It's coming...

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Richard Brookman

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5249538.stm

Road pricing via a black box in your vehicle.

Much simpler and less intrusive system is what the French have on the
autoroutes - pay cash or credit card if you wish, transponder on the
windscreen and monthly billing if you wish. More-or-less dodgeproof, and no
Big Brother* implications.

*Ref: the Orwell novel, not the C4 slobfest, a distinction that the people I
work with seem not to have heard of.

--
Rich
==============================

I don't approve of signatures, so I don't have one.


 
On 2006-08-06, Richard Brookman <[email protected]> wrote:

> Much simpler and less intrusive system is what the French have on the
> autoroutes - pay cash or credit card if you wish, transponder on the
> windscreen and monthly billing if you wish. More-or-less dodgeproof, and no
> Big Brother* implications.

Also much more harder to dodge I'd have thought, I can't see how they
can stop the black box being messed with, if it's GPS based, some tin
foil will sort it. Of course "black box" could mean "transponder" in
media-speak. But then why bother with any of that when we've already
got number-plate reading cameras all over the place.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
 


> Road pricing via a black box in your vehicle.

Anyone remember the gnome that was "kidnapped" and sent its owner postcards
from around the world ( photos of itself by landmarks).

Well I wonder how the charging software in big brothers computer would
handle one of these trackers being posted around the wourld ??? :)))


 

"Richard Brookman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5249538.stm
>
> Road pricing via a black box in your vehicle.
>
> Much simpler and less intrusive system is what the French have on the
> autoroutes - pay cash or credit card if you wish, transponder on the
> windscreen and monthly billing if you wish. More-or-less dodgeproof, and
> no Big Brother* implications.
>
> *Ref: the Orwell novel, not the C4 slobfest, a distinction that the people
> I work with seem not to have heard of.
>
> --
> Rich
> ==============================
>
> I don't approve of signatures, so I don't have one.
Lets face the fact every time this shower decide to use a computer system it
costs between 3 and 10 times the original ( grossly overpriced) figure
doesnt work and crashes repeatedly, That they still do it makes you think
they have shares in a computer company or haven't the faintest idea about
the real world or no idea what a computer actually is
..
Derek

just for interest the following have sponsored Tonys boys
Bill Bottriell
Director of Solutions in Staffing & Software Gave £2,000
Richalis Ltd (software ccompany) Gave £8,000
QSP Ltd (web hosting) Gave £8,000 (March)
Dr David Potter (Psion) Gave £90,000
Compaq Computers Ltd Gave £7,500
Alan Sugar Chairman of Amstrad and Executive Chairman of Viglen LtdGave
£200,000
and of course stinker murdoch and friends
http://www.red-star-research.org.uk/subframe3.html
you would think amongst them someone would understand about computers (Alan
Sugar excepted)


 
Derek wrote:

|| "Richard Brookman" <[email protected]> wrote in
|| message news:[email protected]...
||| http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5249538.stm
|||
||| Road pricing via a black box in your vehicle.

|| Lets face the fact every time this shower decide to use a computer
|| system it costs between 3 and 10 times the original ( grossly
|| overpriced) figure doesnt work and crashes repeatedly, That they
|| still do it makes you think they have shares in a computer company

Don't be silly, Derek. They wouldn't be that obvious. However -

Rod Aldridge, Executive Chairman of Capita, gave New Labour £1m. He said
this was a "personal decision on my part".

Capita has won millions of pounds' worth of public contracts, including the
Criminal Records Bureau, collection of TV Licence fee, and provides IT
support for the London Congestion Charge, Driving Standards Agency and
National Rail. All of which, funnily enough, get their business through a
legal requirement on the general public. In other words, give Tony Bliar
enough wodge and he will shovel paying customers your way, by law. Nice
one.

--
Rich
==============================

I don't approve of signatures, so I don't have one.


 

"Richard Brookman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5249538.stm
>
> Road pricing via a black box in your vehicle.
>
> Much simpler and less intrusive system is what the French have on the
> autoroutes - pay cash or credit card if you wish, transponder on the
> windscreen and monthly billing if you wish. More-or-less dodgeproof, and
> no Big Brother* implications.
>

The Rebecca riots helped rid the country of toll roads once before in 1839
so only an idiot would think modern citizens would look more kindly on
extensive tolls...........................

