300tdi cutting out

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larry90

Guest
Can anyone make any suggestions please?

300Tdi in a '96 Defender 90 CSW has cut out twice, whilst driving.

No particular event preceded either occasion and luckily they weren't in the
outside lane of a motorway!!

Whilst driving along quite happily the power goes and ignition lights etc
come on. Attempting to start again results in engine turning over very
freely but not firing (normally the engine fires very quickly).

If left for a few minutes, say 5, the engine fires up again with no
indication there was ever a problem..................bless it !!

Last time it happened I removed the fuel filter and there was plenty of fuel
there, sadly didn't have spanners so couldn't check fuel presence at pump /
injectors.

Other thoughts were electrical, can anyone explain how the ignition switch
turns a diesel off, is there a solenoid valve or something in the fuel
supply train? I'm embarrassed to ask such a silly question but I'm more used
to petrol engines - that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it.

Thanks for any help,

Dave


 
>
> Whilst driving along quite happily the power goes and ignition lights etc
> come on. Attempting to start again results in engine turning over very
> freely but not firing (normally the engine fires very quickly).
>
When you say the ignition lights come on, does the battery light come on
(and no others) after the engine has cut out, but while it is still being
turned by the movement of the vehicle? If so, this indicates that there is a
fault on the ignition circuit.

If the ignition lights (battery, oil) come on after the engine has stopped
turning, that is normal.

When it cuts out, does it cut dead, or does it lose power first?

>
> Other thoughts were electrical, can anyone explain how the ignition switch
> turns a diesel off, is there a solenoid valve or something in the fuel
> supply train?
>
There is a fuel cut off solenoid on the back of the fuel pump, just above
the injector pipes. Check the wire to this, make sure there are no breaks in
it etc.


 
In article <[email protected]>, larry90
<[email protected]> writes
>Other thoughts were electrical, can anyone explain how the ignition switch
>turns a diesel off, is there a solenoid valve or something in the fuel
>supply train? I'm embarrassed to ask such a silly question but I'm more used
>to petrol engines - that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it.

I had this problem (89 110 TD CSW), finally traced to a dodgy ignition
switch. Given the difference in age & design this may be irrelevant, but
have a look anyway. On mine, the original ignition/glow-plug circuits
are not a nice piece of design :( YMMV, but have a careful check anyway.

Getting the switch off is a real pain (awkward/no access & tiny screws,
easily lost - we're down to just one holding the switch on now :( ), but
once it's separated from the lock you can turn it with a
carefully-chosen flat bladed screwdriver If there's any slop, or signs
of heating around the connectors, I suggest you replace it.

Regards,

Simonm.

--
simonm|at|muircom|dot|demon|.|c|oh|dot|u|kay
SIMON MUIR, UK INDEPENDENCE PARTY, BRISTOL www.ukip.org
EUROPEANS AGAINST THE EU www.members.aol.com/eurofaq
GT250A'76 R80/RT'86 110CSW TD'88 www.kc3ltd.co.uk/profile/eurofollie/
 
My 300Tdi Discovery used to do exactly this ... finally traced the
problem to a dirty electrical connection to the fuel cut-off solenoid.
Removed the spade connector, cleaned up the terminal and replaced the
connector - no more problem. Gotta be worth a try ;-)

The cut-off solenoid is mounted on the injection pump block and has a
single wire going to it.

Regards

Steve G



larry90 wrote:
> Can anyone make any suggestions please?
>
> 300Tdi in a '96 Defender 90 CSW has cut out twice, whilst driving.
>
> No particular event preceded either occasion and luckily they weren't in the
> outside lane of a motorway!!
>
> Whilst driving along quite happily the power goes and ignition lights etc
> come on. Attempting to start again results in engine turning over very
> freely but not firing (normally the engine fires very quickly).
>
> If left for a few minutes, say 5, the engine fires up again with no
> indication there was ever a problem..................bless it !!
>
> Last time it happened I removed the fuel filter and there was plenty of fuel
> there, sadly didn't have spanners so couldn't check fuel presence at pump /
> injectors.
>
> Other thoughts were electrical, can anyone explain how the ignition switch
> turns a diesel off, is there a solenoid valve or something in the fuel
> supply train? I'm embarrassed to ask such a silly question but I'm more used
> to petrol engines - that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it.
>
> Thanks for any help,
>
> Dave
>
>
 
Hi Simon,

The engine doesn't appear to lose power first, it just dies and both
ignition and oil lights come on.

