MOTClass Problems

Has anyone come up with the definitive answer yet to the MOT problems
regarding the MOT class problems. I have a Defender that is coming up for
MOT soon and the Gross Weight is shown as 3050kg, it has side bench seats in
the rear, and no rear side windows.

Regards
Jeff

send youre v5c log book off and change the revenue weight to 002950kg
[2950kg] as is listed for STATION WAGON in the landrover gb specs .

then it should come up on computer at MOT test station as that weight
and they will accept it as class 4 .

i think the class 4 test centre ramps are for up to 3000kg and thats
why there are problems with these "default" weights that the DVLA have
been placing on mostly ALL landrover documents whether they are 90 or
110 or whatever .

discovery logbooks dont seem to have the revenue weights on the
logbooks but landrovers do for some reason .
both my 90 logbooks have 3499kg revenue weights on them yet landrover
gb list the weights as being 2500kg maximum for 90s and 3050kg for 110
landrovers .

even some landrover logbooks dont have anything shown on the revenue
weight section .

must be a cock up by the DVLA but they arent seemingly interested in
sorting it out properly, yet all info is on theyre computer and could
be rewritten easily, except for fact iof the cost it will be to send
out new V5C logbooks to all landrover owners with correct info on .

best thing to do is for you to change the details yourself to 2950kg
and send logbook in for a new updated one .

i have sent mine in for the 90s and 2500kg changes but have not
received them back yet .

i cannot think for life of me that a 110 landy is over 3 ton , just
look at all those nissan and mitsubishi pickups going around that are
much bigger and surely go to normal garages for MOTs .

the revenue weight the DVLA is listing is the gross combined vehicle
and trailer TOWING WEIGHT that a landrover can tow up to and not the
weight of actual vehicle .

just fill in the log book and send it off, then see what occurs when
you go for test, if anything youll be under 3000kg on the computer and
they should then be given the ok to test youre landy .

its not that they cant do it, its just that the " COMPUTER SAYS NO " ,
just like on LITTLE BRITAIN on the tv .

> send youre v5c log book off and change the revenue weight to 002950kg
> [2950kg] as is listed for STATION WAGON in the landrover gb specs .

That wont work because the VIN plate shows 3050kg and the V5 has to agree.

>
> then it should come up on computer at MOT test station as that weight
> and they will accept it as class 4 .
>
> i think the class 4 test centre ramps are for up to 3000kg and thats
> why there are problems with these "default" weights that the DVLA have
> been placing on mostly ALL landrover documents whether they are 90 or
> 110 or whatever .

I don't think that is the problem, because the 3000kg value is a max LOADED
weight, not unladen.

>
> discovery logbooks dont seem to have the revenue weights on the
> logbooks but landrovers do for some reason .
> both my 90 logbooks have 3499kg revenue weights on them yet landrover
> gb list the weights as being 2500kg maximum for 90s and 3050kg for 110
> landrovers .

That seems to be a DVLA cock up, 3500kg is the limit for a PLG.

>
> even some landrover logbooks dont have anything shown on the revenue
> weight section .
>
> must be a cock up by the DVLA but they arent seemingly interested in
> sorting it out properly, yet all info is on theyre computer and could
> be rewritten easily, except for fact iof the cost it will be to send
> out new V5C logbooks to all landrover owners with correct info on .
>
> best thing to do is for you to change the details yourself to 2950kg
> and send logbook in for a new updated one .
>
> i have sent mine in for the 90s and 2500kg changes but have not
> received them back yet .
>
> i cannot think for life of me that a 110 landy is over 3 ton , just
> look at all those nissan and mitsubishi pickups going around that are
> much bigger and surely go to normal garages for MOTs .

That 3 ton is gross loaded weight not the unladen weight..

>
> the revenue weight the DVLA is listing is the gross combined vehicle
> and trailer TOWING WEIGHT that a landrover can tow up to and not the
> weight of actual vehicle .

No it isn't, the combined vehicle and trailer weight is 6550kg according to
my VIN plate


> just fill in the log book and send it off, then see what occurs when
> you go for test, if anything youll be under 3000kg on the computer and
> they should then be given the ok to test youre landy .
>
> its not that they cant do it, its just that the " COMPUTER SAYS NO " ,
> just like on LITTLE BRITAIN on the tv .
>

I think the problem is that if the computer says no then the system will not
allow them to issue an MOT.

