Disco II systems failure

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D

Div

Guest
G'day,

When I got in my Disco TD5 to drive home tonight, the warning lights for ABS, TC
and HDC stayed on after the motor started. When I went to check it after dinner,
the SLS and Off-road indicators also stayed on.

Is there anything I can check myself before taking it to a repairer? Could I
actually repair it myself?

Cheers,
Div


 
On Thu, 26 May 2005 23:49:17 +1000, Div wrote:

> Is there anything I can check myself before taking it to a repairer?

It's had a brain storm, try disconnecting the battery negative for 10
mins and whilst it is powered down check all the fuses in the engine
compartment and by the steering column. Mine through a real wobbly
when F16 blew, wouldn't do anything, no starting, nothing, just six
"boings" and all segements of the automatic gear indiactor flashing.

Had to be lo-loadered to the dealer (25 miles away) and they took
several hours to find it. Fortunately under the Approved Land Rover
Warranty. B-)

> Could I actually repair it myself?

I doubt it if a "reboot" doesn't sort it out. It may be something
simple like a plug half fallen out of one of the many CUs but which
one and where...

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



 

"Dave Liquorice" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 26 May 2005 23:49:17 +1000, Div wrote:
>
> > Is there anything I can check myself before taking it to a repairer?
>
> It's had a brain storm, try disconnecting the battery negative for 10
> mins and whilst it is powered down check all the fuses in the engine
> compartment and by the steering column. Mine through a real wobbly
> when F16 blew, wouldn't do anything, no starting, nothing, just six
> "boings" and all segements of the automatic gear indiactor flashing.
>
> Had to be lo-loadered to the dealer (25 miles away) and they took
> several hours to find it. Fortunately under the Approved Land Rover
> Warranty. B-)
>
> > Could I actually repair it myself?
>
> I doubt it if a "reboot" doesn't sort it out. It may be something
> simple like a plug half fallen out of one of the many CUs but which
> one and where...
>

Dave,

Thanks for the reply. My local dealer says he can reset it for me. They're
pretty good so if he didn't mention a charge I doubt there would be one. I'll
try that first.

Cheers,
Div


 
On Sat, 28 May 2005 00:21:03 +1000, Div wrote:

> My local dealer says he can reset it for me. They're pretty good so
> if he didn't mention a charge I doubt there would be one. I'll
> try that first.

Probably best. At least yours is still driveable mine was effectively
2+ tonnes of useless metal and plastic. The only things that worked
were the mechanical things that you operated like drivers door lock or
switches but the majority of those didn't produce any result because
the computers where down, frightening.

When you take it in bear in mind that you don't know the true state of
the ACE, SLS etc they may or may not be working properly. Take it easy
and slow...

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



 

"Dave Liquorice" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 28 May 2005 00:21:03 +1000, Div wrote:
>
> > My local dealer says he can reset it for me. They're pretty good so
> > if he didn't mention a charge I doubt there would be one. I'll
> > try that first.
>
> Probably best. At least yours is still driveable mine was effectively
> 2+ tonnes of useless metal and plastic. The only things that worked
> were the mechanical things that you operated like drivers door lock or
> switches but the majority of those didn't produce any result because
> the computers where down, frightening.
>
> When you take it in bear in mind that you don't know the true state of
> the ACE, SLS etc they may or may not be working properly. Take it easy
> and slow...
>
> --
> Cheers [email protected]
> Dave. pam is missing e-mail
>
Well, I took it in for a reset. The dealer ran the testbook against it, and
<sob> a flutter-valve switch in the ABS modulator is stuffed. That's a $AU6000+
replacement part!
It's a 95% likelihood, but there's another Technical Bulletin that can be done
to prove it conclusively. That's about $AU100 to do. I expect I will have it
done before spending the big bikkies.
Because the vehicle is still stopping ok (just without ABS assistance) I'm
taking my time to consider all the alternatives. I'm also driving even more
defensively than usual.

