OT - NIP, Speeding etc.

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R

rads

Guest
Just had a phone call from the wife, who has recieved (I think) a NIP
for an (alledged!) speeding offense on the M11.

Reading between the lines, I think she failed to grasp the concept of
the average speed cameras.

Not condoning speeding, or trying to defend her in any way, but..

The (alledged!) incident took place on the 1st of May. I thought
notification had to be within 14 days?

If the NIP is, as I suspect, 4 - 5 weeks beyond the deadline, do I
just ignore it, send it back pointing out the deadline, or something
else?

David
 
On Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:37:13 +0100, rads
<[email protected]> wrote:

> ...
> The (alledged!) incident took place on the 1st of May. I thought
> notification had to be within 14 days?
>
> If the NIP is, as I suspect, 4 - 5 weeks beyond the deadline, do I
> just ignore it, send it back pointing out the deadline, or something
> else?

Something else - consult a lawyer.

--
William Tasso

110 V8
 
On 2006-06-20, rads <[email protected]> wrote:

> The (alledged!) incident took place on the 1st of May. I thought
> notification had to be within 14 days?

Unless they've changed the law, which certainly isn't beyond this lot,
then 14 days is required.

I've had the same in two situations quite a long time ago, and binned
the NIPs, I received threats from the police about all the nasty
things they'd do to me if they take me to court, but they never did as
it wouldn't have been worth their trouble as they cocked up the
issuing so badly. It also helped that all the situations were
marginal, e.g. no traffic, high visibility, no entrances/exits onto
the roads I was on, no people about, all that kind of thing.

> If the NIP is, as I suspect, 4 - 5 weeks beyond the deadline, do I
> just ignore it, send it back pointing out the deadline, or something
> else?

I would just bin it, and start worrying if I got a summons. I've only
ever been caught speeding four times over the course of my driving
life and only coughed up once because the offence was in scotland, and
a summons would have potentially meant a lengthy journey that would
cost more than the fine.

I would also just like to issue a pre-emptive "sod off you brainless
twerp" to the person who will inevitably reply in this thread that
speeding is never right because it always kills children and cute
fluffy bunnies with twinkly little noses.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
 

The 14 days, refers to notification to the address of the registered keeper,
so if it was a company car or a hire car then it may take much longer for
the *driver* to receive the NIP, and it is still valid.

Regards
Jeff


 
On Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:05:24 +0100, "Jeff" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>The 14 days, refers to notification to the address of the registered keeper,
>so if it was a company car or a hire car then it may take much longer for
>the *driver* to receive the NIP, and it is still valid.
>
>Regards
>Jeff
>
Nope.

Registered keeper. Correct address etc etc.

Since my first post, I have found Pepipoo has LOTS of info on this
sort of thing.

Thanks all.

David
 
On Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:49:58 +0100, Ian Rawlings
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I would also just like to issue a pre-emptive "sod off you brainless
>twerp" to the person who will inevitably reply in this thread that
>speeding is never right because it always kills children and cute
>fluffy bunnies with twinkly little noses.

I was trying to think of something similar to ad to the original post,
but don't have the eloquent dexterity with the English language you so
masterfully demonstrate.

David
 
Ian Rawlings wrote:
> On 2006-06-20, rads <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> The (alledged!) incident took place on the 1st of May. I thought
>> notification had to be within 14 days?
>
> Unless they've changed the law, which certainly isn't beyond this lot,
> then 14 days is required.

For speeding offences, yes they have - I think they allow up to
six months!

Typical this government; eroding the fundamentals of our rights
within the UK legal system to suit their own needs - especially
when it comes to collecting money!