Thanks for your help,

Dave
"SimonJ" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >
> > Whilst driving along quite happily the power goes and ignition lights
etc
> > come on. Attempting to start again results in engine turning over very
> > freely but not firing (normally the engine fires very quickly).
> >
> When you say the ignition lights come on, does the battery light come on
> (and no others) after the engine has cut out, but while it is still being
> turned by the movement of the vehicle? If so, this indicates that there is
a
> fault on the ignition circuit.
>
> If the ignition lights (battery, oil) come on after the engine has stopped
> turning, that is normal.
>
> When it cuts out, does it cut dead, or does it lose power first?
>
> >
> > Other thoughts were electrical, can anyone explain how the ignition
switch
> > turns a diesel off, is there a solenoid valve or something in the fuel
> > supply train?
> >
> There is a fuel cut off solenoid on the back of the fuel pump, just above
> the injector pipes. Check the wire to this, make sure there are no breaks
in
> it etc.
>
>


 

Certainly sounds like the injector pump solenoid, it gets 12volts
when the ignition is on which pulls the solenoid plunger out of the
fuel supply and allows the fuel to flow. Turning off the ignition
drops the plunger causing the engine to stop through fuel starvation.

The wiring conection is prone to rust so could fail, replacement
costs around £15 and is a simple screwout/screwin job - you may get
away without bleeding the system. I have seen several solenoids fail -
one even melted, so its worth carrying a spare in the car.

If it only happens in the rain change the windscreen vent
seals..suspect water behing the dashboard.

ChrisG
300tdi def 110
53 80"


"larry90" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Can anyone make any suggestions please?
>
> 300Tdi in a '96 Defender 90 CSW has cut out twice, whilst driving.
>
> No particular event preceded either occasion and luckily they
weren't in the
> outside lane of a motorway!!
>
> Whilst driving along quite happily the power goes and ignition
lights etc
> come on. Attempting to start again results in engine turning over
very
> freely but not firing (normally the engine fires very quickly).
>
> If left for a few minutes, say 5, the engine fires up again with no
> indication there was ever a problem..................bless it !!
>
> Last time it happened I removed the fuel filter and there was plenty
of fuel
> there, sadly didn't have spanners so couldn't check fuel presence at
pump /
> injectors.
>
> Other thoughts were electrical, can anyone explain how the ignition
switch
> turns a diesel off, is there a solenoid valve or something in the
fuel
> supply train? I'm embarrassed to ask such a silly question but I'm
more used
> to petrol engines - that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it.
>
> Thanks for any help,
>
> Dave
>
>


 
I had this on my diso 300tdi and it was the fuel cut off solenoid pigtail.
Either remove the spade connector and replace it, or just try to squash the
connector a bit so it makes better contact.

At least that would be the cheap fix.

Regards
Stephen


 
In message <[email protected]>, larry90
<[email protected]> writes
>Can anyone make any suggestions please?
>
>300Tdi in a '96 Defender 90 CSW has cut out twice, whilst driving.
>
>No particular event preceded either occasion and luckily they weren't in the
>outside lane of a motorway!!
>
>Whilst driving along quite happily the power goes and ignition lights etc
>come on. Attempting to start again results in engine turning over very
>freely but not firing (normally the engine fires very quickly).
>
>If left for a few minutes, say 5, the engine fires up again with no
>indication there was ever a problem..................bless it !!
>
>Last time it happened I removed the fuel filter and there was plenty of fuel
>there, sadly didn't have spanners so couldn't check fuel presence at pump /
>injectors.
>
>Other thoughts were electrical, can anyone explain how the ignition switch
>turns a diesel off, is there a solenoid valve or something in the fuel
>supply train? I'm embarrassed to ask such a silly question but I'm more used
>to petrol engines - that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it.



As others have said check the wire to the fuel cut off solenoid.

If that is OK..

Is it fitted with an alarm ?
--
Marc Draper
 
Hi Mark,
yes it has the LR immobiliser fitted - I was wondering whether that could be
in the loop. I've followed the majority vote and cleaned/replaced the
connector to the solenoid but the engine cut out again last night.

I noticed that when the ignition is on and I remove the spade I get a spark
as I re-attach the spade if the engine is working ok. Last night, because I
didn't have a multimeter with me, I pulled the spade off but couldn't coax
any spark so I assume no juice to the connector.

Again the engine started after approx 5 mins in spite of rather than because
of anything I did.

I'll look at the ignition switch next but does anybody know if the
immobiliser can be removed/bypassed - I'd rather have an electronic free
system and take other measures for security.