Cheers,
Div


 
On Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:34:48 +1000, Div wrote:

> Well, I took it in for a reset. The dealer ran the testbook against
> it, and <sob> a flutter-valve switch in the ABS modulator is
> stuffed. That's a $AU6000+

or GBP2,500. I find a single part of a bigger unit really costing that
much hard to believe, it's a noticeable percentage of the vehical
cost. Or is that price supplied and fitted but even so that's an awful
lot of labour...

> Because the vehicle is still stopping ok (just without ABS
> assistance) I'm taking my time to consider all the alternatives. I'm
> also driving even more defensively than usual.

Quite, anyone who drives such that the "toys" cut in all the time
needs to learn how to drive... OK the odd patch of gravel at a
junction will wake up the ABS or bit of mud/wet grass the TC on
occasion but when on iffy surfaces I deliberately try to drive so as
not to wake them up.

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



 
On or around Sat, 04 Jun 2005 11:54:30 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>On Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:34:48 +1000, Div wrote:
>
>> Well, I took it in for a reset. The dealer ran the testbook against
>> it, and <sob> a flutter-valve switch in the ABS modulator is
>> stuffed. That's a $AU6000+
>
>or GBP2,500. I find a single part of a bigger unit really costing that
>much hard to believe, it's a noticeable percentage of the vehical
>cost. Or is that price supplied and fitted but even so that's an awful
>lot of labour...

that's fecking ludicrous.

>
>> Because the vehicle is still stopping ok (just without ABS
>> assistance) I'm taking my time to consider all the alternatives. I'm
>> also driving even more defensively than usual.
>
>Quite, anyone who drives such that the "toys" cut in all the time
>needs to learn how to drive... OK the odd patch of gravel at a
>junction will wake up the ABS or bit of mud/wet grass the TC on
>occasion but when on iffy surfaces I deliberately try to drive so as
>not to wake them up.

My sierra 4x4 had ABS when I first had it. I think it came into play in
anger (rather than provoking it to see if it worked) about 3 times, and
maybe once saved me from a collision, but I could probably have still
avoided a collision anyway (unexpectedly slippery road surface). After a
yera or so, in getting the hub carrier off to remove a stuck failed bearing,
I damaged the ABS sensor (wasn't much choice at the time) with the result
that the system stopped working. Quite frankly, I didn't think it worth the
100+ quid it cost for a new sensor to fix it. If I ever get to fixing it up
properly, I'll probably repair it for the sake of completeness.


--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
In Touch: Get in touch with yourself by touching yourself.
If somebody is watching, stop touching yourself.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.
 
>>> Because the vehicle is still stopping ok (just without ABS
>>> assistance) I'm taking my time to consider all the alternatives. I'm
>>> also driving even more defensively than usual.
>>
>>Quite, anyone who drives such that the "toys" cut in all the time
>>needs to learn how to drive... OK the odd patch of gravel at a
>>junction will wake up the ABS or bit of mud/wet grass the TC on
>>occasion but when on iffy surfaces I deliberately try to drive so as
>>not to wake them up.
>
>My sierra 4x4 had ABS when I first had it. I think it came into play in
>anger (rather than provoking it to see if it worked) about 3 times, and
>maybe once saved me from a collision, but I could probably have still
>avoided a collision anyway (unexpectedly slippery road surface). After a
>yera or so, in getting the hub carrier off to remove a stuck failed bearing,
>I damaged the ABS sensor (wasn't much choice at the time) with the result
>that the system stopped working. Quite frankly, I didn't think it worth the
>100+ quid it cost for a new sensor to fix it. If I ever get to fixing it up
>properly, I'll probably repair it for the sake of completeness.

It's impossible to know whether all these 'driver aids' make that much
difference. I've had ABS kick in a few times, but only as I've been
thinking "the brakes are going to lock here". I've had cars with and
without traction control, and on one in particular it was so slow to
respond and so vicious when it did that it was more menace than help.