Matt
 
Ian Rawlings wrote:
> On 2006-06-20, rads <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>The (alledged!) incident took place on the 1st of May. I thought
>>notification had to be within 14 days?
>
>
> Unless they've changed the law, which certainly isn't beyond this lot,
> then 14 days is required.
>
> I've had the same in two situations quite a long time ago, and binned
> the NIPs, I received threats from the police about all the nasty
> things they'd do to me if they take me to court, but they never did as
> it wouldn't have been worth their trouble as they cocked up the
> issuing so badly. It also helped that all the situations were
> marginal, e.g. no traffic, high visibility, no entrances/exits onto
> the roads I was on, no people about, all that kind of thing.
>
>
>>If the NIP is, as I suspect, 4 - 5 weeks beyond the deadline, do I
>>just ignore it, send it back pointing out the deadline, or something
>>else?
>
>
> I would just bin it, and start worrying if I got a summons. I've only
> ever been caught speeding four times over the course of my driving
> life and only coughed up once because the offence was in scotland, and
> a summons would have potentially meant a lengthy journey that would
> cost more than the fine.
>
> I would also just like to issue a pre-emptive "sod off you brainless
> twerp" to the person who will inevitably reply in this thread that
> speeding is never right because it always kills children and cute
> fluffy bunnies with twinkly little noses.
>

No, I was going to say that it frightens the cute fluffy bunnies away so
it's hard to shoot them!

Stuart
 
On Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:13:55 +0100, Matthew Maddock
<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> The (alledged!) incident took place on the 1st of May. I thought
>>> notification had to be within 14 days?
>>
>> Unless they've changed the law, which certainly isn't beyond this lot,
>> then 14 days is required.
>
>For speeding offences, yes they have - I think they allow up to
>six months!

>
>Matt

Got a link anywhere? Everything I can find still suggests 14 days, so
long as there is no reason for police not to be able to track you down
easily (company car, hire car, change of address etc etc).

David
 
On 2006-06-20, Srtgray <[email protected]> wrote:

> No, I was going to say that it frightens the cute fluffy bunnies away so
> it's hard to shoot them!

*shoot* them? How terrible.

Personally I skin them alive and dip them in salt before eating them,
I don't like the eyes so I pick them out with a cocktail stick..

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
 
On 2006-06-20, Matthew Maddock <[email protected]> wrote:

> For speeding offences, yes they have - I think they allow up to
> six months!

I believe that the NIP has to arrive within 14 days but the offence
has to be pressed within 6 months, this is from memory though. The 14
days NIP thing is because you have to have enough time to allow your
memory to aid you in mounting a defence. I'd be stuffed after 1 day
personally, can rarely remember where I was on any given day other
than today ;-)

> Typical this government; eroding the fundamentals of our rights
> within the UK legal system to suit their own needs - especially
> when it comes to collecting money!

Indeed, it used to be the case that they had to prove that they'd
delivered the NIP to the correct person, all they have to do now is to
have a record of them stuffing it into the postal system.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
 
On Tuesday, in article
<[email protected]>
[email protected] "rads"
wrote:

> On Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:05:24 +0100, "Jeff" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> >The 14 days, refers to notification to the address of the registered keeper,
> >so if it was a company car or a hire car then it may take much longer for
> >the *driver* to receive the NIP, and it is still valid.
> >
> >Regards
> >Jeff
> >
> Nope.
>
> Registered keeper. Correct address etc etc.
>
> Since my first post, I have found Pepipoo has LOTS of info on this
> sort of thing.
>
> Thanks all.

It seems to me that just binning the letter is a bad idea, because it's
your evidence that they didn't do the notification on time. But that's
not a lawyer's opinion.

--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.

"I am Number Two," said Penfold. "You are Number Six."
 
On 2006-06-20, "David G. Bell" <[email protected]> wrote:

> It seems to me that just binning the letter is a bad idea, because it's
> your evidence that they didn't do the notification on time. But that's
> not a lawyer's opinion.

Probably right, I was just confident that they'd not bother to follow
me up as the NIPs recorded the dates correctly including the 3 months
in one case between the offence and the NIP, plus the marginal nature
of the offences, meant that if I went to court they'd stand such a
high chance of losing that they wouldn't bother taking it any
further. I don't think I'd recommend binning the NIP in all cases,
I was just stating what I did at the time. Someone who went haring
through a 30MPH zone at 60 would have to take much more care,
especially while driving!

