Defra off road policy

To Whom It May Concern,



I am Secretary of Bradford & District Motor Club, my name is Stuart Cameron
and I am contacting you regarding the Single Payment Scheme that is to
be/being paid to farmers in the UK, and its affect on off-road motorsport.



As many of you will be aware, any, and more than likely ALL, off road
motorsport is under GRAVE threat of extinction due to the new SINGLE PAYMENT
SCHEME being paid to farmers nationwide.



Is this the EU, Labour Government's and DEFRA's way of protecting the
countryside but forgetting the many organised motorsport activities that
take place in and around the country every week? It is ONLY these events
that it will affect as it will not stop the "I will go anywhere" brigade. It
is not only the concern of riders, drivers etc, but also the support
industry. Bike, Quad, 4x4 dealers etc will all be affected in one way or
another.



I am trying to organise a petition to be given to the new government as soon
as possible after the election. I am looking for emails/letters of support
and any help whatsoever. Remember this will near stop ALL off road
motorsport.

Please don't sit back and think this will not affect me, if you are involved
in off road motorsport in any way IT WILL !! Just take 2 minutes to send an
email or letter of protest PLEASE.



If any organisations have already arranged their own petitions could you
please let me know so that we can work together and present a united front.



The BIGGER the pile the better !!



If you have already signed a petition DO NOT sign other petitions because if
the powers that be see duplicate names it will de-value the petition.

If you are in the process of organising such a petition / protest please do
let me know.



Emails should be sent to:

defrapetition@(removethisandbrackets)bradfordtrials.co.uk

all email address will be erased after the petition is presented to the new
government/DEFRA.



NO EMAIL ADDRESSES WILL BE GIVEN OUT TO ANY OTHER PERSON / ORGANISATION.



Letters to:

DEFRA PETITION

C/o Stuart Cameron

30 Lymington Drive

Bradford

BD4 9HA Please do mark the envelope DEFRA PETITION !!!!!

On 2005-04-15, tomtom <[email protected]> wrote:

> To Whom It May Concern,

... "here is a badly worded letter asking you to send an email to
someone to complain about a threat we don't explain that is as a
result of a scheme that we also don't explain".

Hmm, needs work....

If you want support, I'd suggest you explain yourself a little more.

--
For every expert, there is an equal but opposite expert

On or around Sat, 16 Apr 2005 13:18:10 +0100, Ian Rawlings
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>On 2005-04-15, tomtom <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> To Whom It May Concern,
>
>.. "here is a badly worded letter asking you to send an email to
>someone to complain about a threat we don't explain that is as a
>result of a scheme that we also don't explain".
>
>Hmm, needs work....
>
>If you want support, I'd suggest you explain yourself a little more.

I know what it's about, but then again, I know something of the background
of the Single Farm Payment. So yes, you're right, a bit more explanation
for those who don't know would be useful.

While we're on the subject, anyone know how to set up an online petition
thing, of the kind which is correctly set up to be presented to our lords
and masters in waste-money-ster? I believe there are certain things One Has
To Do, in order that it be considered an Official Petition.

I've a mind to start one about the extra 10% I keep having to pay on me road
tax, merely because I don't happen to be able to afford 175 notes at the
particular time it's due. I don't believe that it really costs an extra 10%
to send out 2 automated reminders per year rather than one... I suspect it
probably costs about an extra 50p. 's a fecking con, anyway - and yet
another thing which is an extra burden on the less-well-off - if you're on a
single state pension, for example, the road tax represents 2 weeks' money.


--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
If all be true that I do think, There are five reasons we should drink;
Good wine, a friend, or being dry, Or lest we should be by and by;
Or any other reason why. - Henry Aldrich (1647 - 1710)

In message <[email protected]>
Austin Shackles <[email protected]> wrote:

> On or around Sat, 16 Apr 2005 13:18:10 +0100, Ian Rawlings
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
> >On 2005-04-15, tomtom <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> To Whom It May Concern,
> >
> >.. "here is a badly worded letter asking you to send an email to
> >someone to complain about a threat we don't explain that is as a
> >result of a scheme that we also don't explain".
> >
> >Hmm, needs work....
> >
> >If you want support, I'd suggest you explain yourself a little more.
>
> I know what it's about, but then again, I know something of the background
> of the Single Farm Payment. So yes, you're right, a bit more explanation
> for those who don't know would be useful.
>
> While we're on the subject, anyone know how to set up an online petition
> thing, of the kind which is correctly set up to be presented to our lords
> and masters in waste-money-ster? I believe there are certain things One Has
> To Do, in order that it be considered an Official Petition.
>

I can't help thinking the only major difference between a
electronic petition and a paper on is that the bloke on
the door at No. 10 can just press "Delete" instead of having
to carrry a load of paper to the skip out the back.

