300TDi Exhaust - Help please

D

Dougal

Guest

• Feb 5, 2006

• #1

RRC 1994 (MA651...) 300TDi with Catalyst and EGR (22L) (Auto)

The flexible section of the front pipe which also includes the catalyst
has failed and will need to be replaced.

This is the front pipe design that exits vertically down from the
manifold - ESR3495.

One solution is to replace the entire front pipe - either OE or
otherwise - which seems a very expensive way to go when the catalyst is
somewhat unnecessary.

I don't believe that there is another set up with the vertical down
manifold outlet that could yield a catalyst-free pipe.

Someone is selling a flexible repair section a very healthy profit but I
believe that I can get the same parts at a fraction of the price. I have
access to a 'tame' TIG welder so will be able to attach some mild steel
stubs leaving me to weld the assembly into the old pipe.

Second hand parts - probably too much hassle.

Are there any other alternatives that I have failed to consider?

 

B

beamendsltd

Guest

• Feb 5, 2006

• #2

In message <[email protected]>
Dougal <DougalAThiskennel.free-online.co.uk> wrote:

> RRC 1994 (MA651...) 300TDi with Catalyst and EGR (22L) (Auto)
>
> The flexible section of the front pipe which also includes the catalyst
> has failed and will need to be replaced.
>
> This is the front pipe design that exits vertically down from the
> manifold - ESR3495.
>
> One solution is to replace the entire front pipe - either OE or
> otherwise - which seems a very expensive way to go when the catalyst is
> somewhat unnecessary.
>
> I don't believe that there is another set up with the vertical down
> manifold outlet that could yield a catalyst-free pipe.
>
> Someone is selling a flexible repair section a very healthy profit but I
> believe that I can get the same parts at a fraction of the price. I have
> access to a 'tame' TIG welder so will be able to attach some mild steel
> stubs leaving me to weld the assembly into the old pipe.
>
> Second hand parts - probably too much hassle.
>
> Are there any other alternatives that I have failed to consider?

On a 300Tdi Discovery with CAT, the CAT can be deleted by fitting

ESR2740 Down Pipe - 300 Tdi Disco Auto/RRC Non-CAT £47.00 inc VAT
and
ESR2391 Disco Intermediate/Tail Exhaust From MA 081992 - Non CAT £50.00

We have sold these to 300Tdi Range Rover owners before without finding
a mob with burning torches outside, so I assume it works well enough.
The two vehicles were pretty much identcal mechanically by them.

Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay

 

N

ntlworld

Guest

• Feb 5, 2006

• #3

beamendsltd wrote:
> In message <[email protected]>
> Dougal <DougalAThiskennel.free-online.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> RRC 1994 (MA651...) 300TDi with Catalyst and EGR (22L) (Auto)
>>
>> The flexible section of the front pipe which also includes the catalyst
>> has failed and will need to be replaced.
>>
>> This is the front pipe design that exits vertically down from the
>> manifold - ESR3495.
>>
>> One solution is to replace the entire front pipe - either OE or
>> otherwise - which seems a very expensive way to go when the catalyst is
>> somewhat unnecessary.
>>
>> I don't believe that there is another set up with the vertical down
>> manifold outlet that could yield a catalyst-free pipe.
>>
>> Someone is selling a flexible repair section a very healthy profit but I
>> believe that I can get the same parts at a fraction of the price. I have
>> access to a 'tame' TIG welder so will be able to attach some mild steel
>> stubs leaving me to weld the assembly into the old pipe.
>>
>> Second hand parts - probably too much hassle.
>>
>> Are there any other alternatives that I have failed to consider?
>
> On a 300Tdi Discovery with CAT, the CAT can be deleted by fitting
>
> ESR2740 Down Pipe - 300 Tdi Disco Auto/RRC Non-CAT £47.00 inc VAT
> and
> ESR2391 Disco Intermediate/Tail Exhaust From MA 081992 - Non CAT £50.00
>
> We have sold these to 300Tdi Range Rover owners before without finding
> a mob with burning torches outside, so I assume it works well enough.
> The two vehicles were pretty much identcal mechanically by them.
>
> Richard
>

Has anyone ever done the scheduled cat change around 100,000 miles!!