Thanks again for all the helpful suggestions

Dave

"Marc Draper" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In message <[email protected]>, larry90
> <[email protected]> writes
> >Can anyone make any suggestions please?
> >
> >300Tdi in a '96 Defender 90 CSW has cut out twice, whilst driving.
> >
> >No particular event preceded either occasion and luckily they weren't in
the
> >outside lane of a motorway!!
> >
> >Whilst driving along quite happily the power goes and ignition lights etc
> >come on. Attempting to start again results in engine turning over very
> >freely but not firing (normally the engine fires very quickly).
> >
> >If left for a few minutes, say 5, the engine fires up again with no
> >indication there was ever a problem..................bless it !!
> >
> >Last time it happened I removed the fuel filter and there was plenty of
fuel
> >there, sadly didn't have spanners so couldn't check fuel presence at pump
/
> >injectors.
> >
> >Other thoughts were electrical, can anyone explain how the ignition
switch
> >turns a diesel off, is there a solenoid valve or something in the fuel
> >supply train? I'm embarrassed to ask such a silly question but I'm more
used
> >to petrol engines - that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it.
>
>
>
> As others have said check the wire to the fuel cut off solenoid.
>
> If that is OK..
>
> Is it fitted with an alarm ?
> --
> Marc Draper


 
In article <[email protected]>, larry90 wrote:
> Hi Mark,
> yes it has the LR immobiliser fitted - I was wondering whether that could be
> in the loop. I've followed the majority vote and cleaned/replaced the
> connector to the solenoid but the engine cut out again last night.
>
> I noticed that when the ignition is on and I remove the spade I get a spark
> as I re-attach the spade if the engine is working ok. Last night, because I
> didn't have a multimeter with me, I pulled the spade off but couldn't coax
> any spark so I assume no juice to the connector.
>

Isn't this the sort of thing you get when the alarm spider starts playing up?

The one on my 110 is in the seatbox under the passenger seat. Apparently
they suffer from dry joints and can cause problems.

Not sure if the spider thing only affects Disco's though.

Just an idea.

--
simon at sbarr dot demon dot co dot uk
Simon Barr.
'97 110 300Tdi.
 
I've got a horrible feeling you're right - I'm trying to find out if there
is a way of immobilising the immobiliser at the moment.
"Simon Barr" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, larry90 wrote:
> > Hi Mark,
> > yes it has the LR immobiliser fitted - I was wondering whether that
could be
> > in the loop. I've followed the majority vote and cleaned/replaced the
> > connector to the solenoid but the engine cut out again last night.
> >
> > I noticed that when the ignition is on and I remove the spade I get a
spark
> > as I re-attach the spade if the engine is working ok. Last night,
because I
> > didn't have a multimeter with me, I pulled the spade off but couldn't
coax
> > any spark so I assume no juice to the connector.
> >
>
> Isn't this the sort of thing you get when the alarm spider starts playing
up?
>
> The one on my 110 is in the seatbox under the passenger seat. Apparently
> they suffer from dry joints and can cause problems.
>
> Not sure if the spider thing only affects Disco's though.
>
> Just an idea.
>
> --
> simon at sbarr dot demon dot co dot uk
> Simon Barr.
> '97 110 300Tdi.


 
In message <[email protected]>, larry90
<[email protected]> writes
>Hi Mark,
>yes it has the LR immobiliser fitted - I was wondering whether that could be
>in the loop. I've followed the majority vote and cleaned/replaced the
>connector to the solenoid but the engine cut out again last night.
>
>I noticed that when the ignition is on and I remove the spade I get a spark
>as I re-attach the spade if the engine is working ok. Last night, because I
>didn't have a multimeter with me, I pulled the spade off but couldn't coax
>any spark so I assume no juice to the connector.
>
>Again the engine started after approx 5 mins in spite of rather than because
>of anything I did.
>
>I'll look at the ignition switch next but does anybody know if the
>immobiliser can be removed/bypassed - I'd rather have an electronic free
>system and take other measures for security.
>
>Thanks again for all the helpful suggestions
>
>Dave



If that is the case then my money is on the alarm spider. LR do a kit to
replace it.
--
Marc Draper
 
In article <[email protected]>, Marc Draper wrote:
>
>
>
> If that is the case then my money is on the alarm spider. LR do a kit to
> replace it.

I thought it was possible to open it up and resolder the iffy joints. Damm
sight cheaper than replacing it I should think.

--
simon at sbarr dot demon dot co dot uk
Simon Barr.
'97 110 300Tdi.
 
