Defender 90 prop shaft question

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C

Cassillis

Guest
Hi all, My defender 90 1996 300tdi tin-top with 104,000mls, has developed a
distinct vibration through the whole cab at 40mph along with a squeal whilst
pulling away. The sound is rotational, if you understand what I mean, and
seems to be central. My man in the know seems to think it's the UJ at the
gearbox end of the front prop shaft that is worn and causing this. Do you
agree? Can I buy a UJ or should I replace the whole front prop shaft? Any
help or comments would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance

Graeme


 

"Cassillis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi all, My defender 90 1996 300tdi tin-top with 104,000mls, has developed
a
> distinct vibration through the whole cab at 40mph along with a squeal
whilst
> pulling away. The sound is rotational, if you understand what I mean, and
> seems to be central. My man in the know seems to think it's the UJ at the
> gearbox end of the front prop shaft that is worn and causing this. Do you
> agree? Can I buy a UJ or should I replace the whole front prop shaft? Any
> help or comments would be appreciated.
> Thanks in advance
>
> Graeme
>
Hi Graeme

You can buy the UJs, you can also buy a whole new propshaft too. If it is
the front prop shaft then you could just unbolt it and try a short test
drive to see if that solves the problem - [I may be wrong about the next bit
as I ain't got a Defender] if you are driving on tarmac wouldn't the
Defender be operating on the rear axle only??

Graeme


 
On or around Thu, 9 Feb 2006 21:08:29 -0000, "Graeme" <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>
>"Cassillis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Hi all, My defender 90 1996 300tdi tin-top with 104,000mls, has developed
>a
>> distinct vibration through the whole cab at 40mph along with a squeal
>whilst
>> pulling away. The sound is rotational, if you understand what I mean, and
>> seems to be central. My man in the know seems to think it's the UJ at the
>> gearbox end of the front prop shaft that is worn and causing this. Do you
>> agree? Can I buy a UJ or should I replace the whole front prop shaft? Any
>> help or comments would be appreciated.
>> Thanks in advance
>>
>> Graeme
>>
>Hi Graeme
>
>You can buy the UJs, you can also buy a whole new propshaft too. If it is
>the front prop shaft then you could just unbolt it and try a short test
>drive to see if that solves the problem - [I may be wrong about the next bit
>as I ain't got a Defender] if you are driving on tarmac wouldn't the
>Defender be operating on the rear axle only??

You'll need to lock the centre diff.

Joints are cheap as chips. changing them is a bit of a pain without a
decent-sized vice to press the bearings with. or a press, of course...

I can do a joint-swap in under an hour from putting the vehicle on the yard
to driving it off again. If I had a lift, I'd save about 10 minutes for not
jacking and crawling on the floor. But I have had a bit of practice...

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Brevis esse laboro, Obscurus fio" (it is when I struggle to be
brief that I become obscure) Horace (65 - 8 BC) Ars Poetica, 25
 
> > Hi all, My defender 90 1996 300tdi tin-top with 104,000mls, has
developed
> a
> > distinct vibration through the whole cab at 40mph along with a squeal
> whilst
> > pulling away. The sound is rotational, if you understand what I mean,
and
> > seems to be central. My man in the know seems to think it's the UJ at
the
> > gearbox end of the front prop shaft that is worn and causing this. Do
you
> > agree? Can I buy a UJ or should I replace the whole front prop shaft?
Any
> > help or comments would be appreciated.
> >

> You can buy the UJs, you can also buy a whole new propshaft too. If it is
> the front prop shaft then you could just unbolt it and try a short test
> drive to see if that solves the problem - [I may be wrong about the next
bit
> as I ain't got a Defender] if you are driving on tarmac wouldn't the
> Defender be operating on the rear axle only??
>
You can test drive if you engage the diff lock with a propshaft removed. If
the vibration stops with one of the props removed then that one is the
culprit. It will probably be showing rust around the joint.

HTH Martin


 
Cassillis wrote:

> Hi all, My defender 90 1996 300tdi tin-top with 104,000mls, has developed a
> distinct vibration through the whole cab at 40mph along with a squeal whilst
> pulling away. The sound is rotational, if you understand what I mean, and
> seems to be central. My man in the know seems to think it's the UJ at the
> gearbox end of the front prop shaft that is worn and causing this. Do you
> agree? Can I buy a UJ or should I replace the whole front prop shaft? Any
> help or comments would be appreciated.
> Thanks in advance
>
> Graeme

Squeal doesn't sound like a propshaft UJ.

It's not a dirty, partially applied or maladjusted park brake is it? Try
very gently partially applying the brake whilst moving to see if
anything changes.
 
Austin Shackles <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Joints are cheap as chips. changing them is a bit of a pain without a
> decent-sized vice to press the bearings with. or a press, of course...

A bit of a digression, but can a Hi-Lift jack be used for this?

Just something that occurred to me...after I'd got someone to do it for me,
of course! (I've no press or vice but I do have a jack!).