At my last MOT (Feb 05), with the original cat, the Disco (1997) had
225,000 miles and still passed the emissions with nothing more than it's
annual shot of Redex the week before. Can it still be working after all
these miles?

If it is not working and still passes the test, then the tests are........ .

Andy

 

H

Huw

Guest

• Feb 5, 2006

• #4

ntlworld" <"Andy nospam wrote:
>
> Has anyone ever done the scheduled cat change around 100,000 miles!!
>
> At my last MOT (Feb 05), with the original cat, the Disco (1997) had
> 225,000 miles and still passed the emissions with nothing more than
> it's annual shot of Redex the week before. Can it still be working
> after all these miles?
>
> If it is not working and still passes the test, then the tests
> are........ .

not what you think. It is only a test for soot emmision, nothing more.

Huw

 

A

Alex

Guest

• Feb 5, 2006

• #5

On Sun, 5 Feb 2006 21:03:40 -0000, "Huw"
<hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

>ntlworld" <"Andy nospam wrote:
>>
>> Has anyone ever done the scheduled cat change around 100,000 miles!!
>>
>> At my last MOT (Feb 05), with the original cat, the Disco (1997) had
>> 225,000 miles and still passed the emissions with nothing more than
>> it's annual shot of Redex the week before. Can it still be working
>> after all these miles?
>>
>> If it is not working and still passes the test, then the tests
>> are........ .
>
>not what you think. It is only a test for soot emmision, nothing more.
>

Euro III emissions regulations didn't come into effect untill Jan 2000
Euro II are Jan 1997, but the Euro II emissions tests are not
particularly strenuous.

Alex

 

D

Dougal

Guest

• Feb 5, 2006

• #6

beamendsltd wrote:

> In message <[email protected]>
> Dougal <DougalAThiskennel.free-online.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>>RRC 1994 (MA651...) 300TDi with Catalyst and EGR (22L) (Auto)
>>
>>The flexible section of the front pipe which also includes the catalyst
>>has failed and will need to be replaced.
>>
>>This is the front pipe design that exits vertically down from the
>>manifold - ESR3495.
>>
>>One solution is to replace the entire front pipe - either OE or
>>otherwise - which seems a very expensive way to go when the catalyst is
>>somewhat unnecessary.
>>
>>I don't believe that there is another set up with the vertical down
>>manifold outlet that could yield a catalyst-free pipe.
>>
>>Someone is selling a flexible repair section a very healthy profit but I
>>believe that I can get the same parts at a fraction of the price. I have
>>access to a 'tame' TIG welder so will be able to attach some mild steel
>>stubs leaving me to weld the assembly into the old pipe.
>>
>>Second hand parts - probably too much hassle.
>>
>>Are there any other alternatives that I have failed to consider?
>
>
> On a 300Tdi Discovery with CAT, the CAT can be deleted by fitting
>
> ESR2740 Down Pipe - 300 Tdi Disco Auto/RRC Non-CAT £47.00 inc VAT
> and
> ESR2391 Disco Intermediate/Tail Exhaust From MA 081992 - Non CAT £50.00
>
> We have sold these to 300Tdi Range Rover owners before without finding
> a mob with burning torches outside, so I assume it works well enough.
> The two vehicles were pretty much identcal mechanically by them.
>
> Richard

I'd considered that possibility which certainly appears to have been
available to some. The pictures however seem to suggest that they have a
different manifold which does not have a vertical down outlet. Perhaps
someone has been exercising artistic licence in the pictures!

Why Landrover should decide to use a catalyst with EGR for the UK market
is beyond me - and trust me to have one of them.

