Biodiesel Woe

Hi everyone, I'm new to the forum and to Land Rover ownership, I've also never owned a diesel engined car before. I thought I would share my Biodiesel saga with you all in case it helps anyone out.....could be a bit of a long one, but I'll try to cut a long story short. I filled up my 97 Disco at a local filling station selling B50 biodiesel, all well and good... 90 litres later at 99p per litre, cool I thought. Well all was OK until the temperature hit -7c one morning when I set off for work at 6am. 2 miles later the disco was limping into a layby belching blue smoke, called the AA cos I was convinced that the turbo had gone and oil was being burned, AA man said it was overfuelling and I got flat bedded to the garage. They didn't have time to look at it so I drove it out of the garage and home, not a trace of smoke at all, checked the oil...it was full, no movement of the level. Looking back I realised that the temperature had risen, but didn't know at the time. Next morning, same thing happened, this time as I was choking on blue smoke I realised that it smelt of chips and the penny dropped! I limped home, waited for the temperature to rise and did some research and found that in the USA the biofuel users only use B5 (5%) biodiesel / 95% petro diesel when the temp hits subzero! No wonder, anyway I now had 88 litres of chip fat in the tank and more cold weather on the way. Managed to put a few litres on regular diesel in and managed to run the tank down, vowed not to put any bio in until June! So this morning imagine my surprise when the disco started messing about again after 4 weeks of regular diesel going through it. Loads of blue smoke, no power, had to pull over. I noticed that the engine block was "steaming" and jumped to the conclusion that the head gasket had gone. Called my old friends from the AA again, and was relieved to find out that the "steam" was in fact smoke and that the wetness was diesel! Turns out that the Biodiesel came back to haunt me by eating away at some small rubber fuel hoses running along the top of the cylinder head, so it was pouring down the side and not getting into the cyclinders! The kind AA man changed the fuel filter for me (had a spare in the back but had been too scared to fit as the haynes manual makes a right song and dance out of the procedure) now I know how, it's easy! Anyway, now have more power than ever (revs now go above 2000 in 1st to 3rd) and no more chip pan smoke! And no more biodiesel for me, not even in June!

Had similar problems myself with biodiesel in my 90 when we had a recent cold snap and found lumps of gelled biodiesel blocking the fuel filter,no more biofuel for me until i can find a cheap way of heating the fuel.

I have been running on 80% Pure Veg Oil (ASDA OWN 79p/ltr) 20% Diesel for a week now, love the smell of chips, lol. (1996 300Tdi Disco)

I work shifts 7pm till 3am and the last few mornings at 3am the old girl has started a treat even at -1deg. (ERG removed aswell)

I have heard that I must change my Fuel filter after approx 500miles because all the crap the veg oil cleans out of the tank and fuel lines will block my filter, is this true??

Also how easy is it to change the filter?
Looks to me as if you just unscrew it and put the other one on, am I correct at this, or do I have to do something else like purge the system?

Sorry to break into your thread, but I thought that this may be relevant as well.

Cheers Simon ;-)

Hi Simon, the old one just unscrewed , the new filter was filled up with fresh diesel, smeared a bit round the seal and screwed back in place (wear gloves!) The new filter was a champion one from Halfords (£4.99) rather than Halfords own brand (£11.99). The haynes manual goes into greater detail, but I think the trick is to fill the new filter up with diesel before putting it on. There are a couple of threads on this forum that go down the same route. The engine started first time after that!

oh dear im even more confused as to running on bio diesel now, am new to landrovers and own a 300tdi M plate, obviously with increased diesel prices I am looking to turn to bio diesel and have found a supplier not too far away, only problem is, i rely heavily on my landy and cant risk it failing...does anyone know for sure what exactly is required to make the landy run efficiently on bio? i have been told that a fuel filter change is required, but brooklyn's also seem to think that a secondary tank may be needed to warm the vehicle on diesel first then switch to bio, however, when i explained its not raw veg oil i'd be using, they seemed unsure as to whether a secondary tank would be needed...........please help me someone or i may have to trade my landy in for a smaller vehicle as i cant afford to keep paying the current prices on diesel :'( i can be emailed at [email protected] . thanks

Landylass21 said:

oh dear im even more confused as to running on bio diesel now, am new to landrovers and own a 300tdi M plate, obviously with increased diesel prices I am looking to turn to bio diesel and have found a supplier not too far away, only problem is, i rely heavily on my landy and cant risk it failing...does anyone know for sure what exactly is required to make the landy run efficiently on bio? i have been told that a fuel filter change is required, but brooklyn's also seem to think that a secondary tank may be needed to warm the vehicle on diesel first then switch to bio, however, when i explained its not raw veg oil i'd be using, they seemed unsure as to whether a secondary tank would be needed...........please help me someone or i may have to trade my landy in for a smaller vehicle as i cant afford to keep paying the current prices on diesel :'( i can be emailed at [email protected] . thanks

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You don't need a second tank and pre-heater for biodiesel - just for SVO.

Sounds to me as though the 50% biodiesel quoted above was a bit dodgy and behaving more like SVO - I've had no problems with my TD5, although that said I've never started it cold on more than 25%, because I fill up with 50% bio before a long run and refill with diesel at the end of the day. I get mine from PureFuels in N London, which happens to be on the way to Northumberland, so that's when I fill up! One of the big bus companies had similar problems recently and it seems to have been down to a dodgy batch of fuel.

