FS: S3 109 FFR

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Someone

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Anyone in the Leeds (UK) area want to take on board a sad case of neglect?
1973 (so says Beverley museum) S3 109 FFR on a 'T' plate, hard top, still on
24V, 2x genuine XCLs and 2x remound XCLs with only about 100 miles on them,
full roof rack, with Sankey trailer too. Needs work (bulkhead welding, door
tops, and paint!). Currently Tax and MoT exempt but not been run for almost
2 years, batteries and heater hose stuffed. It sadly has to go - no time no
space!


 
On or around Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:19:43 +0000 (UTC), "Someone"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>Anyone in the Leeds (UK) area want to take on board a sad case of neglect?
>1973 (so says Beverley museum) S3 109 FFR on a 'T' plate, hard top, still on
>24V, 2x genuine XCLs and 2x remound XCLs with only about 100 miles on them,
>full roof rack, with Sankey trailer too. Needs work (bulkhead welding, door
>tops, and paint!). Currently Tax and MoT exempt but not been run for almost
>2 years, batteries and heater hose stuffed. It sadly has to go - no time no
>space!
>

's not tax exempt, unfortunately, not if it's made in 1973. 's got to be
1972 or earlier. and the onus is on the owner to prove it, AFAIK.

 
> >Anyone in the Leeds (UK) area want to take on board a sad case of
neglect?
> >1973 (so says Beverley museum) S3 109 FFR on a 'T' plate, hard top, still
on
> >24V, 2x genuine XCLs and 2x remound XCLs with only about 100 miles on
them,
> >full roof rack, with Sankey trailer too. Needs work (bulkhead welding,
door
> >tops, and paint!). Currently Tax and MoT exempt but not been run for
almost
> >2 years, batteries and heater hose stuffed. It sadly has to go - no time
no
> >space!
> >
>
> 's not tax exempt, unfortunately, not if it's made in 1973. 's got to be
> 1972 or earlier. and the onus is on the owner to prove it, AFAIK.

No - note the post - it is TAX *and* MoT exempt. It is registered as a fire
engine!


 
On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:40:10 +0100, "Someone" <[email protected]> wrote:

>> >Anyone in the Leeds (UK) area want to take on board a sad case of
>neglect?
>> >1973 (so says Beverley museum) S3 109 FFR on a 'T' plate, hard top, still
>on
>> >24V, 2x genuine XCLs and 2x remound XCLs with only about 100 miles on
>them,
>> >full roof rack, with Sankey trailer too. Needs work (bulkhead welding,
>door
>> >tops, and paint!). Currently Tax and MoT exempt but not been run for
>almost
>> >2 years, batteries and heater hose stuffed. It sadly has to go - no time
>no
>> >space!
>> >
>>
>> 's not tax exempt, unfortunately, not if it's made in 1973. 's got to be
>> 1972 or earlier. and the onus is on the owner to prove it, AFAIK.
>
>No - note the post - it is TAX *and* MoT exempt. It is registered as a fire
>engine!
>

Doesn't it have to be capable of use and actually used as such to be
tax exempt, plus made available to the emergency services in some
manner? My 101 is registered as an ambulance, but it is neither tax
nor MoT exempt.


--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt"
'03 Volvo V70

My Landies? http://www.seriesii.co.uk
Barcoding? http://www.bartec-systems.com
Tony Luckwill web archive at http://www.luckwill.com
 
> Doesn't it have to be capable of use and actually used as such to be
> tax exempt, plus made available to the emergency services in some
> manner? My 101 is registered as an ambulance, but it is neither tax
> nor MoT exempt.

It doesn't have to be available in the same way that company private engines
are not.

Ambulances are never MoT exempt - even from brand new they need one. For
ambulances the rules are that it must carry a stretcher case and be used as
an ambulance - no popping out to do the shopping. Also for ambulances if you
were out on the road you can be required to stop at RTAs (ok RTCs now) - but
a fire engine is a different beast and not all fight fires anyway, some just
carry equipment. Our local ambulance trust taxes all its vehicles - it costs
money but they can be used for other purposes!

But anyway all I want to do is find someone who wants this - otherwise I'll
eventually get beaten up and forced to scrap it!

To clarify - should have earlier - if you use it as anything other than its
current purpose you need to sort out the tax etc.



 
any pics?

Any how much do you want for it?


