New Defender

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A

Adam Bryce

Guest
Hi guys,

does anyone have any information on the new defender when it will be
released and all the good stuff


Adam


 
On Wed, 1 Mar 2006 18:46:09 +1100, "Adam Bryce" <[email protected]> scribbled
the following nonsense:

>Hi guys,
>
>does anyone have any information on the new defender when it will be
>released and all the good stuff
>
>
>Adam
>


"unofficially", I have heard from a friend who does a lot of work on G
Deck that it has been pushed back to sometime between 2008 and
2010....
--

Simon Isaacs

Peterborough 4x4 Club Newsletter Editor and Webmaster
Green Lane Association (GLASS) Financial Director
101 Ambi, undergoing camper conversion www.simoni.co.uk
1976 S3 LWT, Fully restored, ready for sale! Make me an offer!
Suzuki SJ410 (Wife's) 3" lift kit fitted, body shell now restored and mounted on chassis, waiting on a windscreen and MOT
Series 3 88" Rolling chassis...what to do next
1993 200 TDi Discovery
1994 200 TDi Discovery body sheel, being bobbed and modded.....
 
Simon Isaacs <[email protected]> wrote:

> "unofficially", I have heard from a friend who does a lot of work on G
> Deck that it has been pushed back to sometime between 2008 and
> 2010....


Officially unoficially: In 2009 the situation of the defender will be
evaluated. A friend of mine had the opportunity to take a picture of the
strategic model plan of Land Rover for the years till 2009

:)

Raoul
--
==To e-mail me exchange das_liest_keiner with anything else==
I'll give up my Land Rover when you pry my cold dead fingers
from the steering wheel.
 
Bugger wrong button, Adam you may get this as an e mail.....

One of the LR mags reported in a recent editorial that the new Defender was
being tested, but the spy shot people stood no chance of getting a shot of
it!. I've seen the new Freelander being thrashed about round here but nowt
else.

Dom J



 

"Adam Bryce" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Hi guys,
>
> does anyone have any information on the new defender when it will be
> released and all the good stuff
>


New Ford engine by the end of this year to replace the TD5 which apparently
does not meet EuroIV emission regulations.

Huw



 

"> I've seen the new Freelander being thrashed about round here but nowt
> else.
>
> Dom


The latest LRW has a special section on the Defender. In it is a time line
showing the Defender from birth onwards. The 2 artists impresions that show
a Disco styled defender look amazingly like something i saw drive past me 2
years ago on the Chelt to Swindon bypass. What was even more uncany was the
shot of the Challenger. Combine these 2 vehicles and you have *exactly*
what i saw....which was a Discovery shaped, pick up bodied LWB vehicle.

Dom J



 
On or around Thu, 2 Mar 2006 17:53:48 -0000, "Huw"
<hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:

>
>"Adam Bryce" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>> Hi guys,
>>
>> does anyone have any information on the new defender when it will be
>> released and all the good stuff
>>

>
>New Ford engine by the end of this year to replace the TD5 which apparently
>does not meet EuroIV emission regulations.


for "doesn't" I suspect you may read "we CBA to make it".

Ford are not likely to continue production of what is basically a single-use
engine which has no commonality with the rest of their engines.

I hope they put a decent one in it...
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"You praise the firm restraint with which they write -_
I'm with you there, of course: They use the snaffle and the bit
alright, but where's the bloody horse? - Roy Campbell (1902-1957)
 
Austin Shackles wrote:

>
> I hope they put a decent one in it...


Look - a whole squadron of porcine aviators. :)

--
EMB
 

"EMB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Austin Shackles wrote:
>
>>
>> I hope they put a decent one in it...

>
> Look - a whole squadron of porcine aviators. :)
>


They'll have landed before the engine launches. Ford make very decent
diesels and it will be a four cylinder unit similar to that just out in the
new square-nosed Transit.

New Durable and Economical Engines

The new high-tech TDCi diesel engines are the first dedicated commercial
vehicle powertrains to be developed as part of the partnership between Ford
Motor Company and PSA Peugeot Citroen and will be built at Ford's Dagenham
Diesel Centre.

The new Transit range will offer six diesel engines and one LPG-compatible
petrol engine. The diesel options include new 2.2-litre and 2.4-litre
Duratorq TDCi diesel engines, matched with either five-speed or six-speed
Durashift manual transmissions.

All Transit diesel power units are compliant with Euro IV emissions
standards and feature latest generation common-rail technology. They have
been designed to accommodate forthcoming emissions legislation and to
deliver improved performance with reduced fuel consumption, while the engine
layout has been revised for ease of maintenance

The most likely variant for the Land Rover is the 2.4TDCi with 135hp or
more.