Bio can rot rubber pipes apparently. Some older diesels have rubber fuel hoses, but I'm surprised at problems with one so new.

If your tank is full of gunge the bio will clean it and the filter may clog up. I've had no problem with mine over 3000 miles, but am changing it tomorrow and will have a look inside!

The price of biodiesel is set to shoot up I fear, so it may not be cheaper soon.

Sorry to cause confusion, LandyLass21. I think the fuel may have been dodgy as Pastmaster has said. It came from a small country filling station, and it was diluted with half a tank of petrodiesel so I was surprised by it's behavour too, having said that it only caused me problems when the air temperature was below 0 c, other than that it was fine. I've have no problems now the fuel filter and those small rubber hoses were fixed, but I am running on petrodiesel now. I worked out that I was saving about £8 on a tankfull. The fuel filter wasn't clogged with gunk, but biofuel that had remained and gelled again because the ambient temperature had dropped below zero. I was glad I had a spare filter onboard!

stormchaser said:

it only caused me problems when the air temperature was below 0 c, other than that it was fine. I've have no problems now the fuel filter and those small rubber hoses were fixed, but I am running on petrodiesel now. I worked out that I was saving about £8 on a tankfull.

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Ordinary basic diesel will "wax" and clog your engine at low temperatures. Years ago truckers used to light fires under their tanks to avoid this. The diesel in British pumps contains additives to avoid waxing - looks like yours didn't. Bodiesel does have a higher flashpoint, so it's not so easy to start when cold, but it should run OK if properly made to the correct standards. There are apparently quite a lot of dodgy producers out there, not paying the tax, so making extra profit and not necessarily getting the chemistry right.

I agree that if you're not 100% happy then don't use it - the price difference isn't that great, and will get smaller. From 1st April all diesel must contain a percentage of bio by law, and the stuff is going to get scarce. Anyone NOT adding the right mix of bio will be fined 15p per litre, but the rumour among tax accountants is that it may be cheaper to pay the extra 15p rather than buy in the bio, as it will get so expensive.

hi stormchser you got your self in abit of a muddle with bio ive been useing it since last may had no problems ,have to change filter regular, and what is petrodiesel?

Recently run on 20ltrs of petrol, 20ltrs of diesel,and 20ltrs of chip fat with a half bottle of stp for good measure . it steamed along and i got better everything out of her amazing, ive heard it does wonders to put a few quids worth of unleaded in every now and then.
300 Tdi

I see PureFuels has put the price up to 99.9p for 100% recycled bio. Knowing this guy quite well by now, I suspect that anyone who charges less is cutting a few corners. The cost of the chemicals for the recycling process has shot up. Btw his website is quite good on the benefits/characteristics of bio: Pure Fuels Ltd - London's Biodiesel Company.

cossiedreamer said:

Recently run on 20ltrs of petrol, 20ltrs of diesel,and 20ltrs of chip fat with a half bottle of stp for good measure . it steamed along and i got better everything out of her amazing, ive heard it does wonders to put a few quids worth of unleaded in every now and then.
300 Tdi

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Adding petrol was the standard way of preventing waxing. CharlesY says don't put petrol in a TD5 though - there's a post somewhere...

Sorry - I seem to be hogging this thread. There's a page on winter additives for biodiesel at Biodiesel in Winter - Biodiesel in cold weather - Winterizing Biodiesel

howdy welditup, "Petrodiesel" = just regular diesel (made from crude oil as opposed to grown in a field!) it gets really confusing when trying to write about biodiesel and diesel. I've seen a post that called it "Dinodiesel" too.....so that's what happened to the Dinosaurs!.....Looks like some of the "biodiesel" that I used was mostly Lard and that's why I had troubles....

Hi, we run our 200tdi on veg oil from super market. 50% veg and 50% diesel in winter.In summer 70% veg oil.If you run lower than this i found it brakes down seals in diesel pump,the sulpher in diesel lubricates them.Our truck has covered 162,000 miles on veg and diesel from new.Proberly saved half price of truck in fuel.I change diesel filter every 3000 miles but if you use old veg oil you need to change more often because of water caused in cooking process.

Hi v8 shaun, I'm tempted now by the veg oil, I have heard lots of conflicting advice about running using elaborate pre-heating systems or just pouring the stuff straight in. It would certainly sort out my fuel bill.......is there any reason it won't work in a 300 tdi ? The cash n carry does 20 litre cans of SVO, just have to work out you get membership! At least with cooking oil you can be sure of it's purity as it's for human consumption.

this topic has bin covered more times than 'what do you get to the gallon' and ' what's the biggest tyres i can fit" combined. there are several freds with all the info you need for each engine and what the draw backs are; ming the brainless has posted stacks of info about running bio and whatnot.
so instead of asking again why don't yer try a search of the forum

stormchaser said:

Hi v8 shaun, I'm tempted now by the veg oil, I have heard lots of conflicting advice about running using elaborate pre-heating systems or just pouring the stuff straight in. It would certainly sort out my fuel bill.......is there any reason it won't work in a 300 tdi ? The cash n carry does 20 litre cans of SVO, just have to work out you get membership! At least with cooking oil you can be sure of it's purity as it's for human consumption.

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Yes will work in 300 tdi as well i have mates that also run there discos and def on it.As i said you do need a bit of diesel to thin and lubricate pump and injectors.You can get membership by saying your self employed just got to make up a company name unless you know someone you can take with you and get two cards. Best of luck!