> I've a mind to start one about the extra 10% I keep having to pay on me road
> tax, merely because I don't happen to be able to afford 175 notes at the
> particular time it's due. I don't believe that it really costs an extra 10%
> to send out 2 automated reminders per year rather than one... I suspect it
> probably costs about an extra 50p. 's a fecking con, anyway - and yet
> another thing which is an extra burden on the less-well-off - if you're on a
> single state pension, for example, the road tax represents 2 weeks' money.
>
>

You'll only get attention if you get the media onboard - and
that won't happend unless your black, gay or arty-farty.
If Smiling Tony (and to a large extent the media) couldn't
be bothered with 700,000 coutry types wondering round London
then you and I have bugger all chance.
<cynical mode>
Unless you get a child, preferably with a life threatening
illness, or disability, involved.
</cynical mode>

Smiling Tony and the others don't need our vote, so we
don't count.

Yes, I am a cynic, arn't I

Richard
--

On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 14:31:48 +0100, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> wrote:

>if you're on a
>single state pension, for example, the road tax represents 2 weeks' money.

Ah! But you won't need a car if you're on an OAPension cos you'll
have your free bus pass, innit?

(So you can go out anytime you like. As long as it's not peak hours
or on a Sunday or late at night or you live in the countryside.)

Judith

The DEFRA Single Payment Scheme being paid to farmers EXCLUDES all
motorsport
ie NOT a motor powered vehicle anywhere on farmland. And YES that can
include their own vehicles!
Typical replies that I should have expected.
There are over 7000 events each year on farmland from motorcycle trials to
4x4 events, these will all go.
Events are already being cancelled, dont say I did not warn you.
I tried to keep the posting as brief as possible.

"tomtom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> To Whom It May Concern,
>
>
>
> I am Secretary of Bradford & District Motor Club, my name is Stuart
> Cameron and I am contacting you regarding the Single Payment Scheme that
> is to be/being paid to farmers in the UK, and its affect on off-road
> motorsport.
>
>
>
> As many of you will be aware, any, and more than likely ALL, off road
> motorsport is under GRAVE threat of extinction due to the new SINGLE
> PAYMENT SCHEME being paid to farmers nationwide.
>
>
>
> Is this the EU, Labour Government's and DEFRA's way of protecting the
> countryside but forgetting the many organised motorsport activities that
> take place in and around the country every week? It is ONLY these events
> that it will affect as it will not stop the "I will go anywhere" brigade.
> It is not only the concern of riders, drivers etc, but also the support
> industry. Bike, Quad, 4x4 dealers etc will all be affected in one way or
> another.
>
>
>
> I am trying to organise a petition to be given to the new government as
> soon as possible after the election. I am looking for emails/letters of
> support and any help whatsoever. Remember this will near stop ALL off road
> motorsport.
>
> Please don't sit back and think this will not affect me, if you are
> involved in off road motorsport in any way IT WILL !! Just take 2 minutes
> to send an email or letter of protest PLEASE.
>
>
>
> If any organisations have already arranged their own petitions could you
> please let me know so that we can work together and present a united
> front.
>
>
>
> The BIGGER the pile the better !!
>
>
>
> If you have already signed a petition DO NOT sign other petitions because
> if the powers that be see duplicate names it will de-value the petition.
>
> If you are in the process of organising such a petition / protest please
> do let me know.
>
>
>
> Emails should be sent to:
>
> defrapetition@(removethisandbrackets)bradfordtrials.co.uk
>
> all email address will be erased after the petition is presented to the
> new government/DEFRA.
>
>
>
> NO EMAIL ADDRESSES WILL BE GIVEN OUT TO ANY OTHER PERSON / ORGANISATION.
>
>
>
> Letters to:
>
> DEFRA PETITION
>
> C/o Stuart Cameron
>
> 30 Lymington Drive
>
> Bradford
>
> BD4 9HA Please do mark the envelope DEFRA PETITION !!!!!
>
>
>
>
>
>