That said, a few weeks ago I put the Volvo sideways on an
(unexpectedly) soggy roundabout. The DSTCXYZ (or whatever the acronym
is) did clevery things with brakes and such and made a difference.
Would I have spun without it? No idea...

Would I have been going slower in a car without all the safety and
comfort? Probably....


--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt"
'03 Volvo V70
 

"Dave Liquorice" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:34:48 +1000, Div wrote:
>
> > Well, I took it in for a reset. The dealer ran the testbook against
> > it, and <sob> a flutter-valve switch in the ABS modulator is
> > stuffed. That's a $AU6000+
>
> or GBP2,500. I find a single part of a bigger unit really costing that
> much hard to believe, it's a noticeable percentage of the vehical
> cost. Or is that price supplied and fitted but even so that's an awful
> lot of labour...
>

The price is for a genuine LR part. Fitting takes about 1.5 hours.

>
> --
> Cheers [email protected]
> Dave. pam is missing e-mail
>

I am checking the alternatives - used (probably discounted cos there's no
warranty), non-genuine part (I've got the number of an importer of similar units
for trucks), flying to another country to buy one :) (anyone know a good
wholesaler). Before I do anything I will have the conclusive test done.

Cheers,
Div


 

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around Sat, 04 Jun 2005 11:54:30 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
> >On Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:34:48 +1000, Div wrote:
> >
> >> Well, I took it in for a reset. The dealer ran the testbook against
> >> it, and <sob> a flutter-valve switch in the ABS modulator is
> >> stuffed. That's a $AU6000+
> >
> >or GBP2,500. I find a single part of a bigger unit really costing that
> >much hard to believe, it's a noticeable percentage of the vehical
> >cost. Or is that price supplied and fitted but even so that's an awful
> >lot of labour...
>
> that's fecking ludicrous.

I said a very similar thing when I heard.

>
> >
< snip> that the system stopped working. Quite frankly, I didn't think it worth
the
> 100+ quid it cost for a new sensor to fix it. If I ever get to fixing it up
> properly, I'll probably repair it for the sake of completeness.
>

I thought about living without ABS until I spoke to the Driver Training Officer
in the LROC Victoria. Without TC it's easier to get hung up once a wheel is off
the track. Lift two (diagonally opposite) wheels and you ain't goin' nowhere,
baby! Hill starts in the auto are also riskier without TC.

A different alternative we came up with is to fit the after-market diff lock
lever. That's a lot cheaper.

Cheers,
Div


 
On 2005-06-04, Tim Hobbs <[email protected]> wrote:

> It's impossible to know whether all these 'driver aids' make that much
> difference. I've had ABS kick in a few times, but only as I've been

I used to have an Audi Quattro which had a switch to turn the ABS
on and off.

I was able to take this onto a police skid pan, and I have to say that
the ABS made a noticeable difference to both stopping distance and
the ability to steer and brake.

While in theory it's possible to achieve shorter stopping distances
by cadence braking (at least, according to the Bottom Gear crowd),
I think this is only possible for exceptionally gifted drivers. The
police-trained driving instructor couldn't improve on the ABS!

-- Pete
 

>
>While in theory it's possible to achieve shorter stopping distances
>by cadence braking (at least, according to the Bottom Gear crowd),
>I think this is only possible for exceptionally gifted drivers. The
>police-trained driving instructor couldn't improve on the ABS!
>
>-- Pete

And even the perfect driver can only control the brake pressure on all
four wheels at once - ABS systems do it on each wheel independently.
I've done skidpan training and whilst it is possible to get close to
ABS performance by threshold and cadence techiques, the real gain is
on mixed surfaces. It's impossible to brake hard with one wheel on
gravel and the other on tarmac without spinning - ABS keeps you
straight rather than pitching you across the road into the oncoming
vehicle.
--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt"
'03 Volvo V70
 
rOn or around Mon, 6 Jun 2005 10:02:19 +0100, Pete Young
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>While in theory it's possible to achieve shorter stopping distances
>by cadence braking (at least, according to the Bottom Gear crowd),
>I think this is only possible for exceptionally gifted drivers. The
>police-trained driving instructor couldn't improve on the ABS!