Also changing the V5 to a figure that is different from the VIN plate will
cause a fail.

The answer seems to be that if the vehicle is between 3000 and 3500kg and
4wd then it can be considered a dual purpose vehicle and can be tested, as
long as its Unladen Weight is less than 2040kg. Unfortunately none of the
documentation seems to carry the unladen weight.

Regards
Jeff

On or around 4 Jan 2006 05:56:42 -0800, "m0bcg"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>discovery logbooks dont seem to have the revenue weights on the
>logbooks but landrovers do for some reason .
> both my 90 logbooks have 3499kg revenue weights on them yet landrover
>gb list the weights as being 2500kg maximum for 90s and 3050kg for 110
>landrovers .
>

the SIII has "1511Kg unladen"
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Appearances: You don't really need make-up. Celebrate your authentic
face by frightening people in the street.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.

resume that if the V5C has a blank for revenue rate, then the computer must
have a blank. If that info was not provided on the original logbook (I am
talking the old cardboard thing here) I guess they have no right to enter
anything without finding out first from landrovers own records.

I am sending my V5C back at the moment to tell them I have changed the
engine number, but I am not telling them anything else such as the current
number of seats since the original number was never listed either.

Revenue weight I presume is something that was introduced later than 1973.
Anyway since I take it back to the dealers each year to have the MOT sorted
out, I presume they would be on top of the problem with dozens of the things
to MOT on a regular basis.


--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes



"m0bcg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> send youre v5c log book off and change the revenue weight to 002950kg
> [2950kg] as is listed for STATION WAGON in the landrover gb specs .
>
> then it should come up on computer at MOT test station as that weight
> and they will accept it as class 4 .
>
> i think the class 4 test centre ramps are for up to 3000kg and thats
> why there are problems with these "default" weights that the DVLA have
> been placing on mostly ALL landrover documents whether they are 90 or
> 110 or whatever .
>
> discovery logbooks dont seem to have the revenue weights on the
> logbooks but landrovers do for some reason .
> both my 90 logbooks have 3499kg revenue weights on them yet landrover
> gb list the weights as being 2500kg maximum for 90s and 3050kg for 110
> landrovers .
>
> even some landrover logbooks dont have anything shown on the revenue
> weight section .
>
> must be a cock up by the DVLA but they arent seemingly interested in
> sorting it out properly, yet all info is on theyre computer and could
> be rewritten easily, except for fact iof the cost it will be to send
> out new V5C logbooks to all landrover owners with correct info on .
>
> best thing to do is for you to change the details yourself to 2950kg
> and send logbook in for a new updated one .
>
> i have sent mine in for the 90s and 2500kg changes but have not
> received them back yet .
>
> i cannot think for life of me that a 110 landy is over 3 ton , just
> look at all those nissan and mitsubishi pickups going around that are
> much bigger and surely go to normal garages for MOTs .
>
> the revenue weight the DVLA is listing is the gross combined vehicle
> and trailer TOWING WEIGHT that a landrover can tow up to and not the
> weight of actual vehicle .
>
> just fill in the log book and send it off, then see what occurs when
> you go for test, if anything youll be under 3000kg on the computer and
> they should then be given the ok to test youre landy .
>
> its not that they cant do it, its just that the " COMPUTER SAYS NO " ,
> just like on LITTLE BRITAIN on the tv .
>

Had my 1983 110 CSW MOT'd in late Dec with no problems on the new computer
system, mind you there is no Revenue weight shown on the V5.

Regards

Neil


"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around 4 Jan 2006 05:56:42 -0800, "m0bcg"
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>>
>>discovery logbooks dont seem to have the revenue weights on the
>>logbooks but landrovers do for some reason .
>> both my 90 logbooks have 3499kg revenue weights on them yet landrover
>>gb list the weights as being 2500kg maximum for 90s and 3050kg for 110
>>landrovers .
>>
>
> the SIII has "1511Kg unladen"
> --
> Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
> Appearances: You don't really need make-up. Celebrate your authentic
> face by frightening people in the street.
> from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.

