A sence of proportion

Larry · Dec 27, 2005

Given the recent big brother posts

I wonder in reality, over the next five years, what proportion of us will
actually be languishing in jail, or under the sod as the result of
overzealous policing, or terrorist activity.

Or how many of us will be banned from driving our pride and joys

Maybe if bird flu catches on there won't even be enough police left to
operate all those cameras, which will rust on the poles.

I think most likely the biggest danger to any of us, besides the ever rising
costs of motoring, is being the victim of our own passion and coming a
cropper in our landies.

--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes

Karen Gallagher · Dec 28, 2005

Larry wrote:
..
>
> I think most likely the biggest danger to any of us, besides the ever
> rising costs of motoring, is being the victim of our own passion and
> coming a cropper in our landies.

Ah, what a way to go

--
"I'd far rather be happy than right any day."
- Slartibartfast

TonyB · Dec 28, 2005

> > I think most likely the biggest danger to any of us, besides the ever
> > rising costs of motoring, is being the victim of our own passion and
> > coming a cropper in our landies.
>
> Ah, what a way to go

Just to show how stupid it's all becoming, my parents in Kent have received
notice from the council that they will be fined £50 if they put their
rubbish out too early.

TonyB

Jon · Dec 28, 2005

"TonyB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>> > I think most likely the biggest danger to any of us, besides the ever
>> > rising costs of motoring, is being the victim of our own passion and
>> > coming a cropper in our landies.
>>
>> Ah, what a way to go

>
> Just to show how stupid it's all becoming, my parents in Kent have
> received
> notice from the council that they will be fined £50 if they put their
> rubbish out too early.
>
> TonyB
>
Perhaps they should put it out too late......

Huw · Dec 28, 2005

Jon wrote:
> "TonyB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>>> I think most likely the biggest danger to any of us, besides the
>>>> ever rising costs of motoring, is being the victim of our own
>>>> passion and coming a cropper in our landies.
>>>
>>> Ah, what a way to go

>>
>> Just to show how stupid it's all becoming, my parents in Kent have
>> received
>> notice from the council that they will be fined £50 if they put their
>> rubbish out too early.
>>
>> TonyB
>>
> Perhaps they should put it out too late......

Or they could put it out in a wheelie bin so that the dogs and birds don't
pull it all over the neighbourhood. Some areas look like slums of the
inhabitants own making. Someone has to draw the line as to what is
acceptable and what is not and putting rubbish out in a way that will
minimise inconvenience and 'environmental pollution' has a direct influence
on the quality of life of all the locals. It is a pity if some sensitive
souls take exception to this but maybe they should grow up or get up
earlier.

Huw

Dougal · Dec 28, 2005

Huw wrote:

> Jon wrote:
>
>>"TonyB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>>>I think most likely the biggest danger to any of us, besides the
>>>>>ever rising costs of motoring, is being the victim of our own
>>>>>passion and coming a cropper in our landies.
>>>>
>>>>Ah, what a way to go

>>>
>>>Just to show how stupid it's all becoming, my parents in Kent have
>>>received
>>>notice from the council that they will be fined £50 if they put their
>>>rubbish out too early.
>>>
>>>TonyB
>>>
>>
>>Perhaps they should put it out too late......
>
> Or they could put it out in a wheelie bin so that the dogs and birds don't
> pull it all over the neighbourhood. Some areas look like slums of the
> inhabitants own making. Someone has to draw the line as to what is
> acceptable and what is not and putting rubbish out in a way that will
> minimise inconvenience and 'environmental pollution' has a direct influence
> on the quality of life of all the locals. It is a pity if some sensitive
> souls take exception to this but maybe they should grow up or get up
> earlier.
>
> Huw

Unfortunately I think that the fact that the rubbish is in a wheelie bin
makes no difference - it's still classed as 'too early'.

I must be a sensitive soul because I'm utterly sick of these
'jobsworth's' filling our lives with their petty rules. If they were
just to get on and do their own jobs properly there would be no need for
any of them.

Just like the present Government, of course.

Steve · Dec 28, 2005

Huw wrote:

> Or they could put it out in a wheelie bin so that the dogs and birds don't
> pull it all over the neighbourhood.

Well, no, there is at least one authority in the Uk which has threatened
people for putting out their Wheelie bins too early - Brighton ?

