Disco spare wheel carriers

R

Richard Brookman

Guest

• Feb 16, 2006

• #1

Just a thought:

When I got my Disco I, the spare wheel carrier had one of the studs missing.
I got a s/h carrier from Niamh (4x4 Cymru) and that had all three, but one
was obviously welded in after a previous failure. When I got my Disco II,
that had a stud broken - sheared clean off at the base of the bolt. When I
took the wheel off to get new tyres fitted (and the best back as the spare),
one of the remaining two studs came off in my hand - failed weld between
stud and carrier.

Is this a common thing? Are they just badly put together at the factory, or
is there something else, like water collecting in the weld when it rains?

To be honest, seeing the stud sheared off gave me the cold sweats. I mean,
that's all there is keeping the wheels and the car together. It's a lot
harder to over-tighten the nuts at waist level, rather than near the floor
where you can out your weight on it. Or do they use inferior metal for the
carrier studs compared to the real ones on the hubs?

Anyone?

--
Rich
==============================

There are 10 kinds of people in the world - those who understand binary and
those who don't.

 

T

TonyB

Guest

• Feb 17, 2006

• #2

>
> Is this a common thing? Are they just badly put together at the factory,
or
> is there something else, like water collecting in the weld when it rains?
>
> To be honest, seeing the stud sheared off gave me the cold sweats. I
mean,
> that's all there is keeping the wheels and the car together. It's a lot
> harder to over-tighten the nuts at waist level, rather than near the floor
> where you can out your weight on it. Or do they use inferior metal for
the
> carrier studs compared to the real ones on the hubs?
>
> Anyone?

Yup, one of mine has gone. Maybe I overtightened it. It's running with two
at present but I'm going to get it fixed, I don't like the thought of that
wheel bouncing down the road behind me.
TonyB

 

S

SteveG

Guest

• Feb 17, 2006

• #3

Richard Brookman wrote:
> Just a thought:
>
> When I got my Disco I, the spare wheel carrier had one of the studs missing.
> I got a s/h carrier from Niamh (4x4 Cymru) and that had all three, but one
> was obviously welded in after a previous failure. When I got my Disco II,
> that had a stud broken - sheared clean off at the base of the bolt. When I
> took the wheel off to get new tyres fitted (and the best back as the spare),
> one of the remaining two studs came off in my hand - failed weld between
> stud and carrier.
>
> Is this a common thing? Are they just badly put together at the factory, or
> is there something else, like water collecting in the weld when it rains?
>
> To be honest, seeing the stud sheared off gave me the cold sweats. I mean,
> that's all there is keeping the wheels and the car together. It's a lot
> harder to over-tighten the nuts at waist level, rather than near the floor
> where you can out your weight on it. Or do they use inferior metal for the
> carrier studs compared to the real ones on the hubs?
>
> Anyone?
>

One of the numpties at the local tyre emporium sheared one of mine off
by cross threading the nut and then using the air gun on it. Company
paid for a nice new carrier and I still buy my tyres from them

--
Regards

Steve G

 

J

Judith

Guest

• Feb 17, 2006

• #4

On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 12:09:21 +0000 (UTC), "TonyB"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>> To be honest, seeing the stud sheared off gave me the cold sweats. I
>mean,
>> that's all there is keeping the wheels and the car together. It's a lot
>> harder to over-tighten the nuts at waist level, rather than near the floor
>> where you can out your weight on it. Or do they use inferior metal for
>the
>> carrier studs compared to the real ones on the hubs?
>>
>> Anyone?
>
>Yup, one of mine has gone. Maybe I overtightened it. It's running with two
>at present but I'm going to get it fixed, I don't like the thought of that
>wheel bouncing down the road behind me.

Mine is down to two studs as from half an hour ago when I twisted the
bottom one off. The bottom of the carrier is rusted away and the stud
was held on by 2mm of bendy rust.

I'd like to get a new carrier but I presume the internal door trim has
to come off and I HATE those jobs when all the clips break and half
the fixings fall off inside the door. Grrrr.

Judith

 

R

Richard Brookman

Guest

• Feb 17, 2006

• #5

....and Judith spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...

>
> I'd like to get a new carrier but I presume the internal door trim has
> to come off and I HATE those jobs when all the clips break and half
> the fixings fall off inside the door. Grrrr.
>
> Judith

Yes it does. PIG of a job. IIRC, on the series 1 Disco, the nuts behind
the carrier aren't captive, and most are hidden by the wiper mechanism.
Lots of wire, long thin fingers, and plenty of swearwords ready to be
deployed at a moment's notice. After it's done, the trim clips are a
breeze.