"Someone" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Anyone in the Leeds (UK) area want to take on board a sad case of neglect?
> 1973 (so says Beverley museum) S3 109 FFR on a 'T' plate, hard top, still
on
> 24V, 2x genuine XCLs and 2x remound XCLs with only about 100 miles on
them,
> full roof rack, with Sankey trailer too. Needs work (bulkhead welding,
door
> tops, and paint!). Currently Tax and MoT exempt but not been run for
almost
> 2 years, batteries and heater hose stuffed. It sadly has to go - no time
no
> space!
>
>


 
H'mm I have a fire extinguisher in the front of mine, and would be happy to
share it if there is a fire, can I be exempt now :)


--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes



"Someone" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>
> It doesn't have to be available in the same way that company private
engines
> are not.
>
> Ambulances are never MoT exempt - even from brand new they need one. For
> ambulances the rules are that it must carry a stretcher case and be used
as
> an ambulance - no popping out to do the shopping. Also for ambulances if
you
> were out on the road you can be required to stop at RTAs (ok RTCs now) -
but
> a fire engine is a different beast and not all fight fires anyway, some
just
> carry equipment. Our local ambulance trust taxes all its vehicles - it
costs
> money but they can be used for other purposes!
>
> But anyway all I want to do is find someone who wants this - otherwise
I'll
> eventually get beaten up and forced to scrap it!
>
> To clarify - should have earlier - if you use it as anything other than
its
> current purpose you need to sort out the tax etc.
>
>
>


 

"Mark Solesbury" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> any pics?
>
> Any how much do you want for it?

Bum! I had pics and now can't find any of them - I can take more but not
till saturday. I want as much as I can get ;) - ok around 600 - thats LR and
trailer but both need welding. Open to offers of course, especially if
someone will take it as-is so I don't need to get nerw batteries etc!!


 
On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:40:10 +0100, "Someone" <[email protected]> made me
spill my meths when he wrote:

>No - note the post - it is TAX *and* MoT exempt. It is registered as a fire
>engine!

Just to clarify then, was it a military fire engine? Or is it an
normal ex military Land Rover that was registered as a fire engine
after it left service?


--
Wayne Davies - Mobile 07989 556213 - Harrogate, N.Yorks, UK
 
On or around Thu, 14 Oct 2004 18:02:30 GMT, [email protected]
enlightened us thusly:

>On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:40:10 +0100, "Someone" <[email protected]> made me
>spill my meths when he wrote:
>
>>No - note the post - it is TAX *and* MoT exempt. It is registered as a fire
>>engine!
>
>Just to clarify then, was it a military fire engine? Or is it an
>normal ex military Land Rover that was registered as a fire engine
>after it left service?

sounds like it, if it's an FFR it ain't a fire engine. I smell a fiddle,
somewhere along the line.

 
> Just to clarify then, was it a military fire engine? Or is it an
> normal ex military Land Rover that was registered as a fire engine
> after it left service?

It left service as a normal FFR and was later registered as a fire engine
due to its use - but it has had no further mods (except it has a hard top
not a ragtop) e.g. does not have a pump fitted. It still has its military
plate on the seat box. The only actual mod I can spot is the regulator box
is behind the drivers seat rather than in the back - but the cables have not
been altered so that could be put back into place - or it may have even been
moved in service anyway.

I can take pics of all the bad bits if anyone is interested in it and the
trailer - and as I said I am open to offers. I suspect the bulkhead is
salvageable (I was going to try and weld the holes up), it had a new rear
x-member and one outrigger (near one petrol tank) a few years back but the
rest of the chassis seemed ok. But it has been stood for some time.

The trailer is a bit worse than I remebered it - it has rotted where the
floor meets the edges and around the drain holes (which now drain really
well ;) As far as I recall it shows a very slight bend in the chassis
probably from heavy weight over rough ground - but it was always good to
tow.

Might not have mentioned - 2286 petrol.


 
> sounds like it, if it's an FFR it ain't a fire engine. I smell a fiddle,
> somewhere along the line.

No, no fiddle - I wanted to put in a short ad rather than a long story, but
I now realise that raises even more questions. The fact that a vehicle isn't
red with a ladder in top and roller shutter side doors does not mean it
isn't a fire engine - it depends on its use etc.

I take it no-one is actually interested in the vehicle (as a possible
restoration or otherwise) - but I wanted to offer it first in case someone
was as it's a shame to see it deteriorate still further. But it is making a
useful shed at present!!




 
On or around Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:54:08 +0100, "Someone" <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>> sounds like it, if it's an FFR it ain't a fire engine. I smell a fiddle,
>> somewhere along the line.
>
>No, no fiddle - I wanted to put in a short ad rather than a long story, but
>I now realise that raises even more questions. The fact that a vehicle isn't
>red with a ladder in top and roller shutter side doors does not mean it
>isn't a fire engine - it depends on its use etc.

not implying it's *your* fiddle. But to register something which isn't a
fire engine and doesn't have fire engine equipment on it as a fire engine,
you have to think that the reason for doing it was in order that it should
be tax-and-mot exempt. Now, it could be that it was indeed equipped to put
out fires at some point...

>I take it no-one is actually interested in the vehicle (as a possible
>restoration or otherwise) - but I wanted to offer it first in case someone
>was as it's a shame to see it deteriorate still further. But it is making a
>useful shed at present!!