In message <[email protected]>, Simon Barr <[email protected]>
writes
>I thought it was possible to open it up and resolder the iffy joints. Damm
>sight cheaper than replacing it I should think.
>


Yes I agree. But only if you know what you are doing.


--
Marc Draper
 
Hi You Can Get A Link Lead From Landrover Sorry Dont Know Part No But Does Not Cost That Much,you Just Disconect The Connector To The Spyder And Plug In A Link Lead To Bypass The Spyder,then You Can Remove Spyder And Drill Out About 6 Rivets And Resolder The Joints That Have Gone Dry,and Replace It If You Want To,i Would Check Out The Spyder As From My Experiance It Sounds Like It,you Dont Always Loose Cranking Its Normally Just One Side Of The Immobilisation Which Happens To Be The Fuel Side,you Cant Just Run A Wire To The Fuel Cut Off Solenoid From Say A 12v Feed As The Spyder Works In A Funny Way And Needs Certain Inputs And Outputs To Let Vechile Run Otherwise Any Thief Could Easily Hot Wire Your Car Hope This Helps,tiga.
 
Thankyou everyone for your helpful inputs, I'll let you know what the fix
was when I achieve that glorious moment !!

Dave
"ChrisG" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Certainly sounds like the injector pump solenoid, it gets 12volts
> when the ignition is on which pulls the solenoid plunger out of the
> fuel supply and allows the fuel to flow. Turning off the ignition
> drops the plunger causing the engine to stop through fuel starvation.
>
> The wiring conection is prone to rust so could fail, replacement
> costs around £15 and is a simple screwout/screwin job - you may get
> away without bleeding the system. I have seen several solenoids fail -
> one even melted, so its worth carrying a spare in the car.
>
> If it only happens in the rain change the windscreen vent
> seals..suspect water behing the dashboard.
>
> ChrisG
> 300tdi def 110
> 53 80"
>
>
> "larry90" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Can anyone make any suggestions please?
> >
> > 300Tdi in a '96 Defender 90 CSW has cut out twice, whilst driving.
> >
> > No particular event preceded either occasion and luckily they
> weren't in the
> > outside lane of a motorway!!
> >
> > Whilst driving along quite happily the power goes and ignition
> lights etc
> > come on. Attempting to start again results in engine turning over
> very
> > freely but not firing (normally the engine fires very quickly).
> >
> > If left for a few minutes, say 5, the engine fires up again with no
> > indication there was ever a problem..................bless it !!
> >
> > Last time it happened I removed the fuel filter and there was plenty
> of fuel
> > there, sadly didn't have spanners so couldn't check fuel presence at
> pump /
> > injectors.
> >
> > Other thoughts were electrical, can anyone explain how the ignition
> switch
> > turns a diesel off, is there a solenoid valve or something in the
> fuel
> > supply train? I'm embarrassed to ask such a silly question but I'm
> more used
> > to petrol engines - that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it.
> >
> > Thanks for any help,
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
>
>


 
"larry90" <[email protected]> Said

> Hi Mark,
> yes it has the LR immobiliser fitted - I was wondering whether that
> could be in the loop. I've followed the majority vote and
> cleaned/replaced the connector to the solenoid but the engine cut out
> again last night.
>
> I noticed that when the ignition is on and I remove the spade I get a
> spark as I re-attach the spade if the engine is working ok. Last
> night, because I didn't have a multimeter with me, I pulled the spade
> off but couldn't coax any spark so I assume no juice to the connector.
>
> Again the engine started after approx 5 mins in spite of rather than
> because of anything I did.
>
> I'll look at the ignition switch next but does anybody know if the
> immobiliser can be removed/bypassed - I'd rather have an electronic
> free system and take other measures for security.
>
> Thanks again for all the helpful suggestions
>

Hi Dave, I had the same problem with my 300tdi Disco, I traced the fault
to the "immobiliser ecu" located underneath the radio. Apparently it is
a common fault see - http://www.carelect.demon.co.uk/rrdisco.html

I found a website that described in great detail the procedure to
repair the ecu but i have since upgraded my pc and the link is nowhere
to be found, suggest you google for "300tdi immobiliser"

In brief it involves removal of the centre piece of the dashboard to
access the unit, once you have the unit out and opened you need to
resolder the relays to the pcb and the unit should then work as lucas
intended.

A temporary fix is to run a single core cable from an ignition switched
fuse directly to the stop solenoid on the injector pump. If you dont
fancy dismantling the dashboard i'm sure most good alarm fitters would
be able to fit an aftermarket alarm/immobiliser and totally bypass the
LandRover system.


hth
__
Andy
96 300tdi
78 101 ambi
 
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