--
Rich
==============================

There are 10 kinds of people in the world - those who understand binary
and those who don't.

 

J

Judith

Guest

• Feb 17, 2006

• #6

On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 18:59:40 -0000, "Richard Brookman"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>> I'd like to get a new carrier but I presume the internal door trim has
>> to come off and I HATE those jobs when all the clips break and half
>> the fixings fall off inside the door. Grrrr.
>>
>> Judith
>
>Yes it does. PIG of a job. IIRC, on the series 1 Disco, the nuts behind
>the carrier aren't captive, and most are hidden by the wiper mechanism.
>Lots of wire, long thin fingers, and plenty of swearwords ready to be
>deployed at a moment's notice. After it's done, the trim clips are a
>breeze.

Sounds like a lovely job. I shall practise my swearing in advance.

Judith

 

R

Richard Brookman

Guest

• Feb 17, 2006

• #7

....and Judith spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...


> On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 18:59:40 -0000, "Richard Brookman"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>> I'd like to get a new carrier but I presume the internal door trim
>>> has to come off and I HATE those jobs when all the clips break and
>>> half the fixings fall off inside the door. Grrrr.
>>>
>>> Judith
>>
>> Yes it does. PIG of a job. IIRC, on the series 1 Disco, the nuts
>> behind the carrier aren't captive, and most are hidden by the wiper
>> mechanism. Lots of wire, long thin fingers, and plenty of swearwords
>> ready to be deployed at a moment's notice. After it's done, the
>> trim clips are a breeze.
>
> Sounds like a lovely job. I shall practise my swearing in advance.
>
> Judith

I would recommend a copy of Roger's Profanisaurus alongside the workshop
manual. It might even be more use.

--
Rich
==============================

There are 10 kinds of people in the world - those who understand binary
and those who don't.

 

D

Dave Liquorice

Guest

• Feb 17, 2006

• #8

On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 12:09:21 +0000 (UTC), TonyB wrote:

> I don't like the thought of that wheel bouncing down the road behind
> me.

On the whole I'd rather the spare fell off than one of the ones from a
corner! Landi rims and tyres a flippin 'eavy and rotating at 320rpm (ish
for 30mph) is going to go an awful long way... or make a big dent in
anything it hits.

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

 

A

Austin Shackles

Guest

• Feb 18, 2006

• #9

On or around Thu, 16 Feb 2006 21:45:06 -0000, "Richard Brookman"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

> Just a thought:
>
>When I got my Disco I, the spare wheel carrier had one of the studs missing.
>I got a s/h carrier from Niamh (4x4 Cymru) and that had all three, but one
>was obviously welded in after a previous failure. When I got my Disco II,
>that had a stud broken - sheared clean off at the base of the bolt. When I
>took the wheel off to get new tyres fitted (and the best back as the spare),
>one of the remaining two studs came off in my hand - failed weld between
>stud and carrier.
>
>Is this a common thing? Are they just badly put together at the factory, or
>is there something else, like water collecting in the weld when it rains?

inadequate manufacture in some way - seen it on mine too.

>To be honest, seeing the stud sheared off gave me the cold sweats. I mean,
>that's all there is keeping the wheels and the car together. It's a lot
>harder to over-tighten the nuts at waist level, rather than near the floor
>where you can out your weight on it. Or do they use inferior metal for the
>carrier studs compared to the real ones on the hubs?

after I welded the one stud that had come loose back into mine, I also
welded the other 2 more convincingly.

I suspect, though, that the actual cause of failure is people overtightening
them, especially on alloy wheels.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Quos deus vult perdere, prius dementat" Euripedes, quoted in
Boswell's "Johnson".

 

R

Richard Brookman

Guest

• Feb 18, 2006

• #10

....and Austin Shackles spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...

> I suspect, though, that the actual cause of failure is people
> overtightening them, especially on alloy wheels.

This is what I don't understand. Unless you actually set out to see if you
could snap a stud off, how could anyone overtighten a spare wheel nut? It's
not as if you can put much weight on it, like a wheelnut at ground level.
You'd have to really try. I am xx* stone, and I've tightened a few wheel
nuts as tight as I can make them, and I've never snapped a stud yet (I do
use a torque wrench these days, though). That's why I wonder if they are
made of a softer metal than the hub studs.

* xx = a few.

--
Rich
==============================

There are 10 kinds of people in the world - those who understand binary
and those who don't.

