thinking
> my connection is slow today I looked at the network configuration to find
> I
> was logged onto the factory next door at 2Mbps- if it is illegal shouldn't
> encryption be the normal not an option?
>
>
>


 
wps wrote:

>
> "Ian Rawlings" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Lee_D wrote:
> >
> > > Have I got the right end of the stick in thinking that these
> > > locations I
> can
> > > use my laptop or PDA (Dear santa....) to surf.
> >
> > Normally with these things you associate to the network, browse to
> > the remote website but get redirected to a payment page where you
> > put your credit card details in. That's all you need to do. I've
> > never used these systems though. Also don't forget that sitting
> > outside with a laptop generally means you can't read the screen!
> >
> > Most of the pay-per-minute wireless hotspot systems allow DNS
> > traffic to go out but other traffic is banned until you pay, so if
> > you are crafty you can tunnel traffic via DNS for free, but this
> > requires a system on the internet under your control to receive the
> > tunnelled DNS traffic and expand it, which of course is then a
> > traceable system that can be used for a fraud investigation if such
> > a thing were to arise...
>
> I got a wifi sniffer on my GPS PDA, I have found while driving to
> work about 5 hotspots (private address) with no wep encryption,
> Is it illegal to log on and surf - check email?

Computer misuse act about covers it.

> At my works I have wifi with wep encryption, the factory next door
> has the same but dose not have any encryption, while using my laptop
> the other day, it managed to log onto there wifi connection, after
> about 5 mins of thinking my connection is slow today I looked at the
> network configuration to find I was logged onto the factory next door
> at 2Mbps- if it is illegal shouldn't encryption be the normal not an
> option?

WEP isn't secure anyway - they should use 128 bit WEP /AND/ block any
unknown MAC addresses. Still not perfect as MAC addresses can be
spoofed, but better than nothing, and good enough for a home network.
Any businesses using wireless without further protection deserve all
they bloody get.
 

"Lee_D" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Right, I understand how my laptop talks to my network via it's wifi card.
> Then got pointed to this....
>
> http://www.jiwire.com/
>
> Have I got the right end of the stick in thinking that these locations I
can
> use my laptop or PDA (Dear santa....) to surf.
>
> How does the billing work... I'm sure its real simple but somehow the
logic
> of it is currently going over my head.
>
> Many of these locations are Pubs (great for when we go caravanning!) but
is
> the signal sufficent to sit in the carpark and surf assuming I get onboard
> with a popular tariff.
>
> This is vaguely on topic because I can read the group from the pub, sad
but
> think of the potential...er peanuts and sale ale in the keyboard.
>
> Lee D
>
> --
>
> www.lrproject.com
>
> Workshop photos from Landrover repairs
> & other such tinkerings.
> Home of Percy the Jag powered Landrover
>
>

I got a wifi sniffer on my GPS PDA, I have found while driving to work about
5 hotspots (private address) with no wep encryption,
Is it illegal to log on and surf - check email?

At my works I have wifi with wep encryption, the factory next door has the
same but dose not have any encryption, while using my laptop the other day,
it managed to log onto there wifi connection, after about 5 mins of thinking
my connection is slow today I looked at the network configuration to find I
was logged onto the factory next door at 2Mbps- if it is illegal shouldn't
encryption be the normal not an option?


(sorry if this shows up twice my server is playin up)


 
On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 16:16:32 GMT, "wps" <[email protected]> made
me spill my meths when he wrote:

>I got a wifi sniffer on my GPS PDA, I have found while driving to work about
>5 hotspots (private address) with no wep encryption,
>Is it illegal to log on and surf - check email?

This has shown up twice now, I think your server is playing up...


--
Wayne Davies - Mobile 07989 556213 - Harrogate, N.Yorks, UK
 
wps wrote:
> I got a wifi sniffer on my GPS PDA, I have found while driving to
> work about 5 hotspots (private address) with no wep encryption,
> Is it illegal to log on and surf - check email?
>
> At my works I have wifi with wep encryption, the factory next door
> has the same but dose not have any encryption, while using my laptop
> the other day, it managed to log onto there wifi connection, after
> about 5 mins of thinking my connection is slow today I looked at the
> network configuration to find I was logged onto the factory next door
> at 2Mbps- if it is illegal shouldn't encryption be the normal not an
> option?

Theoretically yes, it actually comes under 'abstraction of electricity'
which believe it or not is the offence used to cover fraudulent use of
telephony systems. In practice the fact that someone has not botheres to
set up encryption suggests that they would be highly unlikely to notice
casual use of their set-up by a another party let alone capture the
information necessary for a successful prosecution.


--
Darren Griffin
PocketGPSWorld - www.pocketgpsworld.com
The Premier GPS Resource for News, Reviews and Forums


 
wps wrote:

> I got a wifi sniffer on my GPS PDA, I have found while driving to work about
> 5 hotspots (private address) with no wep encryption,
> Is it illegal to log on and surf - check email?

There is a local "expert" in my area charging people to "fix" their
computers and connect them "securely" to broadband, which includes
putting in wireless ADSL routers and connecting their desktop computers
to them via unprotected, unencrypted wireless LANs instead of a simple
ethernet! Incredible.... My next door neighbour has been connected up
by this dummy, the wireless link between the desktop computer and the
ADSL router is all of 7 inches long, the ADSL router is sat on top of
the desktop! No encryption, no protection, and VNC running with no
password... Amazing. The cynic in me thinks that this muppet wants to
build a pool of victims for his/her own nefarious activities.