Steve

Tim Hobbs · Dec 28, 2005

>
>Or they could put it out in a wheelie bin so that the dogs and birds don't
>pull it all over the neighbourhood. Some areas look like slums of the
>inhabitants own making. Someone has to draw the line as to what is
>acceptable and what is not and putting rubbish out in a way that will
>minimise inconvenience and 'environmental pollution' has a direct influence
>on the quality of life of all the locals. It is a pity if some sensitive
>souls take exception to this but maybe they should grow up or get up
>earlier.
>
>Huw
>

Councils are increasingly tightening up on collection regimes. We are
now on fortnightly refuse collection and some areas are now issuing
smaller bins to small households. There is, believe it or not, a
black market in large bins! If you get your waste collected
fortnightly and you are away for a long weekend, it's very tempting to
put your bin out a few days early before you leave.

It's all going full circle. Waste collections are subcontracted to
commercial operators who allow their crews to determine their own
hours. They can forego breaks etc to finish earlier. This has lead
to instances of crews starting work at stupid o'clock so they can
finish late morning and go off to second jobs. Several councils are
using or evaluating GPS to police this, with start times limited to
7am or thereabouts. It also allows them to ban crews from major
routes during rush-hour and resolve complaints.

One of the problems now is of 'assisted collections'. If you are
disabled you can get the council to instruct the crew to collect your
bin from inside the garden or even from inside your house. As
collections get earlier more people register for this. Rounds take
longer, crews start earlier and earlier etc etc etc....

Technology will ultimately allow billing by weight, and my company is
involved in a few small scale trials of different methods. It will be
possible to have flexible collections on a 'pay as you go' basis.
Credit for recyclables and debit for waste. The unresolved problem is
'theft' of waste between neighbours.

--
Tim Hobbs

William Tasso · Dec 28, 2005

Huw <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

> Jon wrote:
>> "TonyB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> ...
>>> Just to show how stupid it's all becoming, my parents in Kent have
>>> received
>>> notice from the council that they will be fined £50 if they put their
>>> rubbish out too early.
>>>
>>>
>> Perhaps they should put it out too late......
>
> Or they could put it out in a wheelie bin so that the dogs and birds
> don't
> pull it all over the neighbourhood. Some areas look like slums of the
> inhabitants own making. Someone has to draw the line as to what is
> acceptable and what is not and putting rubbish out in a way that will
> minimise inconvenience and 'environmental pollution' has a direct
> influence
> on the quality of life of all the locals. It is a pity if some
> sensitive
> souls take exception to this but maybe they should grow up or get up
> earlier.

That's what I like to see - throw all the responsibility onto consumers
and householders.

I bet I'm not the only one here old enough to remember that a complete
weeks worth of domestic rubbish from a family household would fit in a
single dustbin. Oh, but silly me - can't use dustbins any more in case
the poor dears hurt their backs lifting them .. and then they have to put
them back - what a chore it must be. Still, I understand there are still
career opportunities in the burger flipping trade.

Incidently, our local council (bless 'em) seem to have hit on a successful
tactic. Households are encouraged to place all food waste in small
plastic bin-boxes (the click-on lid type). Since we've been using this
system the vermin have not bothered our trash at all. Means one needs two
bins in the kitchen though. Probably worth doing even if your local
bin-man doesn't maintain "a recycle for compost" section in his cart.

Personally, I'd be more than happy to burn all combustable waste and
compost the food etc. The remainder[1] I'd gladly consider returning to
the damn fools that manufactured it.

Example of one: today I needed a thermocouple for the gas boiler[2] - the
packaging is more bulky and heavier than the item.

[1] glass and other recyclables excepted
[2] Why do they always give up in the middle of a cold snap?
--
William Tasso

Dougal · Dec 28, 2005

Tim Hobbs wrote:

> Technology will ultimately allow billing by weight

What's the betting that any legislation associated with such a regime
would specify a minimum weight (mass, if one is going to be pedantic)
thereby effectively penalising those of us who generate little rubbbish.

Just like the council tax does for those living alone.

William Tasso · Dec 28, 2005

Dougal <DougalAThiskennel.free-online.co.uk> wrote:

> Tim Hobbs wrote:
>
>> Technology will ultimately allow billing by weight
>
> What's the betting that any legislation associated with such a regime
> would specify a minimum weight ...

Creative accounting gone bonkers.

Just three words I'd like any fool considering such a scheme to consider
(or any other tax really): cost of collection.
--
William Tasso

Tim Hobbs · Dec 28, 2005

On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 21:14:59 -0000, "William Tasso"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Dougal <DougalAThiskennel.free-online.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Tim Hobbs wrote:
>>
>>> Technology will ultimately allow billing by weight
>>
>> What's the betting that any legislation associated with such a regime
>> would specify a minimum weight ...
>
>Creative accounting gone bonkers.
>
>Just three words I'd like any fool considering such a scheme to consider
>(or any other tax really): cost of collection.