 

A

A

Guest

• Feb 6, 2006

• #7

> On a 300Tdi Discovery with CAT, the CAT can be deleted by fitting
>
> ESR2740 Down Pipe - 300 Tdi Disco Auto/RRC Non-CAT £47.00 inc VAT
> and
> ESR2391 Disco Intermediate/Tail Exhaust From MA 081992 - Non CAT £50.00
>
> We have sold these to 300Tdi Range Rover owners before without finding
> a mob with burning torches outside, so I assume it works well enough.
> The two vehicles were pretty much identcal mechanically by them.
>
> Richard
>
> --
> www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
> Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
> Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
> Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay


Whilst on this subject, when I fitted a downpipe without cat to my 300 Disco
with egr blanked off, the power dropped signifcantly.
I mean it barely reached 50 mph!!!!! Re-fitted the cat downpipe and the
power came back. I know of a lad with a Defender 300 who
took his cat out and said it transformed the whole car - so what could have
been the problem with mine?

Ali

 

B

beamendsltd

Guest

• Feb 6, 2006

• #8

In message <[email protected]>
Dougal <DougalAThiskennel.free-online.co.uk> wrote:

> beamendsltd wrote:
>
> > In message <[email protected]>
> > Dougal <DougalAThiskennel.free-online.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>RRC 1994 (MA651...) 300TDi with Catalyst and EGR (22L) (Auto)
> >>
> >>The flexible section of the front pipe which also includes the catalyst
> >>has failed and will need to be replaced.
> >>
> >>This is the front pipe design that exits vertically down from the
> >>manifold - ESR3495.
> >>
> >>One solution is to replace the entire front pipe - either OE or
> >>otherwise - which seems a very expensive way to go when the catalyst is
> >>somewhat unnecessary.
> >>
> >>I don't believe that there is another set up with the vertical down
> >>manifold outlet that could yield a catalyst-free pipe.
> >>
> >>Someone is selling a flexible repair section a very healthy profit but I
> >>believe that I can get the same parts at a fraction of the price. I have
> >>access to a 'tame' TIG welder so will be able to attach some mild steel
> >>stubs leaving me to weld the assembly into the old pipe.
> >>
> >>Second hand parts - probably too much hassle.
> >>
> >>Are there any other alternatives that I have failed to consider?
> >
> >
> > On a 300Tdi Discovery with CAT, the CAT can be deleted by fitting
> >
> > ESR2740 Down Pipe - 300 Tdi Disco Auto/RRC Non-CAT £47.00 inc VAT
> > and
> > ESR2391 Disco Intermediate/Tail Exhaust From MA 081992 - Non CAT £50.00
> >
> > We have sold these to 300Tdi Range Rover owners before without finding
> > a mob with burning torches outside, so I assume it works well enough.
> > The two vehicles were pretty much identcal mechanically by them.
> >
> > Richard
>
> I'd considered that possibility which certainly appears to have been
> available to some. The pictures however seem to suggest that they have a
> different manifold which does not have a vertical down outlet. Perhaps
> someone has been exercising artistic licence in the pictures!
>
> Why Landrover should decide to use a catalyst with EGR for the UK market
> is beyond me - and trust me to have one of them.

The exhaust manifold is part of the turbo assembly, and the RRC/Discovery/
Defender all use the same one! Has someone been playing?

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay

 

A

Austin Shackles

Guest

• Feb 6, 2006

• #9

On or around Sun, 5 Feb 2006 17:22:42 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>In message <[email protected]>
> Dougal <DougalAThiskennel.free-online.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>> Are there any other alternatives that I have failed to consider?
>
>On a 300Tdi Discovery with CAT, the CAT can be deleted by fitting
>
>ESR2740 Down Pipe - 300 Tdi Disco Auto/RRC Non-CAT £47.00 inc VAT

that's what I fitted on our 300 TDi. 2 immediately obvious pluses are that

a) you don't have to dismantle the front half of the vehicle to fit it and
b) the thing goes faster.