Chap down this way was after a cheap S3 to restore, I'll ask him.
 
Went back to Google to see all of this thread, as I used to own a
"1973" FFR that has some similarities to this vehicle.
No evidence of it being a fire engine (beyond my own extinguisher just
in case), and it isn't the same vehicle.

It had the generator panel where you describe it. In my experience the
generator and shunt panels could be in a variety of places. The rear
bulkhead was the most common - but it could have been either side.
I also had a new rear chassis section - it seems common in the
military 109s that they were used for more towing than they should
have.

And just to stir thing up, Beverley said it was a 1973 vehicle, but it
was tax free. (alas the MOT wasn't!!! lol)

'L' Reg. Beverley listed it as being delivered to Ashchurch on 17th
January 1973.
Land Rover product records show it coming off the production line on
30th or 31st August 1972 (can't remember exactly which, my copies of
the paperwork are filed away). A fluke, but a good one :)

Gaydon provided the necessary letter for the tax-free registration,
but the letter had nothing of any real interest on it.


Richard (M)

Richard Marsden
Winwaed Software Technology
http://www.winwaed.com
 
> It had the generator panel where you describe it. In my experience the
> generator and shunt panels could be in a variety of places. The rear
> bulkhead was the most common - but it could have been either side.
> I also had a new rear chassis section - it seems common in the
> military 109s that they were used for more towing than they should
> have.

Yes - I had the xmember replaced when I jacked it up and it started to bend!
New one came from Blanchards with short legs and these were plated into the
chassis. Thanks for the panel info, probably mine is there since service
days though a mate had one that was always getting wet in the back so he
shifted his similarly.

> 'L' Reg. Beverley listed it as being delivered to Ashchurch on 17th
> January 1973.
> Land Rover product records show it coming off the production line on
> 30th or 31st August 1972 (can't remember exactly which, my copies of
> the paperwork are filed away). A fluke, but a good one :)

That's useful. The letter I have from Beverley just says (if I remember)
mine was made between 72 and 73 (or might be 73 and 74) and that will
suffice if I want an age related plate.





 
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:54:08 +0100, "Someone" <[email protected]> made me
spill my meths when he wrote:

>I take it no-one is actually interested in the vehicle (as a possible
>restoration or otherwise)

Not at all, they have a following all of their own that you could
explore, but if it has been registered as a fire engine since leaving
service in order to benefit from a different tax and Mot status then
you haven't got the same appeal, that status will revert if someone
wants to restore it.

All the best.
--
Wayne Davies - Mobile 07989 556213 - Harrogate, N.Yorks, UK
 
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:40:37 +0100, "Someone" <[email protected]> made me
spill my meths when he wrote:

>That's useful. The letter I have from Beverley just says (if I remember)
>mine was made between 72 and 73 (or might be 73 and 74) and that will
>suffice if I want an age related plate.

I took my letter from Beverley to the tax office to get my age related
plate, they were very helpful, no trouble at all. I'm not sure if they
will accept it as proof of tax exemption etc unless they are happy
with a document that shows it was delivered to Ashchurch or wherever
on a given date that was before Dec 31 1972. The letter from Gaydon
will be accepted though. does it have a Declared Manufactured date on
the log book?
--
Wayne Davies - Mobile 07989 556213 - Harrogate, N.Yorks, UK
 
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 17:17:44 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

>The letter from Gaydon will be accepted though.

So will (incredibly) a letter from the Membership Secretary and
Registrar of a vehicle owners' club...


--
Some Land Roveresque (101 biased), links available
from: http://links.solis.co.uk/Geek/X4_Land_Rover/
I also have a little Land Rover site biased toward
my beloved 101 "Grumble", at: http://www.101fc.net


Reading this in 'alt.fan.landrover'? Did you know
there's a group FAQ: http://www.aflfaq.dyndns.info
 
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:55:37 +0100, Mother <"@ {mother} @"@101fc.net>
wrote:

>On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 17:17:44 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>The letter from Gaydon will be accepted though.
>
>So will (incredibly) a letter from the Membership Secretary and
>Registrar of a vehicle owners' club...

Go on then, what's the going rate.... ;-)


--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt"
'03 Volvo V70

My Landies? http://www.seriesii.co.uk
Barcoding? http://www.bartec-systems.com
Tony Luckwill web archive at http://www.luckwill.com
 
On or around Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:55:37 +0100, Mother <"@ {mother}
@"@101fc.net> enlightened us thusly:

>On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 17:17:44 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>The letter from Gaydon will be accepted though.
>
>So will (incredibly) a letter from the Membership Secretary and
>Registrar of a vehicle owners' club...

so, all the 101s are suddenly going to turn out to have been manufactured
before the end of 1972, then?

 
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