Defender 90 Brakes are awful; few questions :)

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stevelucas18

stevelucas18

New Member
Posts
9
Hi Guys
Im just getting started on my V8 Auto defender build, so im sure I will have more questions to come but my next challenge is sorting out the brakes. I remember them being awful, spongy, needing to pump the pedal etc. I understand the brakes are fairly cr*p as standard so is there anything I can do to give them a bit more force.
I have a feeling the brake servo could be one of my problems so I am replacing that anyway, so my first question is which one do I go for. Ive read through a few post that say use a 110servo although looking on Paddock Spares I can see a few different ones. Is there a specific one that is compatible with my setup.
Next question is would I need a different master cylinder?
Is it worth putting 110 front callipers on? if so what year would fit?
What are the best Brake Pads to go for? Green stuff?

So the Defender is 1990 and was 2.5na many moons ago and was then converted to 300tdi before I bought it. I have just rebuilt a 3.9 V8 auto to put in it (if that is relevant to the brakes). It has rear disco axle with discs.
I did a few thing to try and get to the bottom of the sh*t brakes;
New front callipers (standard)
New rear Callipers when I replaced the axle
New Master Cylinder (standard)
All of which I will be cleaning up and checking as they have been exposed to the elements for the past 2 years when I took the car of the road.

Sorry for the essay its sort have been an introduction to my project. Im taking lots of pictures and will be posting a few describing the build to help out others once ive finished and know it all works.

Thanks in advance for your help
 
Can't help on parts but if you needed to pump then bleeding or lack of was probably the issue not the servo. You should get good braking without a servo (you just need to press harder, not further)
 
Thanks for the quick reply

That could be part of the problem although I re bleed them on a few occasions with no difference. The brakes would lock up the wheels but with a great deal of effort (maybe 2 feet). Really looking to improve that and maybe have a better setup than what I have now?
 
Standard brakes on the defender are absolutely fine. If you need to pump them to get a good pedal you almost certainly have air in the system somewhere. If the calipers/pads/discs are in good nick the poor braking problem likely lies in the master cylinder/servo. Don't forget that depending on model there will probably be some sort of pressure compensator in the line to the rear brakes they can and do fail reducing the rear brake efficiency to the point of stopping the rear brakes working completely. (ask me how I know that one)
 
stevelucas18 said:
Hi Guys
Im just getting started on my V8 Auto defender build, so im sure I will have more questions to come but my next challenge is sorting out the brakes. I remember them being awful, spongy, needing to pump the pedal etc. I understand the brakes are fairly cr*p as standard so is there anything I can do to give them a bit more force.
I have a feeling the brake servo could be one of my problems so I am replacing that anyway, so my first question is which one do I go for. Ive read through a few post that say use a 110servo although looking on Paddock Spares I can see a few different ones. Is there a specific one that is compatible with my setup.
Next question is would I need a different master cylinder?
Is it worth putting 110 front callipers on? if so what year would fit?
What are the best Brake Pads to go for? Green stuff?

So the Defender is 1990 and was 2.5na many moons ago and was then converted to 300tdi before I bought it. I have just rebuilt a 3.9 V8 auto to put in it (if that is relevant to the brakes). It has rear disco axle with discs.
I did a few thing to try and get to the bottom of the sh*t brakes;
New front callipers (standard)
New rear Callipers when I replaced the axle
New Master Cylinder (standard)
All of which I will be cleaning up and checking as they have been exposed to the elements for the past 2 years when I took the car of the road.

Sorry for the essay its sort have been an introduction to my project. Im taking lots of pictures and will be posting a few describing the build to help out others once ive finished and know it all works.

Thanks in advance for your help
Click to expand...
Nothing wrong with Defender brakes as standard
There is a problem if they aren't working properly.
Not sure why you are replacing masses of stuff, it may be perfectly good. Diagnose and repair fault would be better.
Doubt if there is anything wrong with your servo, try testing it. Pump pedal to destroy residual vacuum, foot hard down, start engine. If the pedal goes down a bit more, servo is working.
 
Turboman said:
Nothing wrong with Defender brakes as standard
There is a problem if they aren't working properly.
Not sure why you are replacing masses of stuff, it may be perfectly good
Click to expand...

One of my front callipers was leaking so I decided to change both sides and when I acquired a rear axle the brakes were rusted solid so I replaced them aswell.
 
I personally wouldn't upgrade the servo. A servo does not make the brakes better just means more pressure is applied at the brakes relative to pedal pressure. Defender brakes that are well set up are more than capable of locking the wheels on road biased tyres. Go through the braking system and use quality pads and shoes if the rear brakes are drums and then give them a good bleed. Land rovers can be a pig to bleed an eezi-bleed makes the job a lot easier.
I have also encountered with my series 2 that cheap brake parts especially the linings on pads and shoes can give a spongy feel and produce less friction than the higher quality brake parts. As the brakes on a Land Rover are one of its only safety features I wouldn't go for cheap parts.
 
stevelucas18 said:
One of my front callipers was leaking so I decided to change both sides and when I acquired a rear axle the brakes were rusted solid so I replaced them aswell.
Click to expand...
Fair enough, mate! :)
Might not be a bad idea, what he says.^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
BTW, how many miles have you done on the new brakes?Take it you have changed flexis as well?
 