Derry
 
Derry Argue wrote:
> Austin Shackles <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> Joints are cheap as chips. changing them is a bit of a pain without a
>> decent-sized vice to press the bearings with. or a press, of course...
>
> A bit of a digression, but can a Hi-Lift jack be used for this?

Not sure how. You need to squeeze. It shouldn't take multi-tons to push
the bits in and out - even manky ones on a 101 IME. You might even get
away with a G clamp.

Steve
 
Derry Argue wrote:
> Austin Shackles <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> Joints are cheap as chips. changing them is a bit of a pain without
>> a decent-sized vice to press the bearings with. or a press, of
>> course...
>
> A bit of a digression, but can a Hi-Lift jack be used for this?
>
> Just something that occurred to me...after I'd got someone to do it
> for me, of course! (I've no press or vice but I do have a jack!).
>
> Derry

Little pneumatic hammers work wonders on many bearings too, with the right
tool in the hammer - I often find a bearing that a vice won't move flies
across the workshop in seconds when the air gun is used.

K


--
"I'd far rather be happy than right any day."
- Slartibartfast


 

> > Hi all, My defender 90 1996 300tdi tin-top with 104,000mls, has
developed a
> > distinct vibration through the whole cab at 40mph along with a squeal
whilst
> > pulling away. The sound is rotational, if you understand what I mean,
and
> > seems to be central. My man in the know seems to think it's the UJ at
the
> > gearbox end of the front prop shaft that is worn and causing this. Do
you
> > agree? Can I buy a UJ or should I replace the whole front prop shaft?
Any
> > help or comments would be appreciated.
> > Thanks in advance
> >
> > Graeme
>
> Squeal doesn't sound like a propshaft UJ.
>
> It's not a dirty, partially applied or maladjusted park brake is it? Try
> very gently partially applying the brake whilst moving to see if
> anything changes.

Squeak, squeak, squeak on take off and vibes at 40 mph, classic knackered
u/j symptoms, all you need is a pair of circlip pliers, a good vice to hold
prop, a small socket and a copper faced hammer. Make sure you mark which
way round it came off, it's a balanced assembly.

Martin


 
Steve Taylor wrote:

> Not sure how. You need to squeeze. It shouldn't take multi-tons to push
> the bits in and out - even manky ones on a 101 IME. You might even get
> away with a G clamp.

IME a G clamp isn't up to the job.


--
EMB
 
In message <[email protected]>
"Cassillis" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hi all, My defender 90 1996 300tdi tin-top with 104,000mls, has developed a
> distinct vibration through the whole cab at 40mph along with a squeal whilst
> pulling away. The sound is rotational, if you understand what I mean, and
> seems to be central. My man in the know seems to think it's the UJ at the
> gearbox end of the front prop shaft that is worn and causing this. Do you
> agree? Can I buy a UJ or should I replace the whole front prop shaft? Any
> help or comments would be appreciated.
> Thanks in advance
>
> Graeme
>
>

I'm 90% certain from your description that it will be as you man in the
know says. To make sure, chock the rear wheels, handbrake off*, jack up
one front wheel and, making sure you don't squash yourself, rattle the
propshaft - you will be able to see/feel the UJ if it's knackered.

*if you check it with the wheels on the ground and/or the handbrake
on the propshaft will be under load and all may well apear to be ok
when it's not.

From the sound of it, the UJ will be well knackered. If it is suspect
take the prop off and check the condition of the yoke, if that has
got damaged then a new prop is required.

300Tdi, or more accurately R380, Defenders are particulary prone to
the rear front propshat UJ failing, and it needs fixing sooner rather
than later as it is not uncommon for the yoke to fall to bits and
the propshaft come adrift.

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay
 
On or around Fri, 10 Feb 2006 14:29:42 +1300, EMB <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>Steve Taylor wrote:
>
>> Not sure how. You need to squeeze. It shouldn't take multi-tons to push
>> the bits in and out - even manky ones on a 101 IME. You might even get
>> away with a G clamp.
>
>IME a G clamp isn't up to the job.

it'd have to be a big G clamp.

typically, I find a 5" or 6" engineer's vice is the best bet.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Appearances: You don't really need make-up. Celebrate your authentic
face by frightening people in the street.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.
 
On or around Fri, 10 Feb 2006 00:41:35 +0000 (UTC), "Oily"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>
>> > Hi all, My defender 90 1996 300tdi tin-top with 104,000mls, has
>developed a
>> > distinct vibration through the whole cab at 40mph along with a squeal
>whilst
>> > pulling away. The sound is rotational, if you understand what I mean,
>and
>> > seems to be central. My man in the know seems to think it's the UJ at
>the
>> > gearbox end of the front prop shaft that is worn and causing this. Do
>you
>> > agree? Can I buy a UJ or should I replace the whole front prop shaft?
>Any
>> > help or comments would be appreciated.
>> > Thanks in advance
>> >
>> > Graeme
>>
>> Squeal doesn't sound like a propshaft UJ.
>>
>> It's not a dirty, partially applied or maladjusted park brake is it? Try
>> very gently partially applying the brake whilst moving to see if
>> anything changes.
>
>Squeak, squeak, squeak on take off and vibes at 40 mph, classic knackered
>u/j symptoms, all you need is a pair of circlip pliers, a good vice to hold
>prop, a small socket and a copper faced hammer. Make sure you mark which
>way round it came off, it's a balanced assembly.

ah, now there's a thing. You need to re-assemble the shaft the same way
round if you take the sliding joint apart, yes. Some of them have marks, if
not, you need to make marks.