Huw


 
On or around Fri, 3 Mar 2006 18:55:08 -0000, "Huw"
<hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:

>The most likely variant for the Land Rover is the 2.4TDCi with 135hp or
>more.


not sure why they're going smaller. The duratorq 2.4 is smaller than the
previous 2.5 TDi, and although it may be more efficient, I don't really see
it as a decent sized engine for a defender, but bearing in mind the long
history of LR having too-small diesels I suppose it'd fit.

mind, I see the 2.4 is the "big" duratorq... there's a 2.0 as well, which I
didn't know. Top spec for the 2.4 in transits is 137PS, 375NM (buggrem...
whats than in units I understand... oooh, look:
http://www.onlineconversion.com/ dead handy... aha. 276. which I have to
say looks reasonable, compared to the TD5.

bugger, bloody ford have made their PDF uncutandpasteable. ICBA to print it
and scan it. apparently the top spec one has "transient torque overboost
function", which is presumably the difference between that and the 125PS,
285NM version - and also presumably means you don't get 375NM full-time.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"The great masses of the people ... will more easily fall victims to
a great lie than to a small one" Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
from Mein Kampf, Ch 10
 

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around Fri, 3 Mar 2006 18:55:08 -0000, "Huw"
> <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>The most likely variant for the Land Rover is the 2.4TDCi with 135hp or
>>more.

>
> not sure why they're going smaller. The duratorq 2.4 is smaller than the
> previous 2.5 TDi, and although it may be more efficient, I don't really
> see
> it as a decent sized engine for a defender, but bearing in mind the long
> history of LR having too-small diesels I suppose it'd fit.


Spot-on, that man. I agree with you wholeheartedly re. size Austin, it's all
very well having more power-efficient modern diesels, but they come at a
price, that of economy. It'd be better IMO to have, say, a 3-litre
low-pressure boosted unit with better inherent torque characteristics and it
would likely be more economical as well! My bmw 330d that I had was a
fantastic piece of disiesel engineering, but unless you drove it really
gently it was hard to achieve over 34mpg (ish), hardly anything to write
home about for a disiesel engine economy figure. Best I ever saw was 44mpg,
sitting on cruise for 150 miles at 60mph.

> mind, I see the 2.4 is the "big" duratorq... there's a 2.0 as well, which
> I
> didn't know. Top spec for the 2.4 in transits is 137PS, 375NM (buggrem...
> whats than in units I understand... oooh, look:
> http://www.onlineconversion.com/ dead handy... aha. 276. which I have to
> say looks reasonable, compared to the TD5.
>
> bugger, bloody ford have made their PDF uncutandpasteable. ICBA to print
> it
> and scan it. apparently the top spec one has "transient torque overboost
> function", which is presumably the difference between that and the 125PS,
> 285NM version - and also presumably means you don't get 375NM full-time.


Nope, as I understand it, it appears to allow the overboost whilst
accelerating hard then trims the boost back down as your rate of
acceleration decreases at higher rpm. Should be a simple electronic "fix"
(tuning box or suchlike, no doubt) to make the full boost available at all
times, but what of engine life....?

FFS Ford, fit a decent bloody sized engine in the first place and be done
with it!

Badger.


 
In message <[email protected]>
Austin Shackles <[email protected]> wrote:

> On or around Fri, 3 Mar 2006 18:55:08 -0000, "Huw"
> <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:
>
> >The most likely variant for the Land Rover is the 2.4TDCi with 135hp or
> >more.

>
> not sure why they're going smaller. The duratorq 2.4 is smaller than the
> previous 2.5 TDi, and although it may be more efficient, I don't really see
> it as a decent sized engine for a defender, but bearing in mind the long
> history of LR having too-small diesels I suppose it'd fit.
>
> mind, I see the 2.4 is the "big" duratorq... there's a 2.0 as well, which I
> didn't know. Top spec for the 2.4 in transits is 137PS, 375NM (buggrem...
> whats than in units I understand... oooh, look:
> http://www.onlineconversion.com/ dead handy... aha. 276. which I have to
> say looks reasonable, compared to the TD5.
>
> bugger, bloody ford have made their PDF uncutandpasteable. ICBA to print it
> and scan it. apparently the top spec one has "transient torque overboost
> function", which is presumably the difference between that and the 125PS,
> 285NM version - and also presumably means you don't get 375NM full-time.


At what RPM?

Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay
 
On or around Sat, 4 Mar 2006 09:44:46 +0000 (UTC), "Badger"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>
>Spot-on, that man. I agree with you wholeheartedly re. size Austin, it's all
>very well having more power-efficient modern diesels, but they come at a
>price, that of economy. It'd be better IMO to have, say, a 3-litre
>low-pressure boosted unit with better inherent torque characteristics and it
>would likely be more economical as well! My bmw 330d that I had was a
>fantastic piece of disiesel engineering, but unless you drove it really
>gently it was hard to achieve over 34mpg (ish), hardly anything to write
>home about for a disiesel engine economy figure. Best I ever saw was 44mpg,
>sitting on cruise for 150 miles at 60mph.
>

quite, not much good for a not-very-large saloon. By contrast, the 2-litre
TDi perkins in the Montego can return 50 mpg without trouble and you really
have to go for it to get it to return much less. and that'll sit at 90 on
the motorway without appearing stressed... I daresay that when driven
"keenly" it's not gonna touch the BMW for acceleration, but get the turbo on
boost and it's not exactly tardy off the mark in traffic, in the same way as
the 300 TDi disco is - my main objection to the 300 TDi disco for take-off
is that the gearing's all wrong - second is too high to take off in without
bogging the engine down again, and it can be bloody difficult to get rolling
with a heavy trailer behind on a slope in 1st. A lower 1st and 2nd would
let you pull off in 2nd (like I can in the Convoy) under normal conditions,
and have a lower 1st to pull away in difficult conditions. The high first
doesn't even make for all that good a take-off when booting it, 'cos it runs
out of revs too fast.

Granted, you can use low range. But the number of people who have the
necessary ability to pull off in low range and then change up to high on the
move once it's rolling is rather small.

[duratorq]

>Nope, as I understand it, it appears to allow the overboost whilst
>accelerating hard then trims the boost back down as your rate of
>acceleration decreases at higher rpm. Should be a simple electronic "fix"
>(tuning box or suchlike, no doubt) to make the full boost available at all
>times, but what of engine life....?


point being that if you were towing hard up Shap or something heading into a
gale, would the electronics let you have full power and torque for half an
hour? Or does it have something that says "ey up, we've been at overboost
for 5 minutes, now we have to go back to normal"

Granted it can probably be "tuned" ...

the other thing is that by having a small powerful engine it will run at
maximum output more often and for longer in a working vehicle. something
around 3.5 or 4 litres will be more relaxed for much of the time and will
last a lot longer, in principle.


>
>FFS Ford, fit a decent bloody sized engine in the first place and be done
>with it!
>
>Badger.
>

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Nessun maggior dolore che ricordarsi del tempo felice nella miseria"
- Dante Alighieri (1265 - 1321) from Divina Commedia 'Inferno'
 
On or around Sat, 4 Mar 2006 09:55:43 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>In message <[email protected]>
> Austin Shackles <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On or around Fri, 3 Mar 2006 18:55:08 -0000, "Huw"
>> <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:
>>
>> >The most likely variant for the Land Rover is the 2.4TDCi with 135hp or
>> >more.

>>
>> not sure why they're going smaller. The duratorq 2.4 is smaller than the
>> previous 2.5 TDi, and although it may be more efficient, I don't really see
>> it as a decent sized engine for a defender, but bearing in mind the long
>> history of LR having too-small diesels I suppose it'd fit.
>>
>> mind, I see the 2.4 is the "big" duratorq... there's a 2.0 as well, which I
>> didn't know. Top spec for the 2.4 in transits is 137PS, 375NM (buggrem...
>> whats than in units I understand... oooh, look:
>> http://www.onlineconversion.com/ dead handy... aha. 276. which I have to
>> say looks reasonable, compared to the TD5.
>>
>> bugger, bloody ford have made their PDF uncutandpasteable. ICBA to print it
>> and scan it. apparently the top spec one has "transient torque overboost
>> function", which is presumably the difference between that and the 125PS,
>> 285NM version - and also presumably means you don't get 375NM full-time.

>
>At what RPM?


2000, IIRC. though what the torque graph looks like I don't know - it's not
about what RPM the peak torque is, but how wide the plateau where say 90% of
peak is available. This was I think the problem with the M16 in the disco -
too peaky.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Nessun maggior dolore che ricordarsi del tempo felice nella miseria"
- Dante Alighieri (1265 - 1321) from Divina Commedia 'Inferno'
 
In message <[email protected]>
Austin Shackles <[email protected]> wrote:

> On or around Sat, 4 Mar 2006 09:55:43 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
> >In message <[email protected]>
> > Austin Shackles <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> On or around Fri, 3 Mar 2006 18:55:08 -0000, "Huw"
> >> <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:
> >>
> >> >The most likely variant for the Land Rover is the 2.4TDCi with 135hp or
> >> >more.
> >>
> >> not sure why they're going smaller. The duratorq 2.4 is smaller than the
> >> previous 2.5 TDi, and although it may be more efficient, I don't really see
> >> it as a decent sized engine for a defender, but bearing in mind the long
> >> history of LR having too-small diesels I suppose it'd fit.
> >>
> >> mind, I see the 2.4 is the "big" duratorq... there's a 2.0 as well, which I
> >> didn't know. Top spec for the 2.4 in transits is 137PS, 375NM (buggrem...
> >> whats than in units I understand... oooh, look:
> >> http://www.onlineconversion.com/ dead handy... aha. 276. which I have to
> >> say looks reasonable, compared to the TD5.
> >>
> >> bugger, bloody ford have made their PDF uncutandpasteable. ICBA to print it
> >> and scan it. apparently the top spec one has "transient torque overboost
> >> function", which is presumably the difference between that and the 125PS,
> >> 285NM version - and also presumably means you don't get 375NM full-time.

> >
> >At what RPM?

>
> 2000, IIRC. though what the torque graph looks like I don't know - it's not
> about what RPM the peak torque is, but how wide the plateau where say 90% of
> peak is available. This was I think the problem with the M16 in the disco -
> too peaky.


I'd disagree there - for off-road, and to an extent towing, max torque
needs to be as low as possible.

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay
 

>I'd disagree there - for off-road, and to an extent towing, max torque
>needs to be as low as possible.
>
>Richard


What matters is having lots of torque low down. The RPM of max torque
is completely irrelevant.

If you could choose between an engine with 300 lbft at 1800rpm and
320 lbft at 3600 rpm OR 200 lbft at 1800 and 180 lbft at 3600rpm,
which do you go for? The latter has its max torque much lower down...


--
Tim Hobbs
 
In message <[email protected]>
Tim Hobbs <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> >I'd disagree there - for off-road, and to an extent towing, max torque

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >needs to be as low as possible.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >
> >Richard

>
> What matters is having lots of torque low down. The RPM of max torque
> is completely irrelevant.
>
> If you could choose between an engine with 300 lbft at 1800rpm and
> 320 lbft at 3600 rpm OR 200 lbft at 1800 and 180 lbft at 3600rpm,
> which do you go for? The latter has its max torque much lower down...
>
>


er, I'm pretty sure that's exactly what I said? Ok, so I missed
the word "down" out ...... ;-)

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay
 
On or around Sat, 04 Mar 2006 21:57:35 +0000, Tim Hobbs <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>
>>I'd disagree there - for off-road, and to an extent towing, max torque
>>needs to be as low as possible.
>>
>>Richard

>
>What matters is having lots of torque low down. The RPM of max torque
>is completely irrelevant.


which was my point. An engine giving you 300 ft lb at 2000 rpm but only 100
at 1800 rpm is not much use for practical purposes. The best engines are
those where the torque curve climbs steeply at low revs, hits say 90% of
maximum by maybe 1300 rpm and then has a nice flat plateau up to about 4000.

speaking of smallish diesels, here, of course.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Remember that to change your mind and follow him who sets you right
is to be none the less free than you were before."
Marcus Aurelius Antoninus (121-180), from Meditations, VIII.16
 

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around Sat, 04 Mar 2006 21:57:35 +0000, Tim Hobbs <[email protected]>
> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>
>>>I'd disagree there - for off-road, and to an extent towing, max torque
>>>needs to be as low as possible.
>>>
>>>Richard

>>
>>What matters is having lots of torque low down. The RPM of max torque
>>is completely irrelevant.

>
> which was my point. An engine giving you 300 ft lb at 2000 rpm but only
> 100
> at 1800 rpm is not much use for practical purposes. The best engines are
> those where the torque curve climbs steeply at low revs, hits say 90% of
> maximum by maybe 1300 rpm and then has a nice flat plateau up to about
> 4000.
>
> speaking of smallish diesels, here, of course.


I much prefer engines that have a high torque rise. Torque rise [or
'reserve' expressed as a percentage] is the difference between torque at
rated maximum speed and the higher maximum torque at lower revs. The higher
the torque rise, the greater the resistance to engine load and, if you like,
the greater the lugging power of the engine for a given power. Higher
torque rise engines of the same maximum power at the same revs as other
engines have a higher power at lower revs.
A flat torque curve is fine for an engine with revvy performance but for a
flexible lugging engine you need a high torque rise from high revs down to
low. And yes, a torque curve is properly read from right to left in the same
way that it is physically measured by a dynamometer. The figures are then
mathematically converted to power.

Huw


 
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