The problem on mine was that the brakes were fine until I needed to stop sharply, then they became solid and I had to put a lot of pressure on them to stop. Even then though I could lock the wheels up if I put a lot of pressure on them.

Replacing the servo fixed that.
 
Stock brakes are pretty good. Should be able to lock all 4 wheels instantly on dry tarmac at 50+mph. They will fade with heavy country lane use. But work just fine.

If you have drums on the back, then the shoes could be worn, requiring you to pump the pedal. Swapping on a disc axle from a Disco is a good fix.

But else, make sure fluid is good, no air. And you have vacuum. Knackered pads and discs won't help, so refresh if needed. And pistons can cease if the vehicle has sat idle a long time.
 
I seem to remember that elderly vacuum hoses can create a loss of braking force, as they collapse, rather than transferring the vacuum to the servo - a bugger to identify too. Replacing the hose should be cheap.
 
An awful lot of air can hide in a Land Rover braking system. Even if you can't see bubbles coming out any longer doesn't mean that it's all out. Let it settle for a while, or even overnight, and then go round and bleed some more, especially from the rear passenger side.
 
" I understand the brakes are fairly cr*p as standard"

Don't get drawn into the old myths:- LR's leak and the interior is always wet, LR's leak oil, LR heaters don't work, LR brakes are rubbish, LR's don't steer in a straight line etc etc etc. They are fine if they are maintained correctly, anything less means the owner doesn't care and it is easier to say "they all do that" than just get out there and fix it!

As already stated by many before me, the brakes are good when working correctly and more than up to the job of stopping the vehicle in a controlled way as long as all components are in good condition. Obviously the M/C & servo need to be good but you also need decent discs & pads (i.e. not grooved and with a ring of rust around the edges), calipers where the pistons move freely, non bulging hoses and of course good (non-contaminated) fluid.
Vented discs are good if you do a lot of towing but if you are replacing the discs & calipers because of wear then consider changing to vented anyway as they just bolt on and cost very little more. SS braided hoses are a good investment and for friction, I have been seriously happy with Mintex pads for several years now and use them on both my 90 and my wife's Freelander.
 
Thanks for all your tips guys, I will take your advise and take some time to identify the problem. ive ordered some new solid disks and greenstuff pads along with various other stuff for the build. Will be making sure all the callipers are still in working order and as im re-running all the copper pipework so there will be no problem there. I have a strong feeling the servo isn't working its best as the force needed on the pedal was a lot (that's not just me being wimpy lol) and sometimes it would stop fine and then a few seconds later it would be rock hard. If I do find a need to change it I will just go for the original.
It seems I have been badly informed by people telling me the brakes are notoriously rubbish. My apologies.
On many fronts this project is a great learning curve for me and im keen to get everything running like it should.
Cheers
 
Litch said:
" I understand the brakes are fairly cr*p as standard"

Don't get drawn into the old myths:- LR's leak and the interior is always wet, LR's leak oil, LR heaters don't work, LR brakes are rubbish, LR's don't steer in a straight line etc etc etc. They are fine if they are maintained correctly, anything less means the owner doesn't care and it is easier to say "they all do that" than just get out there and fix it!
Click to expand...
I agree! And it is quite possible for a Landrover of any age to be completely reliable, if well maintained and driven. They are strong things, and most problems come from poor maintenance, abuse, or lack of regular use!

stevelucas18 said:
Thanks for all your tips guys, I will take your advise and take some time to identify the problem. ive ordered some new solid disks and greenstuff pads along with various other stuff for the build. Will be making sure all the callipers are still in working order and as im re-running all the copper pipework so there will be no problem there. I have a strong feeling the servo isn't working its best as the force needed on the pedal was a lot (that's not just me being wimpy lol) and sometimes it would stop fine and then a few seconds later it would be rock hard. If I do find a need to change it I will just go for the original.
It seems I have been badly informed by people telling me the brakes are notoriously rubbish. My apologies.
On many fronts this project is a great learning curve for me and im keen to get everything running like it should.
Cheers
Click to expand...
Best of luck, you will get there in the end, and will be pleased when you get them working right!
Did you test the servo, like I said^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^? And it would be a good idea to replace the vacuum pipe, as someone said, they are only a few quid!
Flexi pipes are a good idea too, they often get overlooked,
 
The whole car is in bits at the moment so I will have to check the servo once its all together again and will be refitting new ss braided hoses
 
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