On Sunday, in article
<[email protected]>
[email protected] "tomtom" wrote:

> The DEFRA Single Payment Scheme being paid to farmers EXCLUDES all
> motorsport
> ie NOT a motor powered vehicle anywhere on farmland. And YES that can
> include their own vehicles!
> Typical replies that I should have expected.
> There are over 7000 events each year on farmland from motorcycle trials to
> 4x4 events, these will all go.
> Events are already being cancelled, dont say I did not warn you.
> I tried to keep the posting as brief as possible.

It might be worth starting some discussion of this on
uk.business.agriculture -- the regulars there are pretty well-informed,
though you might not get much sympathy if you express certainty on scant
evidence.

Certainly, they're not biased in favour of DEFRA. Anything but.



--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.

"I am Number Two," said Penfold. "You are Number Six."

On Monday, in article
<[email protected]>
[email protected] "David G. Bell" wrote:

> On Sunday, in article
> <[email protected]>
> [email protected] "tomtom" wrote:
>
> > The DEFRA Single Payment Scheme being paid to farmers EXCLUDES all
> > motorsport
> > ie NOT a motor powered vehicle anywhere on farmland. And YES that can
> > include their own vehicles!
> > Typical replies that I should have expected.
> > There are over 7000 events each year on farmland from motorcycle trials to
> > 4x4 events, these will all go.
> > Events are already being cancelled, dont say I did not warn you.
> > I tried to keep the posting as brief as possible.
>
> It might be worth starting some discussion of this on
> uk.business.agriculture -- the regulars there are pretty well-informed,
> though you might not get much sympathy if you express certainty on scant
> evidence.
>
> Certainly, they're not biased in favour of DEFRA. Anything but.

Further info, having just received another update on the rules, and
pointing out where you may have leapt to a conclusion:

1: The rules given in the SPS Handbook and Guidance for England 2005
Suppement (April 2005 Update) state that motorsport is _not_ an
agricultural activity.

2: On the facing page it is stated, in bold print: "In all cases the
restrictions only apply during the ten month period when the land is
required to be at the farmer's disposal."

3: Car _parking_ is explicitly not motorsport. The rules state that
there is a 28-day limit on car parking, and it can be associated with
any activity.

4: There is considerable wiggle room in the definitions. You may be
able to argue that some motorsport events are permissible. Equally, it
may only be the actual "track" area which is excluded. It is stated
that the list given is an "indication".


So, there will still be a two-month block of the year when farmland can
be used for off-road motorsport, such as trials driving, without
affecting SPS entitlement. This block is chosen by the farmer.

Within the other ten months, there can be car parking for up to 28 days.
If the motorsport area is fenced off as a seperate field, that car
parking is not a problem (It is explicitly stated that the "caravan
site" use need not affect a whole field, which implies other uses do,
but on the next page it's stated that any loss of entitlement only
covers the affected area.).

Certain sorts of motorsport may be permitted, if the farmer asks, and, I
assume, there is evidence that the effects are comparable with permitted
events. As there is a "Festivals and Events" category, you could argue
that you're having less effect on agricultural use than the Glastonbury
Festival, though that's probably outside the ten month block.

By analogy with the permitted uses, trials driving seems a possibility,
if not actual racing. With some care, there might not be any problem.
My recollection is that the old system would have had similar effects.
Certainly, when set-aside came in, car parking was not permitted at all.
And set-aside land is still differently restricted.

DEFRA and the RPA are _still_ trying to sort out what the system is.
This part of the system _will_ be reviewed.



--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.

"I am Number Two," said Penfold. "You are Number Six."

Please be aware I have read all of the Defra documents and RPA. docs, you
are NOT right in what you say.
The basics are correct that you state but have MUCH more detail.
I DO know what Im talking about.
Set aside land was always different
Unless a farmer/landowner does not claim for a parcel of land, which many do
not know/realise they can except parcels, there will be NO motorsport on
that land.
See LARA's website.