Virtually no running cost at all. RFID tag on the bin (about 50p) and
weigh-scale on the truck with reader (£5-£10k per vehicle). Against
the rising costs of waste disposal it's pretty small.

Trouble is, it won't reduce the amount of waste produced. Reduced
collection frequency simply makes householders better at compaction,
not reducing the amount at all. Most household waste is packaging,
and that could be most efficiently reduced at the manufacturing end.

--
Tim Hobbs

Huw · Dec 28, 2005

Dougal wrote:
> Huw wrote:
>
>> Jon wrote:
>>
>>> "TonyB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>>>> I think most likely the biggest danger to any of us, besides the
>>>>>> ever rising costs of motoring, is being the victim of our own
>>>>>> passion and coming a cropper in our landies.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ah, what a way to go

>>>>
>>>> Just to show how stupid it's all becoming, my parents in Kent have
>>>> received
>>>> notice from the council that they will be fined £50 if they put
>>>> their rubbish out too early.
>>>>
>>>> TonyB
>>>>
>>>
>>> Perhaps they should put it out too late......
>>
>> Or they could put it out in a wheelie bin so that the dogs and birds
>> don't pull it all over the neighbourhood. Some areas look like slums
>> of the inhabitants own making. Someone has to draw the line as to
>> what is acceptable and what is not and putting rubbish out in a way
>> that will minimise inconvenience and 'environmental pollution' has a
>> direct influence on the quality of life of all the locals. It is a
>> pity if some sensitive souls take exception to this but maybe they
>> should grow up or get up earlier.
>>
>> Huw
>
> Unfortunately I think that the fact that the rubbish is in a wheelie
> bin makes no difference - it's still classed as 'too early'.
>
> I must be a sensitive soul because I'm utterly sick of these
> 'jobsworth's' filling our lives with their petty rules. If they were
> just to get on and do their own jobs properly there would be no need
> for any of them.
>

Someone would have to clear up the mess. The housholder itself should do it
but all too often there are scum who just don't care and make other people
clear the mess.

Huw

beamendsltd · Dec 29, 2005

In message <[email protected]>
"TonyB" <[email protected]> wrote:

> > > I think most likely the biggest danger to any of us, besides the ever
> > > rising costs of motoring, is being the victim of our own passion and
> > > coming a cropper in our landies.
> >
> > Ah, what a way to go

>
> Just to show how stupid it's all becoming, my parents in Kent have received
> notice from the council that they will be fined £50 if they put their
> rubbish out too early.
>
> TonyB
>
>

I'm affraid that councils just look for any and every excuse to raise
revenue, and are being given the power to enforce anything they like
without any effective appeal. For example, the planners can put you through
the hoops at will, since they get paid for wasting your time and, even if
you win, they *never* have to pay costs, so they can mess you about to
their hearts content. This system is, of course, run by the self-serving
beaurocrats. Meanwhile, our glorious councilors spend their time debating
serious issues like what colour recycling bins to have and Womens Issues
rather than worry about what is actually going on in the council's
domain.

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay

Austin Shackles · Dec 29, 2005

On or around Wed, 28 Dec 2005 21:55:35 +0000, Tim Hobbs <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 21:14:59 -0000, "William Tasso"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Dougal <DougalAThiskennel.free-online.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Tim Hobbs wrote:
>>>
>>>> Technology will ultimately allow billing by weight
>>>
>>> What's the betting that any legislation associated with such a regime
>>> would specify a minimum weight ...
>>
>>Creative accounting gone bonkers.
>>
>>Just three words I'd like any fool considering such a scheme to consider
>>(or any other tax really): cost of collection.
>
>Virtually no running cost at all. RFID tag on the bin (about 50p) and
>weigh-scale on the truck with reader (£5-£10k per vehicle). Against
>the rising costs of waste disposal it's pretty small.
>

That's not what he meant, though, I think he was referring to collection of
the money. Unless that goes into yer council tax.

However, if they're going to start charging for collection of domestic
waste, people are going to be more than slightly narky if the council tax
also goes up.

What I reckon is that the country has gone mad over managers and targetting.
Take the road men, for example. Some years ago, each road had a bloke who
went around fixing things, cutting hedges, clearing drains and so forth.
Then they had a couple of blokes in a van who went around, covering a wider
area, but doing much the same. In both cases, the blokes knew where there
was likely to be a blockrd drain making a flood when it ****ed down, and
went past and unblocked it. They knew where there was likely to be a drift
of dead leaves, and went and shovelled it. They knew all sorts fo trouble
spots on their "patch".