WRT a): I had to hacksaw through the old "cat" front pipe to get it off and
to get one off/on in one piece would require removal of the geaqrbox
crossmember, AFAICS. Open to evidence that this isn't so - but there was no
way the old one was gonna come off.

the new non-cat pipe will *just* go in without removing anything and has the
same flange to connect to the intermeditate box so I don't see you have to
replace the box/tailpipe sections if they're still OK.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Blue: The sky is blue for a reason. Blue light is a source of strength
and harmony in the cosmos. Create a blue light in your life by
telephoning the police
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.

 

A

Austin Shackles

Guest

• Feb 6, 2006

• #10

On or around Sun, 05 Feb 2006 22:21:35 +0000, Dougal
<DougalAThiskennel.free-online.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:

>
>I'd considered that possibility which certainly appears to have been
>available to some. The pictures however seem to suggest that they have a
>different manifold which does not have a vertical down outlet. Perhaps
>someone has been exercising artistic licence in the pictures!

the 300 TDi front pipe, non-cat, is a direct replacement for the cat one but
without a cat.
>
>Why Landrover should decide to use a catalyst with EGR for the UK market
>is beyond me - and trust me to have one of them.

On ours, I blanked off the EGR
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Blue: The sky is blue for a reason. Blue light is a source of strength
and harmony in the cosmos. Create a blue light in your life by
telephoning the police
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.

 

H

Huw

Guest

• Feb 6, 2006

• #11

Alex wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Feb 2006 21:03:40 -0000, "Huw"
> <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> ntlworld" <"Andy nospam wrote:
>>>
>>> Has anyone ever done the scheduled cat change around 100,000 miles!!
>>>
>>> At my last MOT (Feb 05), with the original cat, the Disco (1997) had
>>> 225,000 miles and still passed the emissions with nothing more than
>>> it's annual shot of Redex the week before. Can it still be working
>>> after all these miles?
>>>
>>> If it is not working and still passes the test, then the tests
>>> are........ .
>>
>> not what you think. It is only a test for soot emmision, nothing
>> more.
>>
>
> Euro III emissions regulations didn't come into effect untill Jan 2000
> Euro II are Jan 1997, but the Euro II emissions tests are not
> particularly strenuous.
>

AFAIK irrespective of engine build spec and date, all they test for at an
MOT is soot.

Huw

 

D

Dougal

Guest

• Feb 6, 2006

• #12

beamendsltd wrote:
> In message <[email protected]>
> Dougal <DougalAThiskennel.free-online.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>>beamendsltd wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In message <[email protected]>
>>> Dougal <DougalAThiskennel.free-online.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>RRC 1994 (MA651...) 300TDi with Catalyst and EGR (22L) (Auto)
>>>>
>>>>The flexible section of the front pipe which also includes the catalyst
>>>>has failed and will need to be replaced.
>>>>
>>>>This is the front pipe design that exits vertically down from the
>>>>manifold - ESR3495.
>>>>
>>>>One solution is to replace the entire front pipe - either OE or
>>>>otherwise - which seems a very expensive way to go when the catalyst is
>>>>somewhat unnecessary.
>>>>
>>>>I don't believe that there is another set up with the vertical down
>>>>manifold outlet that could yield a catalyst-free pipe.
>>>>
>>>>Someone is selling a flexible repair section at a very healthy profit but
>>>>I believe that I can get the same parts at a fraction of the price. I have
>>>>access to a 'tame' TIG welder so will be able to attach some mild steel
>>>>stubs leaving me to weld the assembly into the old pipe.
>>>>
>>>>Second hand parts - probably too much hassle.
>>>>
>>>>Are there any other alternatives that I have failed to consider?
>>>
>>>
>>>On a 300Tdi Discovery with CAT, the CAT can be deleted by fitting
>>>
>>>ESR2740 Down Pipe - 300 Tdi Disco Auto/RRC Non-CAT £47.00 inc VAT
>>>and
>>>ESR2391 Disco Intermediate/Tail Exhaust From MA 081992 - Non CAT £50.00
>>>
>>>We have sold these to 300Tdi Range Rover owners before without finding
>>>a mob with burning torches outside, so I assume it works well enough.
>>>The two vehicles were pretty much identical mechanically by then.
>>>
>>>Richard
>>
>>I'd considered that possibility which certainly appears to have been
>>available to some. The pictures however seem to suggest that they have a
>>different manifold which does not have a vertical down outlet. Perhaps
>>someone has been exercising artistic licence in the pictures!
>>
>>Why Landrover should decide to use a catalyst with EGR for the UK market
>>is beyond me - and trust me to have one of them.
>
>
> The exhaust manifold is part of the turbo assembly, and the RRC/Discovery/
> Defender all use the same one! Has someone been playing?
>
> Richard