 

A

Austin Shackles

Guest

• Feb 18, 2006

• #11

On or around Sat, 18 Feb 2006 10:20:56 -0000, "Richard Brookman"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>...and Austin Shackles spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...
>
>> I suspect, though, that the actual cause of failure is people
>> overtightening them, especially on alloy wheels.
>
>This is what I don't understand. Unless you actually set out to see if you
>could snap a stud off, how could anyone overtighten a spare wheel nut? It's
>not as if you can put much weight on it, like a wheelnut at ground level.
>You'd have to really try. I am xx* stone, and I've tightened a few wheel
>nuts as tight as I can make them, and I've never snapped a stud yet (I do
>use a torque wrench these days, though). That's why I wonder if they are
>made of a softer metal than the hub studs.

the stud is probably much the same, but it's secured much more convincingly
to the wheel hub. The studs don't shear, they pull out of the thin sheet
steel of the carrier.

I reckon it'd not take too much effort to shear 'em.

BTW, tried out the new toy (air impact gun) on a 10mm stainless bolt. on
position 3 (highest) it sheared it without much effort. So that should
tighten the minibus wheelnuts nicely (meant to be 200-odd ft lb).

It also makes short work of undoing 'em. Better than the previous one, and
not that much more money when you consider that it came with a set of
sockets and stuff and a case:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/recno/18/product-Axminster-Heavy-Duty-Twin-Hammer-Impact-Wrench-30622.htm

They do a standard duty one for very little money, but not convinced - it
uses more air, for one thing, and with a relatively small compressor that
makes a difference.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"The breezy call of incense-breathing Morn, The swallow twittering
from the strawbuilt shed, The cock's shrill clarion, or the echoing
horn, No more shall rouse them from their lowly bed."
Thomas Gray, Elegy Written in a Country Churchyard.

 

R

Richard Brookman

Guest

• Feb 18, 2006

• #12

....and Austin Shackles spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...

> the stud is probably much the same, but it's secured much more
> convincingly to the wheel hub. The studs don't shear, they pull out
> of the thin sheet steel of the carrier.

Of the four failures I have come across, three were pulled out of the
carrier, but the fourth was definitely sheared. I found the remainder of it
still stuck in the wheelnut in the rear door pocket. The sheared surface
was about 50% rusted, so I suspect someone had overtightened it, the weather
had done its work, and then next time, kerplop.

--
Rich
==============================

There are 10 kinds of people in the world - those who understand binary
and those who don't.

 

T

TonyB

Guest

• Feb 19, 2006

• #13

"Richard Brookman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> ...and Austin Shackles spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...
>
> > the stud is probably much the same, but it's secured much more
> > convincingly to the wheel hub. The studs don't shear, they pull out
> > of the thin sheet steel of the carrier.
>
> Of the four failures I have come across, three were pulled out of the
> carrier, but the fourth was definitely sheared. I found the remainder of
it
> still stuck in the wheelnut in the rear door pocket. The sheared surface
> was about 50% rusted, so I suspect someone had overtightened it, the
weather
> had done its work, and then next time, kerplop.

I was just tightening mine with the wheel brace one handed, it came through
like it was mounted in cheese.
TonyB

 

R

Richard Brookman

Guest

• Feb 19, 2006

• #14

....and TonyB spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...


> "Richard Brookman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> ...and Austin Shackles spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...
>>
>>> the stud is probably much the same, but it's secured much more
>>> convincingly to the wheel hub. The studs don't shear, they pull out
>>> of the thin sheet steel of the carrier.
>>
>> Of the four failures I have come across, three were pulled out of the
>> carrier, but the fourth was definitely sheared. I found the
>> remainder of it still stuck in the wheelnut in the rear door pocket.
>> The sheared surface was about 50% rusted, so I suspect someone had
>> overtightened it, the weather had done its work, and then next time,
>> kerplop.
>
> I was just tightening mine with the wheel brace one handed, it came
> through like it was mounted in cheese.
> TonyB

This is really worrying! If one can do it, all three can do it, and as
someone has already said, a LR wheel and tyre bouncing down the road after
you is going to do someone some damage. It's more likely to fail if the
vehicle is negotiating rough ground where speeds will be low, admittedly,
but still...

I spent a bit of time yesterday with my new carrier, applying copious
amounts of grease to the back of the studs and to the little gap on the
front side where they exit from the carrier. I think the design may have
changed, as the back of the stud is now a raised boss about the size of an
old penny and the welding around it is smooth. I feel a bit more confident
about this one.

--
Rich
==============================

There are 10 kinds of people in the world - those who understand binary
and those who don't.