Huw


 
Richard Brookman wrote:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5249538.stm
>
> Road pricing via a black box in your vehicle.

It'll never happen. I've never seen a piece of electronics that cannot
be bypassed somehow. They'll have to come up with a better solution
than that. Who is going to pay for all these black-boxes to be
retro-fitted to every vehicle in the UK?? The motorist I suppose.

This is all very well if they abolish VED to compensate. Also doesn't
help those poor sods that have no choice but to use their cars. My
father travels 10 miles to work every day in the countryside, there
simple is NO alternative. He isn't adding to congestion - there is none
on the rural roads! yet from what I saw they want to charge a fee per
mile on *every* road. Not that I care what happens in the UK on the
roads now! :) Mind you, in 3 years the road tolls I pay on my regular
routes in France have doubled. Difference in France is that there are
decent alternatives should I decide not to bother using the Autoroute,
which I find myself doing more often now I have to say.

Matt
 

> The Rebecca riots helped rid the country of toll roads once before in 1839
> so only an idiot would think modern citizens would look more kindly on
> extensive tolls...........................
>
> Huw

If you think i'm dressing up as a bird just to fight the tolls then you
can think again! unless it's a Saturday night........

Davina

 

"Matthew Maddock" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:p[email protected]...
> Richard Brookman wrote:
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5249538.stm
>>
>> Road pricing via a black box in your vehicle.
>
> It'll never happen.

They'll try.
The same technology can be used to automatically track your every movement
and levy automatic fines as well as tolls.
If the general public give one inch to allowing such technology they deserve
all they get in terms of the erosion of major civic liberty. The income
generation for the State is a secondary concern though a very serious issue.

Imagine, if you would, that a less benevolent Government was to gain power
somehow. It could keep track and suppress any opposition so very easily. The
power of today might assure us in so many ways that this is not the aim of
the technology and that it could and would never be used for such purposes,
but come on, of course it would. Surely the public is not that daft?

Huw


 
"Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> Surely the public is not that daft?

On average yes they are, it's what they rely on to keep control 8-(
Greg


 

"Greg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> Surely the public is not that daft?
>
> On average yes they are, it's what they rely on to keep control 8-(
> Greg
>
>

Well then *they* will soon have a grand tool for control of the public and
whatever other ingenious measures or social engineering solutions they wish
to employ. There could only be one step further and that would be to implant
spying devices in each individual human being with income generating
functions plus a method of deploying sanctions on it [and I use "it"
advisedly], including perhaps the ultimate sanction.
Not so far-fetched with today's technology and tomorrows computing power.

Huw



 

"Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Matthew Maddock" <[email protected]> wrote in
> Imagine, if you would, that a less benevolent Government was to gain power
> somehow. It could keep track and suppress any opposition so very easily. >
Ah are you meaning the sort of totalitarians
That would imprison you without trial or charges for 3 months?
That would have you arrested for speaking your mind about immigrants or
freedom fighters ?
That would go to war against all the advice of the military?
That would outlaw protest signs ( oddly and T shirts) because they
are"insulting" ?
That would have a pensioner arrested and thrown out of a party meeting for
protesting?

some question of unoccupied stables and doors waiting to be closed I reckon
Derek



 
On or around Sun, 6 Aug 2006 23:01:38 +0100, "Huw"
<hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:

>Imagine, if you would, that a less benevolent Government was to gain power
>somehow

I find it increasingly hard to imagine a less benevolent government than the
current lot. They're just better at disguising what they're up to than the
plain simple dictatorship.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Beyond the horizon of the place we lived when we were young / In a world
of magnets and miracles / Our thoughts strayed constantly and without
boundary / The ringing of the Division bell had begun. Pink Floyd (1994)
 
On Sun, 6 Aug 2006 23:40:13 +0100, Huw wrote:

> There could only be one step further and that would be to implant
> spying devices in each individual human being ...

Many already voluntarly carry such a device, it's called a mobile phone.

