Brakes Aren't Strong Enough

Hi All,

I have a couple questions I keep meaning to ask.

I have a 110 TD5 DC which last weekend I gave a complete brake overhaul. It's had all 4 new callipers (OEM AP), all 4 new discs (OEM Delphi Lockheed) and 4 sets of new pads (again, OEM Delphi Lockheed).

I did this due to the originals being in an interesting condition and the fact the rear were seized to hell and fronts, though working, didn't look in great nick either. Bad rusting. I also couldn't get them to lock! I know locking isn't good in an emergency situation, but I still believe that even a 110 DC should be able to lock-up all 4 wheels.

Having done all this work, they still will not lock. I can boot the brakes to only get a reasonably hard, but only reasonably hard braking force. I can push until the M/C wont give any more, but still no locking up. Is this right? My 90 can lock up very easily if I wanted and the brakes just feel so much better even though the Callipers are original!

I also bleed thoroughly and put a couple litre of fresh fluid through to clear the lines through.

Anyone got any advice on this?

Tyres are 265/75 BFG AT's, should that be relevant!?

**Update: Drove a friends, new to him, Disco 2 TD5 back to his house on Saturday just gone and the brake were original but on a whole other planet! Bloody hell could that thing brake! I'm even more sure there's something wrong with mine.

Next up is the steering box. I am converting to a disco drop arm and have the daunting task of removing the drop arm. I also have a spare steering box in the shed which although used, was a reasonably fresh refurb and still look pretty smart. When I turn the shaft splines with my fingers (very tough), the drop arm splines turn, but feel very notchy, is this correct of an empty box? I dont think there's to much wrong with mine, but I dont know, so I'm wondering if there's a way to test my spare box so I can set that up with the disco arm and just swap the boxes and again, gives me a reason to refresh the fluid to!

What should the box feel like when off and disconnected?

Kind regards to all!

Few hoses might be ballooning under pressure,

About all that I can think of,

Other than that, I think TD5's have ABS ?

It's no help to you, but my TD5 90 brakes are also in excellent condition but are also crap. I can't lock the wheels either and I have to make allowances on the road for the extra braking distances compared to most other vehicles. I just thought it was another quirky Defender characteristic!
No ABS fitted on mine.

80-20 split so rears aren't used much unless you're towing heavy

No ABS on this one!

As to balooning, this is possible, but the few small bits of hose which are rubber, they are in good nick and looked fine when bleeding! I may try a new set, but not sure it's that!

The brake set-up is quite a potent set-up if you calculate it all and should in theory be able to lock an empty 110, I'm almost positive they should!

I took the 300TDi 90 yesterday to give it a run and my god, the brakes on that thing are also immense in comparison! I can lock that thing up no sweat, with 265/75 Muds on! It has in fact locked up a few times when it used to be my daily without me wanting it to, so again, they should be able to do it on the 110!

I guess the only answer is to start swapping bits for new stuff and try and get them back again!

Was just hoping there may of been an easy answer or test method to work out the problem!

is the servo in good condition?

you cant theorise that......its not just about the callipers it also depends on your servo and master pressure application output

as I said 80-20 split


its not exactly hard to find a problem.......if no air is getting into the system its either losing pressure in the rubber, the servo isn't getting enough vac or its on the way out or the master isn't applying enough pressure

the braking system is very simplistic

Visibly it looks great! Looks like new with a quick dust! No leaks and pedal movement feels smooth. When resting on the pedal, I start the engine and can feel a certain amount of movement which would signal there's some servo assistence there.

What's the best way to test this?

Getting a gauge on the vacuum pipe?

Not done much work on Servo assisted units very often!

pump out all the assistance with the engine off 3-4 pumps, then while pressing down hard start the engine and make sure the pedal drops

my servo help was bad due to the egr vac pipe being worn through and the seal on the servo worn

You may have done so but remember new brakes can take some time to bed in.

Got 110 callipers front with drums on rear and I can lock the fronts up on dry tarmac in my 90

Having replaced pistons, seals, pads and discs on mine last year I noticed that it takes a while for the new brakes to reach their maximum power. I replaced my servo at the same time. Whilst I haven't formally checked the amount of 'suck', if you pull the air pipe off (don't worry, it's just a push fit) you get a very satisfying sound of air rushing in on the new one, which suggests it's not leaking air. Another possibility is the balance valve (if one is fitted), usually on the drivers side footwell near the bottom. Maybe that's not letting the pressure through.