In praise of the humble 19J

It seems the old 2.5td gets a pretty bad reputation, which I don't think is entirely deserved.

I have the somewhat infamous 19J in my 90, and all things considered it's pretty good for its time. It will cruise comfortably at around 65mph, and pull trailers without any real trouble. Fuel economy is around 25mpg. The turbo gives a useful increase of power over the old 12J engine which makes the vehicle that bit more usable in modern traffic.

It seems that the common advice when something breaks or wears out is to 'get rid of it and fit a 200tdi.' Now, the 200tdi is undeniably a better engine, but then, being newer, it should be. These days, however, the supply of rusty Discos with engines ripe for pillaging has pretty much dried up, and the engines are themselves all getting on a bit.

Apart from a blown head gasket (on inspection the rest of the engine was perfectly fine) my TD never caused me any trouble. Look after it and it should give relatively trouble-free service. Don't service it (waiting for it to fail so you can fit a tdi?) and unsurprisingly it will most likely break down.

Are the 200/300tdi engines better overall? Undoubtedly. Will I be replacing my 19J with one? Not likely.

i`ve had my 19j powered 90 for a year now and after all the horror stories i read before buying it runs like a dream, mine is used for laning and pay and play days only so gets about 22mpg, starts on the button and pulls well, well pleased with it.

FlyingPete said:

It seems the old 2.5td gets a pretty bad reputation, which I don't think is entirely deserved.

I have the somewhat infamous 19J in my 90, and all things considered it's pretty good for its time. It will cruise comfortably at around 65mph, and pull trailers without any real trouble. Fuel economy is around 25mpg. The turbo gives a useful increase of power over the old 12J engine which makes the vehicle that bit more usable in modern traffic.

It seems that the common advice when something breaks or wears out is to 'get rid of it and fit a 200tdi.' Now, the 200tdi is undeniably a better engine, but then, being newer, it should be. These days, however, the supply of rusty Discos with engines ripe for pillaging has pretty much dried up, and the engines are themselves all getting on
Apart from a blown head gasket (on inspection the rest of the engine was perfectly fine) my TD never caused me any trouble. Look after it and it should give relatively trouble-free service. Don't service it (waiting for it to fail so you can fit a tdi?) and unsurprisingly it will most likely break down.

Are the 200/300tdi engines better overall? Undoubtedly. Will I be replacing my 19J with one? Not likely.

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Totally agree with all you have said, 19j engine, look after it and it will look after you.

When I bought my 19j 110 off fleabay it felt like she had serious problems, massively underpowered, noisy generally not great. So concerned I was thinking of a swap.

A £17 new boost diaphragm, and 30 min tighten up the tappets and a full service and she pulls like a train. Will cruise at 70 and doesn't feel (That) sluggish any more.

Now planning to take her on a 3k mile round trip to France.

A well loved 19j will reward you! Don't swap too early.

Retrospaceman said:

When I bought my 19j 110 off fleabay it felt like she had serious problems, massively underpowered, noisy generally not great. So concerned I was thinking of a swap.

A £17 new boost diaphragm, and 30 min tighten up the tappets and a full service and she pulls like a train. Will cruise at 70 and doesn't feel (That) sluggish any more.

Now planning to take her on a 3k mile round trip to France.

A well loved 19j will reward you! Don't swap too early.

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Start with a decent one, no cracked blocks or heads, and maintain it carefully, keep the cooling and lube systems in top order, and you wont get a problem. Mine has been 100% since 2009, when I bought it. Tappets are important with all diesels, not sure why nobody ever seems to look at them?
The other thing that helps is to drive it like a Landrover, If you want to cruise all day at 80, get a car!

I agree there is nothing really wrong with the old 2.5TD lumps, I know of one with 250,000 - 280,000 miles on it. And no major issues in that time. And a few other high milers too.

That said, while it is a perfectly fine engine for trundling around, a "tweaked" 200Tdi is a completely different animal. Stock Tdi's are also fine, but tweaked ones really do make you smile when you drive them, lovely power delivery.

And if you do serious off road work, such as CCV style events, a 2.5TD can be underpowered in a 90 and prevent you making some hill climbs.

300bhp/ton said:

I agree there is nothing really wrong with the old 2.5TD lumps, I know of one with 250,000 - 280,000 miles on it. And no major issues in that time. And a few other high milers too.

That said, while it is a perfectly fine engine for trundling around, a "tweaked" 200Tdi is a completely different animal. Stock Tdi's are also fine, but tweaked ones really do make you smile when you drive them, lovely power delivery.

And if you do serious off road work, such as CCV style events, a 2.5TD can be underpowered in a 90 and prevent you making some hill climbs.

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If you say so.
Fields out the back of here are as steep as the roof of a house. And I have never had any power issues, only issues with traction, the clay turns to liquid when it is really wet.
Cant really see why power is an issue, it is gearing that is important off road, tractors don't always make a lot of power, low gearing, huge wheels, diff locks etc. make all the difference.
My 2.5 makes 85 horse, I have had series with 50 horse, would still go anywhere I wanted.

It's all about wheel speed. And in CCV events often in a short distance. A 2.5TD simply won't be able to generate the same wheel speed as quickly and maintain it. This isn't taking anything away from that engine, just a reality for certain kinds of off road use.

300bhp/ton said:

It's all about wheel speed. And in CCV events often in a short distance. A 2.5TD simply won't be able to generate the same wheel speed as quickly and maintain it. This isn't taking anything away from that engine, just a reality for certain kinds of off road use.

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As I say, if you say so.

Has not been my experience. Not driven in trials for years, but I drive off road every day with work, and have done for over 25 years. And I would always try and avoid "wheel speed" I like my wheels turning slowly, but gripping.

Gripping is fine, if there is grip. But just isn't the case on some terrain and under some conditions. I'm not trying to be funny about this. But I have seen it on many occasions. Some climbs even a 3.5 carb V8 80" coiler won't make it due to lack of grunt, while the 3.9 EFI and 4.6 V8's do. Shame I can't find something online to illustrate my point better.

300bhp/ton said:

Gripping is fine, if there is grip. But just isn't the case on some terrain and under some conditions.

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You see this with things like tractor pulling, where rather than going for maximum traction and high wheel torque, they aim to spin the wheels as fast as possible, flinging mud out behind at an impressive speed. This action creates a forward force on the tractor- the more mud you throw and the faster you throw it, the greater the force. With only 85hp, you won't be able to do this very well with a TD.

For most off road work though, a 19J is fine

300bhp/ton said:

Gripping is fine, if there is grip. But just isn't the case on some terrain and under some conditions. I'm not trying to be funny about this. But I have seen it on many occasions. Some climbs even a 3.5 carb V8 80" coiler won't make it due to lack of grunt, while the 3.9 EFI and 4.6 V8's do. Shame I can't find something online to illustrate my point better.

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Trials are a bit different to off road driving in the course of work and so on. They aim to build the course difficult, when you are working you will always seek the easiest route.
Funnily enough, one of the best triallers I have been in was a S1 with a carb v8, and dumper tyres, before they were outlawed. It was pretty awesome.
I wasn't suggesting that 19j would be a good engine for a trialler, indeed, I would probably go with a petrol engine if I was going to do that.
Power output is quite adequate for day to day off road use, though! More the road performance isn't up to modern standards.