In answer to your question, it may be illegal, who's to say! The issue
is that while they may not have intended to set their system up to give
you access, the fact that their system broadcasts offers of IP addresses
to all and sundry could be construed as an offer on their part. It's a
legal grey area from the look of it. At any rate, they are unlikely to
ever know if you do check your email via it, but at the same time they
could have set the system up deliberately to capture the credentials of
people who try to check their email via their open link ;-)
 
Ian Rawlings wrote:

> In answer to your question, it may be illegal, who's to say! The issue
> is that while they may not have intended to set their system up to give
> you access, the fact that their system broadcasts offers of IP addresses
> to all and sundry could be construed as an offer on their part. It's a
> legal grey area from the look of it. At any rate, they are unlikely to
> ever know if you do check your email via it, but at the same time they
> could have set the system up deliberately to capture the credentials of
> people who try to check their email via their open link ;-)


A friend of mine went war-driving from his work place to mine, all of 5
miles away. He sniffed nearly 20 wide open access points.

Steve
 
Steve Taylor <[email protected]> wrote:

>A friend of mine went war-driving from his work place to mine, all of 5
>miles away. He sniffed nearly 20 wide open access points.

Here in Germany people start using WEP more and more, but still lots
of open acesspoints available. I like it :)



regards - Ralph

--

Want to get in touch? http://www.radio-link.net/whereisralph.txt
 
Ralph A. Schmid, DK5RAS wrote:

> Here in Germany people start using WEP more and more, but still lots
> of open acesspoints available. I like it :)

According to the "World Wide Wardrive", the percentage of access points
that are secured has actually fallen rather than risen! You'd think
that people would get the message but apparently not.
 
Ian Rawlings <[email protected]> wrote:

>According to the "World Wide Wardrive", the percentage of access points
>that are secured has actually fallen rather than risen! You'd think
>that people would get the message but apparently not.

Here there seems an up and down - whenever the disounters
Aldi/Lidl/Norma/Plus sell some WLAN equipment at dumping prices some
new open WLANs pop up. After a time a part of them has totally gone,
some others switch to encryption of some kind, and a few remain open
:)



regards - Ralph

--

Want to get in touch? http://www.radio-link.net/whereisralph.txt
 
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
> wps wrote:
>
> > I got a wifi sniffer on my GPS PDA, I have found while driving to work about
> > 5 hotspots (private address) with no wep encryption,
> > Is it illegal to log on and surf - check email?
>
> There is a local "expert" in my area charging people to "fix" their
> computers and connect them "securely" to broadband, which includes
[...]

Yeah I've come accross quite a few of those. Hats off also to ClaraNet
who seem to have no idea of how to set up a wireless network.

> In answer to your question, it may be illegal, who's to say! The issue
> is that while they may not have intended to set their system up to give
> you access, the fact that their system broadcasts offers of IP addresses
> to all and sundry could be construed as an offer on their part. It's a

Bollocks. They're paying for it, you're not. That's the equivalent of
leaving your front door open and finding someone inside when you get
back, making themselves a cup of tea and watching your telly. They
purchase the service, you don't. Ok, so they're bloody stupid for
leaving it insecure, but that's not the point.

And bandwidth is not free or as cheap as it's currently being sold
retail. For all of you with broadband connections, enjoy it while it
lasts because in the next few years, the market's going to readjust
itself and bring costs back into reality from the gutter where they
currently are.

Cheers,
Aled, delivering a daily dose of misery. :)
 
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> In practice the fact that someone has not botheres to
> set up encryption suggests that they would be highly unlikely to notice
> casual use of their set-up by a another party let alone capture the
> information necessary for a successful prosecution.

'Course it could be a honey pot...I've always wanted to set one up, see
what wanders in as it were.

Cheers,
Aled.
 
In article <[email protected]>, Aled wrote:
>
> Yeah I've come accross quite a few of those. Hats off also to ClaraNet
> who seem to have no idea of how to set up a wireless network.
>

Our work ISP merged with Claranet earlier this year and have been going a
bit downhill ever since. Before the merger Netscalibur tech support was A1.


--
simon at sbarr dot demon dot co dot uk
Simon Barr.
'97 110 300Tdi.
 
On 2004-12-14, Aled <[email protected]> wrote:

> Bollocks. They're paying for it, you're not. That's the equivalent
> of leaving your front door open and finding someone inside when you
> get back, making themselves a cup of tea and watching your telly.

No, the issue arises because you are pretty much asking people to
connect to your network, so with your analogy it's like you inviting
people in for a cup of tea and trying to sue them for tresspass if
they accept. You blast your network out into the street so any
passing laptop picks it up whether they want to or not, and then you
offer then an IP address. Many will accept by default.

> They purchase the service, you don't. Ok, so they're bloody stupid
> for leaving it insecure, but that's not the point.

Don't go confusing moral with legal ;-)

--
For every expert, there is an equal but opposite expert
 
On or around 14 Dec 2004 09:43:59 GMT, Simon Barr <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>In article <[email protected]>, Aled wrote:
>>
>> Yeah I've come accross quite a few of those. Hats off also to ClaraNet
>> who seem to have no idea of how to set up a wireless network.
>>
>
>Our work ISP merged with Claranet earlier this year and have been going a
>bit downhill ever since. Before the merger Netscalibur tech support was A1.

same happened to the lot that got merged into ****cali.

and wanadon't's tech support is less useful thana chocolate fireguard, 'cos
the latter would be edible.

 
In article <[email protected]>, austin@ddol-
las.fsnet.co.uk says...
> same happened to the lot that got merged into ****cali.
>
> and wanadon't's tech support is less useful thana chocolate fireguard, 'cos
> the latter would be edible.

Hrm I see this with many large-ish ISPs....I'm just hoping ours doesn't
go that way and we can control the growth to the point of still
providing a quality service.

Cheers,
Aled.
 
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