"Larry" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> resume that if the V5C has a blank for revenue rate, then the computer
must
> have a blank. If that info was not provided on the original logbook (I am
> talking the old cardboard thing here) I guess they have no right to enter
> anything without finding out first from landrovers own records.
>
> I am sending my V5C back at the moment to tell them I have changed the
> engine number, but I am not telling them anything else such as the current
> number of seats since the original number was never listed either.
>
> Revenue weight I presume is something that was introduced later than 1973.
> Anyway since I take it back to the dealers each year to have the MOT
sorted
> out, I presume they would be on top of the problem with dozens of the
things
> to MOT on a regular basis.
>
>
> --

I have no revenue weight on mine 1997, can only assume revenue weight
applies to commercial or non-Vat registered purchase ??

I would hope in that instance then that you never experience this MOT
problem as indeed I hope I do not either.

Sometimes I wonder though if you drove something officially scrapped, with
no plates, tax, MOT or nothing you would not be bothered in the future
because officially it would not exist at all.

Put it this way if plate recognition becomes the standard for identifying
tax, insurance and MOT defaulters, how are all those systems going to cope
with the total non existance of that which they depend upon for there
triggering of action.

If society becomes so reliant on robocops one supposes that the real time
equivalent will no longer bother to pull you up if they can't read see your
plates because that is no longer there job.

I am sorely tempted to take of or obscure my front plate as an experiment
and see if anyone notices or even cares. lets consider motorcycles that do
not even have to display a front plate any more how catch them ?



--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes




"Hirsty's" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
>
> "Larry" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> I have no revenue weight on mine 1997, can only assume revenue weight
> applies to commercial or non-Vat registered purchase ??
>
>

I also wonder if plate recognition is as good with the old white on black
plates, put it another way it may not be legal for me to fit such plates,
but if I bought a non dated registration legally , who would know the
difference anyway, what is a couple of years for a tired old series motor,
If I wanted to give it a series 2 face it would be no big deal to do that.

--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes



"Hirsty's" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
>
> "Larry" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> I have no revenue weight on mine 1997, can only assume revenue weight
> applies to commercial or non-Vat registered purchase ??
>
>

>
> the SIII has "1511Kg unladen"

Is that on the V5c Austin?

Jeff

i think some people are getting slightly mixed up over this including
myself .

basically someone previously posted that theyd taken a 110 landrover
for MOT [class 4] and were refused a test and told that because the
revenue weight said 3499kg that they had to have a CLASS 7 [large
commercial van/pick up] MOT test .

upon contacting the DVLA they were told to just fill in the form with
the correct weight and send it off for update .

most of the problem was due to the computer and its details shown and
that the computer basically refused the test on that vehicle , there
was not an easy way or probably even a suitable way to sort the problem
out and actually test the vehicle in that station on that day , whereby
an MOT test was perfectly ok to do on that vehicle in that test centre
..

i have just checked my VIN on my 90 defender .

2 tops lines show 2400kg and 5900kg .

now what happens when you subtract 2400 from 5900kg , you get 3500kg
which is the maximum gross towable weight i presume .

ie 2400vehicle + 3500towing = 5900kg total allowed .

my revenue weight on both my 90 v5c log books and previous log books
shows 3499kg revenue weight , this is clearly incorrect .

my VIN plate clearly shows 2400kg as vehicle [max weight ?] hence i
presume that my v5c for the 90s should have 2400kg as the revenue
weight .

110 landrovers probably should have 3050kg as theyre revenue weight and
not 3499kg .

the main problem as i can in all this is that the DVLA have by DEFAULT
put 3499kg on the majority of landrover 90 and 110 v5 documents as
theyre revenue weights , which is not right at all and is causing
problems for many people taking vehicles for MOT under class 4 tests .

the DVLA have somehow got the idea that landrovers are all the same ,
also the 3499kg figure they have used is not related to the vehicle but
to the towing limit of what can be towed by a landrover , hence its not
the vehicles revenue weight so needs correcting .

towing weight limit for all landrovers = 750kg unbraked and 3500kg
braked trailers .

if you look on the landrover gb website its lists gross weights off all
theyre vehicles , std and heavy duty , 90s are 2400kg std and 2500kg
heavy duty .