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
 
rads nearly made me spill my Shiraz on 20/06/2006 09:37 by writing:
> Just had a phone call from the wife, who has recieved (I think) a NIP
> for an (alledged!) speeding offense on the M11.
>
> Reading between the lines, I think she failed to grasp the concept of
> the average speed cameras.
>
> Not condoning speeding, or trying to defend her in any way, but..
>
> The (alledged!) incident took place on the 1st of May. I thought
> notification had to be within 14 days?

Technically yes, but it won't necessarily get you off.

The official advice at this point is to consult a lawyer. But he'll
charge you more than then fine, so unless you're facing a ban it's
probably not worth it.

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=87 makes interesting
reading but dates back to 2003.

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=11473 might be useful, as
might the rest of that site.

Also check out the advice in
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=2846
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=2845 and
http://www.abd.org.uk/righttosilence.htm

My personal advice is that for a first offence (3 points, 60 quid, and
possibly 10% on your insurance for a year or two) it's probably easier
to suck it up and pay it. If you're facing a ban, it's definitely worth
a fight.

Drop me a mail off list (change spam to andy to reply) if you need any
of this clarified, but remember I am not a lawyer.

Andy

 
On or around Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:49:58 +0100, Ian Rawlings
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>I would also just like to issue a pre-emptive "sod off you brainless
>twerp" to the person who will inevitably reply in this thread that
>speeding is never right because it always kills children and cute
>fluffy bunnies with twinkly little noses.

nice.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"There is plenty of time to win this game, and to thrash the Spaniards
too" Sir Francis Drake (1540? - 1596) Attr. saying when the Armarda was
sighted, 20th July 1588
 
"David G. Bell" <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz funny
about:
>> Nope.
>>
>> Registered keeper. Correct address etc etc.
>>
>> Since my first post, I have found Pepipoo has LOTS of info on this
>> sort of thing.
>>
>> Thanks all.
>
> It seems to me that just binning the letter is a bad idea, because
> it's your evidence that they didn't do the notification on time. But
> that's not a lawyer's opinion.

Indeed - the key here (if you need one) is the post date on the envelope.

The 14 days is to ensure you are in a position to furnish the details...
i.e. truck sideswipes a metro off the road, truck driver has no idea metro
is flung in to nearby bush. NIP issued to ensure transport manager can pin
down the relevant truck driver if you get the idea , thats the NIP logic in
a nut shell.

If it's over 14 days when the NIP was SENT then it does not comply with the
relevant legistlation. Your key bits are the envelope and any date on the
literature. If for some reason there is any complication which means the
police can not trace the driver then it gets all complicated but basically
if the cars registered to home, which it sounds like it is then 14 days to
SEND the NIP not for you to recieve it.

6 Months is the limitation of proceedings for certain motoring offences of
which this is one (From the point of identifying the driver).

Hope that helps

Lee D


 
On Tue, 20 Jun 2006 08:37:13 GMT, rads
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Just had a phone call from the wife, who has recieved (I think) a NIP
>for an (alledged!) speeding offense on the M11.
>
>Reading between the lines, I think she failed to grasp the concept of
>the average speed cameras.
>
>Not condoning speeding, or trying to defend her in any way, but..
>
>The (alledged!) incident took place on the 1st of May. I thought
>notification had to be within 14 days?
>
>If the NIP is, as I suspect, 4 - 5 weeks beyond the deadline, do I
>just ignore it, send it back pointing out the deadline, or something
>else?
>
>David

Ahem.

Car still registered at old address.

14 day rule does not apply.

Its a fair cop guv.

David
 
>
> Ahem.
>
> Car still registered at old address.
>
> 14 day rule does not apply.
>
> Its a fair cop guv.
>
> David

Even so, it may well be worth checking out the place of the alleged offence.
The signage must comply with the road traffic act and the police must supply
you with the evidence of the offence otherwise they are likely to lose in
court.

I saw a copper a couple of days ago with a speed gun in an area served by
two signs, one of which was clearly outside the rta in as much as it was a
sign on a grey background, and the other hidden behind bushes until you were
about 20 yards from it. Well worth challenging under those circumstances.

I don't know why everbody feels the need to say I am not a lawyer, so I
won't say it.
TonyB

TonyB


 
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