""David G. Bell"" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Monday, in article
> <[email protected]>
> [email protected] "David G. Bell" wrote:
>
>> On Sunday, in article
>> <[email protected]>
>> [email protected] "tomtom" wrote:
>>
>> > The DEFRA Single Payment Scheme being paid to farmers EXCLUDES all
>> > motorsport
>> > ie NOT a motor powered vehicle anywhere on farmland. And YES that can
>> > include their own vehicles!
>> > Typical replies that I should have expected.
>> > There are over 7000 events each year on farmland from motorcycle trials
>> > to
>> > 4x4 events, these will all go.
>> > Events are already being cancelled, dont say I did not warn you.
>> > I tried to keep the posting as brief as possible.
>>
>> It might be worth starting some discussion of this on
>> uk.business.agriculture -- the regulars there are pretty well-informed,
>> though you might not get much sympathy if you express certainty on scant
>> evidence.
>>
>> Certainly, they're not biased in favour of DEFRA. Anything but.
>
> Further info, having just received another update on the rules, and
> pointing out where you may have leapt to a conclusion:
>
> 1: The rules given in the SPS Handbook and Guidance for England 2005
> Suppement (April 2005 Update) state that motorsport is _not_ an
> agricultural activity.
>
> 2: On the facing page it is stated, in bold print: "In all cases the
> restrictions only apply during the ten month period when the land is
> required to be at the farmer's disposal."
>
> 3: Car _parking_ is explicitly not motorsport. The rules state that
> there is a 28-day limit on car parking, and it can be associated with
> any activity.
>
> 4: There is considerable wiggle room in the definitions. You may be
> able to argue that some motorsport events are permissible. Equally, it
> may only be the actual "track" area which is excluded. It is stated
> that the list given is an "indication".
>
>
> So, there will still be a two-month block of the year when farmland can
> be used for off-road motorsport, such as trials driving, without
> affecting SPS entitlement. This block is chosen by the farmer.
>
> Within the other ten months, there can be car parking for up to 28 days.
> If the motorsport area is fenced off as a seperate field, that car
> parking is not a problem (It is explicitly stated that the "caravan
> site" use need not affect a whole field, which implies other uses do,
> but on the next page it's stated that any loss of entitlement only
> covers the affected area.).
>
> Certain sorts of motorsport may be permitted, if the farmer asks, and, I
> assume, there is evidence that the effects are comparable with permitted
> events. As there is a "Festivals and Events" category, you could argue
> that you're having less effect on agricultural use than the Glastonbury
> Festival, though that's probably outside the ten month block.
>
> By analogy with the permitted uses, trials driving seems a possibility,
> if not actual racing. With some care, there might not be any problem.
> My recollection is that the old system would have had similar effects.
> Certainly, when set-aside came in, car parking was not permitted at all.
> And set-aside land is still differently restricted.
>
> DEFRA and the RPA are _still_ trying to sort out what the system is.
> This part of the system _will_ be reviewed.
>
>
>
> --
> David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.
>
> "I am Number Two," said Penfold. "You are Number Six."

"tomtom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Please be aware I have read all of the Defra documents and RPA. docs, you
> are NOT right in what you say.
> The basics are correct that you state but have MUCH more detail.
> I DO know what Im talking about.
> Set aside land was always different
> Unless a farmer/landowner does not claim for a parcel of land, which many
do
> not know/realise they can except parcels, there will be NO motorsport on
> that land.
> See LARA's website.
>

from the frequently answered questions booklet just out

Page 6
C Non agricultural use of land.
16
Could you clarify non agricultural use of land and the 10 month rule. For
example if someone was to use a field for a non agricultural activity for
two days a year is that likely to rule that the land is ineligible for
payment.

Answer
Eligible acres are defined in the EU regulations as excluding land on which
non agricultural activities take place. Defra have issued further guidance
on how this requirement will be implemented in the Single Payment scheme
handbook and guidance for England 2005 supplement. But, in any event it
remains open for farmers to host events outside their nominated 10 month
period providing they continue to comply with cross compliance conditions.


But I'll ask about
Jim Webster