it's also dependant on surface, though. dry, loose snow and dry gravel
apparently give more braking with locked wheels.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"For when the One Great Scorer comes to write against your name,
He marks - not that you won or lost - but how you played the game"
Grantland Rice (1880-1954). my opinions are just that
 
On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 21:49:15 +0100, Austin Shackles wrote:

> it's also dependant on surface, though. dry, loose snow and dry
> gravel apparently give more braking with locked wheels.

I've heard that as well but the theory is that the loose material
builds up as a wedge infront of the wheel. So the snow/gravel has to
reasonably deep rather than a handful of peas on the tarmac or the
three snowflakes that sends most of the country into a panic.

Even then I'm not convinced about snow. I've ended up in a gentle
slide on a couple of inches of snow, winding full lock on and still
going the other direction. Realising I'm braking (not hard), lift off
the brake and instantly get full traction back and leap across the
road due to the full lock...

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



 
On or around Tue, 07 Jun 2005 00:16:00 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 21:49:15 +0100, Austin Shackles wrote:
>
>> it's also dependant on surface, though. dry, loose snow and dry
>> gravel apparently give more braking with locked wheels.
>
>I've heard that as well but the theory is that the loose material
>builds up as a wedge infront of the wheel. So the snow/gravel has to
>reasonably deep rather than a handful of peas on the tarmac or the
>three snowflakes that sends most of the country into a panic.
>
>Even then I'm not convinced about snow. I've ended up in a gentle
>slide on a couple of inches of snow, winding full lock on and still
>going the other direction. Realising I'm braking (not hard), lift off
>the brake and instantly get full traction back and leap across the
>road due to the full lock...

I've had a car stop impressively quickly in deepish snow, but yes, it does
need enough of it. The comments about gravel come form the rallying boys,
and should be taken with a pinch of salt.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
Blue: The sky is blue for a reason. Blue light is a source of strength
and harmony in the cosmos. Create a blue light in your life by
telephoning the police
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.
 
On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 07:24:00 +0100, Austin Shackles wrote:

> I've had a car stop impressively quickly in deepish snow,

Well, yes I had the Disco stop rather quickly in snow this winter from
a crawl. But on investigation the nearside front had dropped into a
drainage gully and snow in front of the truck(*) was up to the flat
top of the bumper... Cleared that away an off I went, to pull off some
one coming the other way trying to take a "short cut" in an ordinary
car but had got stuck on essentially clear road compared to what I had
come over...

(*) What is a nice generic shorthand monica for a Land rover sized
vehicle? Truck is to "industrial", car to "domestic"...

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



 

"Div" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

Thought you might like to know - my ABS is back!

I turned a bit sharpish on the gravel carpark, and the TC light came on. Sudden
braking showed the ABS was working. A bit of "scientific" hooning on the gravel
confirmed it :)

Don't ask me why! I haven't done anything but talk about it.

Cheers,
Div


 
On Wed, 8 Jun 2005 23:46:23 +1000, Div wrote:

> Thought you might like to know - my ABS is back!
>
> I turned a bit sharpish on the gravel carpark, and the TC light came
> on. Sudden braking showed the ABS was working. A bit of "scientific"
> hooning on the gravel confirmed it :)
>
> Don't ask me why! I haven't done anything but talk about it.

Presumably the expensive "flutter valve" has un jammed itself. Bit
like my aircon the same day. Did a 20 mile drive switching in and out
of "econ" and coming to the conclusion that the compressor wasn't.

Go over a bump 50yds from home and a few seconds later I'm blasted by
cold air... Reseated the connection to the compressor, which I assume
controls an electricaly operated clutch in the pully just in case but
it nows seems to be behaving itself. I don't normally have the
compressor on, it's not needed in this country very often.

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



 
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