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



 
Derek wrote:
> "Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Matthew Maddock" <[email protected]> wrote
>> in Imagine, if you would, that a less benevolent Government was to
>> gain power somehow. It could keep track and suppress any opposition
>> so very easily. >
> Ah are you meaning the sort of totalitarians
> That would imprison you without trial or charges for 3 months?
> That would have you arrested for speaking your mind about immigrants
> or freedom fighters ?
> That would go to war against all the advice of the military?
> That would outlaw protest signs ( oddly and T shirts) because they
> are"insulting" ?
> That would have a pensioner arrested and thrown out of a party
> meeting for protesting?
>

That's the kind of thing, yes.

Huw


 
Dave Liquorice wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Aug 2006 23:40:13 +0100, Huw wrote:
>
>> There could only be one step further and that would be to implant
>> spying devices in each individual human being ...
>
> Many already voluntarly carry such a device, it's called a mobile
> phone.

That only works if it is switched on and used. It cannot yet limit your
civil liberty or raise revenue based on where you are. A combined phone and
tracker/revenue collector/sanctioning device implanted in a person is
doubtless not very far away. We are on the verge of a nanotechnology
revolution and such devices could be implanted by a dentist or with a
vaccine.

Huw


 
In message <[email protected]>
Austin Shackles <[email protected]> wrote:

> On or around Sun, 6 Aug 2006 23:01:38 +0100, "Huw"
> <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:
>
> >Imagine, if you would, that a less benevolent Government was to gain power
> >somehow
>
> I find it increasingly hard to imagine a less benevolent government than the
> current lot. They're just better at disguising what they're up to than the
> plain simple dictatorship.

So what's up with George? Oh you mean Smiling Tony The Irrelevant.

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
RISC-OS - Where have all the good guys gone?
Lib Dems - Townies keeping comedy alive
 
Huw wrote:
> Dave Liquorice wrote:
>> On Sun, 6 Aug 2006 23:40:13 +0100, Huw wrote:
>>
>>> There could only be one step further and that would be to implant
>>> spying devices in each individual human being ...
>> Many already voluntarly carry such a device, it's called a mobile
>> phone.
>
> That only works if it is switched on and used. It cannot yet limit your
> civil liberty or raise revenue based on where you are. A combined phone and
> tracker/revenue collector/sanctioning device implanted in a person is
> doubtless not very far away.
I saw an analysis years ago that says that we could store the postion of
a person over their entire life, to a precision of 10 metres, in less
than 10Gig.

Steve
 
Steve Taylor wrote:
> Huw wrote:
>
>> Dave Liquorice wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 6 Aug 2006 23:40:13 +0100, Huw wrote:
>>>
>>>> There could only be one step further and that would be to implant
>>>> spying devices in each individual human being ...
>>>
>>> Many already voluntarly carry such a device, it's called a mobile
>>> phone.
>>
>>
>> That only works if it is switched on and used. It cannot yet limit
>> your civil liberty or raise revenue based on where you are. A combined
>> phone and tracker/revenue collector/sanctioning device implanted in a
>> person is doubtless not very far away.
>
> I saw an analysis years ago that says that we could store the postion of
> a person over their entire life, to a precision of 10 metres, in less
> than 10Gig.
>
> Steve

Interesting. Is that based on the principle that most people don't
travel very far and wide? I wonder what the granularity of time slice
was (every second, minute, hour?)

Stuart
 
On Sunday, in article
<[email protected]>
[email protected] "Ian Rawlings" wrote:

> On 2006-08-06, Richard Brookman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Much simpler and less intrusive system is what the French have on the
> > autoroutes - pay cash or credit card if you wish, transponder on the
> > windscreen and monthly billing if you wish. More-or-less dodgeproof, and no
> > Big Brother* implications.
>
> Also much more harder to dodge I'd have thought, I can't see how they
> can stop the black box being messed with, if it's GPS based, some tin
> foil will sort it. Of course "black box" could mean "transponder" in
> media-speak. But then why bother with any of that when we've already
> got number-plate reading cameras all over the place.

Why bother? Because the number-plate reading isn't good enough. People
would get bills for every toe-rag with a fake plate, and there would be
enough unreliability in the system that they'd win in court.

The Police know how unreliable it all is. They can work with unreliable
info; the accountants cannot.


--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.

"I am Number Two," said Penfold. "You are Number Six."
 
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