Now, from what I hear, they have a new manager. The manager tells them
where they should go, based on what'd been reported. I suppose what I
should do is to report all manner of things all the time... then we might
get back to haveing enough blokes on the ground to do the job reaonsably.
But firing the managers would help.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Festina Lente" (Hasten slowly) Suetonius (c.70-c.140) Augustus, 25

beamendsltd · Dec 29, 2005

In message <[email protected]>
Austin Shackles <[email protected]> wrote:

> On or around Wed, 28 Dec 2005 21:55:35 +0000, Tim Hobbs <[email protected]>
> enlightened us thusly:
>
> >On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 21:14:59 -0000, "William Tasso"
> ><[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >>Dougal <DougalAThiskennel.free-online.co.uk> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Tim Hobbs wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Technology will ultimately allow billing by weight
> >>>
> >>> What's the betting that any legislation associated with such a regime
> >>> would specify a minimum weight ...
> >>
> >>Creative accounting gone bonkers.
> >>
> >>Just three words I'd like any fool considering such a scheme to consider
> >>(or any other tax really): cost of collection.
> >
> >Virtually no running cost at all. RFID tag on the bin (about 50p) and
> >weigh-scale on the truck with reader (£5-£10k per vehicle). Against
> >the rising costs of waste disposal it's pretty small.
> >
>
> That's not what he meant, though, I think he was referring to collection of
> the money. Unless that goes into yer council tax.
>

Collecting the cost is easy - you and I pay for it. No dosh, no
"certificate". And we get to pay for the new managemenet structure, plus
a bit for the new council offices and annual dinner & dance.

> However, if they're going to start charging for collection of domestic
> waste, people are going to be more than slightly narky if the council tax
> also goes up.
>
> What I reckon is that the country has gone mad over managers and targetting.
> Take the road men, for example. Some years ago, each road had a bloke who
> went around fixing things, cutting hedges, clearing drains and so forth.
> Then they had a couple of blokes in a van who went around, covering a wider
> area, but doing much the same. In both cases, the blokes knew where there
> was likely to be a blockrd drain making a flood when it ****ed down, and
> went past and unblocked it. They knew where there was likely to be a drift
> of dead leaves, and went and shovelled it. They knew all sorts fo trouble
> spots on their "patch".
>
> Now, from what I hear, they have a new manager. The manager tells them
> where they should go, based on what'd been reported. I suppose what I
> should do is to report all manner of things all the time... then we might
> get back to haveing enough blokes on the ground to do the job reaonsably.
> But firing the managers would help.

Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay

Richard Brookman · Dec 29, 2005

....and Austin Shackles spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...

> But firing the managers would help.

Agenda item one in any sensible reorganisation, IMO.

--
Rich
==============================
Disco 300 Tdi auto
S2a 88" SW
Tiggrr (V8 trialler)

Dave Liquorice · Dec 29, 2005

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 09:59:42 -0000, Richard Brookman wrote:

>> But firing the managers would help.
>
> Agenda item one in any sensible reorganisation, IMO.

Agenda item two appoint managers to oversee reorganisation.

B-( Can't win...

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

Steve · Dec 29, 2005

Austin Shackles wrote:

> However, if they're going to start charging for collection of domestic
> waste, people are going to be more than slightly narky if the council tax
> also goes up.

Those of us with businesses have to pay for our rubbish disposal
separately anyway. So what do we get for our rates ? And we don't get to
vote on behalf of the interest on which we pay our rates either.

Steve

Lizzy Taylor · Dec 29, 2005

William Tasso wrote:

> I bet I'm not the only one here old enough to remember that a complete
> weeks worth of domestic rubbish from a family household would fit in a
> single dustbin.

Ours still does. Newspapers (daily broadsheet), glass (a few
bottles/jars per fortnight) and cans (not many at all) go for recycling,
peelings etc go into the worm bin, we buy very little pre-packaged food
and our wheelie bin usually goes out approximately half-full (or half
empty). Even though we are not having a collection this week, the bin
will still take all the rubbish next week. Many of our neighbours
however will have an overflowing bin and several black bags....

Lizzy

A sence of proportion

Larry

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Karen Gallagher

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TonyB

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Jon

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Huw

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Dougal

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Steve

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Tim Hobbs

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William Tasso

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Dougal

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William Tasso

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Tim Hobbs

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Huw

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beamendsltd

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Austin Shackles

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beamendsltd

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Richard Brookman

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Dave Liquorice

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Steve

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Lizzy Taylor

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