But the propshaft is balance off the vehicle. It's balanced in itself.
fitting it 180 degrees out on the flanges shouldn't[1] make any difference.
they don't assemble the vehicle and then balance the shafts etc. Some
shafts have non-uniform stud patterns that only fit one way round, but not
LR ones IME which can go one of 2 ways.

[1] I use the word advisedly...
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Satisfying: Satisfy your inner child by eating ten tubes of Smarties
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.
 

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> ah, now there's a thing. You need to re-assemble the shaft the same way
> round if you take the sliding joint apart, yes. Some of them have marks,
if
> not, you need to make marks.
>
> But the propshaft is balanced off the vehicle.

That's not what I had in mind. Apart from lining up the splines you can
rotate the yoke to the sliding member on either end when you dismantle the
U/Js and this you must not do, as I said previously it's a balanced
assembly, including the the end castings.

It's an easy and inexpensive job but if you've not done one before there
are dangerous pitfalls and it would be better left to your 'man in the know'
and as Richard says if there's any damage to the yokes you will need another
prop.

HTH Martin


 
aldi were selling a decent size engineers vice tother day for about 14 quid.
should do the job ok. no idea what the quality was like, but id be surprised if it was a really shyte one.
hope this helps someone/anyone.
 

"Oily" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> > > Hi all, My defender 90 1996 300tdi tin-top with 104,000mls, has
> developed a
> > > distinct vibration through the whole cab at 40mph along with a squeal
> whilst
> > > pulling away. The sound is rotational, if you understand what I mean,
> and
> > > seems to be central. My man in the know seems to think it's the UJ at
> the
> > > gearbox end of the front prop shaft that is worn and causing this. Do
> you
> > > agree? Can I buy a UJ or should I replace the whole front prop shaft?
> Any
> > > help or comments would be appreciated.
> > > Thanks in advance
> > >
> > > Graeme
> >
> > Squeal doesn't sound like a propshaft UJ.
> >
> > It's not a dirty, partially applied or maladjusted park brake is it? Try
> > very gently partially applying the brake whilst moving to see if
> > anything changes.
>
> Squeak, squeak, squeak on take off and vibes at 40 mph, classic knackered
> u/j symptoms, all you need is a pair of circlip pliers, a good vice to
hold
> prop, a small socket and a copper faced hammer. Make sure you mark which
> way round it came off, it's a balanced assembly.
>
> Martin

Martin and all the others who commented, thank you.


 

"Cassillis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi all, My defender 90 1996 300tdi tin-top with 104,000mls, has developed
a
> distinct vibration through the whole cab at 40mph along with a squeal
whilst
> pulling away. The sound is rotational, if you understand what I mean, and
> seems to be central. My man in the know seems to think it's the UJ at the
> gearbox end of the front prop shaft that is worn and causing this. Do you
> agree? Can I buy a UJ or should I replace the whole front prop shaft? Any
> help or comments would be appreciated.
> Thanks in advance
>


Thanks all for the very helpful replies in relation to this problem



Graeme


 

"Cassillis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi all, My defender 90 1996 300tdi tin-top with 104,000mls, has developed
a
> distinct vibration through the whole cab at 40mph along with a squeal
whilst
> pulling away. The sound is rotational, if you understand what I mean, and
> seems to be central. My man in the know seems to think it's the UJ at the
> gearbox end of the front prop shaft that is worn and causing this. Do you
> agree?

Thanks to the group who gave excellent advice regarding this question. The
UJ was to blame for the symptoms. My man in the know, bless him, showed me
the old compared to the new, well and truly fekked! Only one of the four
shafts had any needle rollers intact the others were in bits or dust. No
wonder it was complaining!

Thanks again to all for the advice.



Graeme


 
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 09:02:07 +0000 (UTC), "Cassillis"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Cassillis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Hi all, My defender 90 1996 300tdi tin-top with 104,000mls, has developed
>a
>> distinct vibration through the whole cab at 40mph along with a squeal
>whilst
>> pulling away. The sound is rotational, if you understand what I mean, and
>> seems to be central. My man in the know seems to think it's the UJ at the
>> gearbox end of the front prop shaft that is worn and causing this. Do you
>> agree?
>
>Thanks to the group who gave excellent advice regarding this question. The
>UJ was to blame for the symptoms. My man in the know, bless him, showed me
>the old compared to the new, well and truly fekked! Only one of the four
>shafts had any needle rollers intact the others were in bits or dust. No
>wonder it was complaining!
>
>Thanks again to all for the advice.
>
>
>
>Graeme
>
I only wonder how it could have got this bad in the first place before
you decided to rectify it!?
 
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