..std 110 hard top 3050kg heavy duty 3500kg

there is also a 110 station wagon weight of 2950kg and a uk
freestyle = 3500kg .

this isnt towing weight but gross vehicle weight .

the heaviest landrover 110 comes in at 3500kg if its heavy duty but the
vast majority of 110s will be 3050kg .

really needs the DVLA to get things correct, but not much chance of
that , so it needs everyone who might have this 3499kg "defaulted"
weight on theyre logbooks to change them to the correct values whatever
they may be , ie what the previous person posting said is shown on the
vehicles VIN plate , the top number on the plate .

i may have to change mine yet again because i put 2500kg and it should
have been 2400kg for my 90 .

i just want to make sure that by the time my MOT comes round my log
book is in order , otherwise i will get turned away at the test centre
like a lot of other have possibly done as well .

cheers all good luck .

>i think some people are getting slightly mixed up over this including
> myself .
>
> basically someone previously posted that theyd taken a 110 landrover
> for MOT [class 4] and were refused a test and told that because the
> revenue weight said 3499kg that they had to have a CLASS 7 [large
> commercial van/pick up] MOT test .
>
> upon contacting the DVLA they were told to just fill in the form with

Unfortunately the 'correct weight' (3050kg) is still too high for a class 4
unless the vehicle is regarded as a dual purpose vehicle.



> most of the problem was due to the computer and its details shown and
> that the computer basically refused the test on that vehicle , there
> was not an easy way or probably even a suitable way to sort the problem
> out and actually test the vehicle in that station on that day , whereby
> an MOT test was perfectly ok to do on that vehicle in that test centre
> .
>
> i have just checked my VIN on my 90 defender .
>
> 2 tops lines show 2400kg and 5900kg

Defender 90's are ok if the correct weight is shown on the V5 (ie less than
3000kg)
..
>
> now what happens when you subtract 2400 from 5900kg , you get 3500kg
> which is the maximum gross towable weight i presume .
>
> ie 2400vehicle + 3500towing = 5900kg total allowed .

Not correct: 2400kg is the gross weight of the vehicle, if you then add a
trailler it would be exceeded.
5900kg is the max gross weight for vehicle + gross trailer weight.

>
> my revenue weight on both my 90 v5c log books and previous log books
> shows 3499kg revenue weight , this is clearly incorrect .
>
> my VIN plate clearly shows 2400kg as vehicle [max weight ?] hence i
> presume that my v5c for the 90s should have 2400kg as the revenue
> weight .

Correct

>
> 110 landrovers probably should have 3050kg as theyre revenue weight and
> not 3499kg .

Also correct

>
> the main problem as i can in all this is that the DVLA have by DEFAULT
> put 3499kg on the majority of landrover 90 and 110 v5 documents as
> theyre revenue weights , which is not right at all and is causing
> problems for many people taking vehicles for MOT under class 4 tests .

The problem only goes away for 90's when the correct value is on the V5,
110's still have a problem.

> the DVLA have somehow got the idea that landrovers are all the same ,
> also the 3499kg figure they have used is not related to the vehicle but
> to the towing limit of what can be towed by a landrover , hence its not
> the vehicles revenue weight so needs correcting .

I think the 3499kg is just a default figure, being the upper limit for PLG.

The only way around the problem for 110's appears to be for the testing
station/DVLA accepting that they are 'dual-purpose vehicles', otherwise the
upper linit on Class 4 MOT's is 3000kg.

110's should be 'dual-purpose vehicles' because one of the definitions is
that they are between 3000 & 3500kg, be 4WD, and have a max unladen weight
of less than 2040kg.

The only problem is that there does not seem to be a way to record the ULW
on the V5, so you have no proof that you meet the requirement.

Regards
Jeff

....and Larry spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...


> lets consider
> motorcycles that do not even have to display a front plate any more
> how catch them ?

It seems to me that motorcycles are exempt from speed camera vans, which
tend to snap you from in front, where bikes have no number plate. Gatsos
generally snap you from the rear, and many bikes have small rear plates (I
always did) often with a fancy font that may not be readable. So, we have a
vehicle ~90% free of the risk of being clocked speeding, with the minor
irritation of occasionally being pulled for an illegal plate. Small fine,
no points, back on the road.