If there is only only manifold for all the 300TDis then someone has been
excerising their artistic talents on the pictures. The parts are original.

As the rear pipework has lots of life left, it will not be sacrificed
this time but there does seem to be solution for the next occasion.

Thanks to all who have offered suggestions.

 

S

Simon Isaacs

Guest

• Feb 7, 2006

• #13

On Mon, 6 Feb 2006 10:12:54 -0000, "Huw"
<hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> scribbled the following nonsense:

>Alex wrote:
>> On Sun, 5 Feb 2006 21:03:40 -0000, "Huw"
>> <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> ntlworld" <"Andy nospam wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Has anyone ever done the scheduled cat change around 100,000 miles!!
>>>>
>>>> At my last MOT (Feb 05), with the original cat, the Disco (1997) had
>>>> 225,000 miles and still passed the emissions with nothing more than
>>>> it's annual shot of Redex the week before. Can it still be working
>>>> after all these miles?
>>>>
>>>> If it is not working and still passes the test, then the tests
>>>> are........ .
>>>
>>> not what you think. It is only a test for soot emmision, nothing
>>> more.
>>>
>>
>> Euro III emissions regulations didn't come into effect untill Jan 2000
>> Euro II are Jan 1997, but the Euro II emissions tests are not
>> particularly strenuous.
>>
>
>AFAIK irrespective of engine build spec and date, all they test for at an
>MOT is soot.
>

just different limits apply according to when the vehicle (or engine)
was built
--

Simon Isaacs

Peterborough 4x4 Club Newsletter Editor and Webmaster
Green Lane Association (GLASS) Financial Director
101 Ambi, undergoing camper conversion www.simoni.co.uk
1976 S3 LWT, Fully restored, ready for sale! Make me an offer!
Suzuki SJ410 (Wife's) 3" lift kit fitted, body shell now restored and mounted on chassis, waiting on a windscreen and MOT
Series 3 88" Rolling chassis...what to do next
1993 200 TDi Discovery
1994 200 TDi Discovery body sheel, being bobbed and modded.....

 

H

Huw

Guest

• Feb 7, 2006

• #14

Simon Isaacs wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Feb 2006 10:12:54 -0000, "Huw"
> <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> scribbled the following nonsense:
>
>> Alex wrote:
>>> On Sun, 5 Feb 2006 21:03:40 -0000, "Huw"
>>> <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> ntlworld" <"Andy nospam wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Has anyone ever done the scheduled cat change around 100,000
>>>>> miles!!
>>>>>
>>>>> At my last MOT (Feb 05), with the original cat, the Disco (1997)
>>>>> had 225,000 miles and still passed the emissions with nothing
>>>>> more than it's annual shot of Redex the week before. Can it still
>>>>> be working after all these miles?
>>>>>
>>>>> If it is not working and still passes the test, then the tests
>>>>> are........ .
>>>>
>>>> not what you think. It is only a test for soot emmision, nothing
>>>> more.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Euro III emissions regulations didn't come into effect untill Jan
>>> 2000 Euro II are Jan 1997, but the Euro II emissions tests are not
>>> particularly strenuous.
>>>
>>
>> AFAIK irrespective of engine build spec and date, all they test for
>> at an MOT is soot.
>>
>
> just different limits apply according to when the vehicle (or engine)
> was built

Yes, and the removal of cat and disabling the EGR will not affect the soot
emmission except to possibly improve [lessen] it.

Huw