--
Rich
==============================
Disco 300 Tdi auto
S2a 88" SW
Tiggrr (V8 trialler)

On or around Wed, 4 Jan 2006 19:05:31 -0000, "Jeff" <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>
>>
>> the SIII has "1511Kg unladen"
>
>Is that on the V5c Austin?
>

yep. recently-issued, too.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Festina Lente" (Hasten slowly) Suetonius (c.70-c.140) Augustus, 25

On or around Wed, 4 Jan 2006 19:08:09 -0000, "Larry" <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>I also wonder if plate recognition is as good with the old white on black
>plates, put it another way it may not be legal for me to fit such plates,
>but if I bought a non dated registration legally , who would know the
>difference anyway, what is a couple of years for a tired old series motor,
>If I wanted to give it a series 2 face it would be no big deal to do that.

's legal on pre-74 vehicles. I spent much more money than I should have on
a set of pressed ally black-and-silver for the SIII, which is 1971.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Festina Lente" (Hasten slowly) Suetonius (c.70-c.140) Augustus, 25

">>> the SIII has "1511Kg unladen"
>>
>>Is that on the V5c Austin?
>>
>
> yep. recently-issued, too.
> --


Now that is good news, because it give a way of proving that a 110 meets the
'dual-purpose' rules.

Regards
Jeff

"Austin Shackles" wrote in message >>
>>discovery logbooks dont seem to have the revenue weights on the
>>logbooks but landrovers do for some reason .
>> both my 90 logbooks have 3499kg revenue weights on them yet landrover
>>gb list the weights as being 2500kg maximum for 90s and 3050kg for 110
>>landrovers .
>>
>
> the SIII has "1511Kg unladen"

Yes, this is all a bit confusing because so many of us are using Landys as
not neccessarily built and we use a commercial vehicle as daily "car"
transport. For reference, my 110 CSW, (as per another poster) has no weight
marked on V5C but my 109 Series 3 hard top is marked "1610kg Unladen".

Dartford Toll booths are quick to point out if you have got a van or a car
and despite these two vehicles being extremely similar, pass the 110 through
as a car and charge lorry rate on the 109 - Or am I just being done?

Nick Webster

thought it was erlier than 74 because if 74 is the cut off year for old
style plates mine qualifies as being registered in October 73.


--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes



"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around Wed, 4 Jan 2006 19:08:09 -0000, "Larry"
<[email protected]>
> enlightened us thusly:
>
>
> 's legal on pre-74 vehicles. I spent much more money than I should have
on
> a set of pressed ally black-and-silver for the SIII, which is 1971.
>
> --
> Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
> "Festina Lente" (Hasten slowly) Suetonius (c.70-c.140) Augustus, 25

Is that merely because one has windows at the back and the other is a "van"
?


--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes


"NW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
>

> Yes, this is all a bit confusing because so many of us are using Landys as
> not neccessarily built and we use a commercial vehicle as daily "car"
> transport. For reference, my 110 CSW, (as per another poster) has no
weight
> marked on V5C but my 109 Series 3 hard top is marked "1610kg Unladen".
>
> Dartford Toll booths are quick to point out if you have got a van or a
car
> and despite these two vehicles being extremely similar, pass the 110
through
> as a car and charge lorry rate on the 109 - Or am I just being done?
>
> Nick Webster
>
>

On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 10:21:57 +0000, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> wrote:

>'s legal on pre-74 vehicles. I spent much more money than I should have on
>a set of pressed ally black-and-silver for the SIII, which is 1971.

I always get the years for tax exemption and number plates mixed up
too.

For the black and silver plate Its actually pre 73.

from the dvla site:

vehicles constructed before 1.1.73 may display traditional style
"black and white" plates i.e. white, silver or grey characters on a
black plate.

also, ive never noticed this bit before -

Traditional number plates fitted to vehicles manufactured before 1
January 1973 are not required to display the mandatory character font,
but the characters must be easy to read.

Can we get some really tiny black and silver plates made up and use
them legally then? How about some braile ones or something