2.5 litre sherpa diesel no-start

T

terry

Guest

• Sep 5, 2004

• #1

Hi All,

Just finished rebuilding after replacing the hotspots in my landy
cylinder head. Damn thing won't start!

I have bled the fuel filter using the lift pump, and found one bleed
screw on the diesel pump, again bled with lift pump.

I have diesel to the injectors, and glow plugs are working. She don't
go, doesn't even try...

How long *should* the glow plugs need?

Is there only one bleed screw on the pump?

Any other suggestions?

Thanks gang, Terry

 

S

Simon Atkinson

Guest

• Sep 5, 2004

• #2

terry wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Just finished rebuilding after replacing the hotspots in my landy
> cylinder head. Damn thing won't start!
>
> I have bled the fuel filter using the lift pump, and found one bleed
> screw on the diesel pump, again bled with lift pump.
>
> I have diesel to the injectors, and glow plugs are working. She don't
> go, doesn't even try...
>
> How long should the glow plugs need?
>
> Is there only one bleed screw on the pump?
>
> Any other suggestions?

Dunno if it'll help, but the easiest way I find to get a diesel to
start if it's air-locked is to crack off the injector pipe to number
one cylinder a couple of turns and then crank the engine on the starter
- once you start getting diesel everywhere, she normally goes and you
can have a mate tighten the pipe again!

 

T

Tim Hobbs

Guest

• Sep 5, 2004

• #3

On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 13:37:51 GMT, terry <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Hi All,
>
>Just finished rebuilding after replacing the hotspots in my landy
>cylinder head. Damn thing won't start!
>
>I have bled the fuel filter using the lift pump, and found one bleed
>screw on the diesel pump, again bled with lift pump.
>
>I have diesel to the injectors, and glow plugs are working. She don't
>go, doesn't even try...
>
>How long *should* the glow plugs need?
>
>Is there only one bleed screw on the pump?
>
>Any other suggestions?
>
>Thanks gang, Terry

On the one I sold a few months ago, anything up to 90 seconds was
required to get it going! I suspect the plugs on that were shot, but
definitely give it a try with a really long plug warm-up.


--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt"
'03 Volvo V70

My Landies? http://www.seriesii.co.uk
Barcoding? http://www.bartec-systems.com
Tony Luckwill web archive at http://www.luckwill.com

 

P

PDannyD

Guest

• Sep 5, 2004

• #4

"terry" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]
> Hi All,
>
> Just finished rebuilding after replacing the hotspots in my landy
> cylinder head. Damn thing won't start!

A good shot of Easy Start (aka 'sniff') should start the engine. It if runs
well then you can probably assume the injection system is ok and concentrate
on the glow plugs.

--
FZS600 - Silver/Black
GS125 - Black/Rust
Ford 100E Prefect - Black, naturally
Whisky - Aberlour Cask Strength

 

A

Austin Shackles

Guest

• Sep 5, 2004

• #5

On or around Sun, 05 Sep 2004 14:49:00 +0100, Tim Hobbs
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>
>On the one I sold a few months ago, anything up to 90 seconds was
>required to get it going! I suspect the plugs on that were shot, but
>definitely give it a try with a really long plug warm-up.

that's nominal for those engines and for old LR 2.25s, IME. The 1800
burper used to need about 60 seconds on a warm day, 90 seconds on a cold
day, and flatly refused to start if you tried to short-cut by even 20
seconds. They're very slow plugs.

you might be able to fit faster ones, of course...

 

E

EMB

Guest

• Sep 5, 2004

• #6

Austin Shackles wrote:


> that's nominal for those engines and for old LR 2.25s, IME. The 1800
> burper used to need about 60 seconds on a warm day, 90 seconds on a cold
> day, and flatly refused to start if you tried to short-cut by even 20
> seconds. They're very slow plugs.
>
> you might be able to fit faster ones, of course...

A good supplier of glow plugs should have the reference book for the
entire range, which gives (among other things) the time to glow fully.
It's not advisable to exceed this by more than a few seconds or the glow
plugs last for very little time. If the plugs are 11 or 12 volt you can
take them out and hook them straight to a battery and check that they
glow red in the time as stated above - if they take longer they're
either the wrong ones or they're knackered. About 25 seconds glow is
enough to spark up the 2.25D that I look after.


--
EMB
change two to number to reply

 

A

Austin Shackles

Guest

• Sep 5, 2004

• #7

On or around Mon, 06 Sep 2004 08:03:28 +1200, EMB <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>Austin Shackles wrote:
>
>
>> that's nominal for those engines and for old LR 2.25s, IME. The 1800
>> burper used to need about 60 seconds on a warm day, 90 seconds on a cold
>> day, and flatly refused to start if you tried to short-cut by even 20
>> seconds. They're very slow plugs.
>>
>> you might be able to fit faster ones, of course...
>
>A good supplier of glow plugs should have the reference book for the
>entire range, which gives (among other things) the time to glow fully.
>It's not advisable to exceed this by more than a few seconds or the glow
>plugs last for very little time. If the plugs are 11 or 12 volt you can
> take them out and hook them straight to a battery and check that they
>glow red in the time as stated above - if they take longer they're
>either the wrong ones or they're knackered. About 25 seconds glow is
>enough to spark up the 2.25D that I look after.

it's dependant on ambient temperature, as well, or was on the burper. in
cold weather, it definitley needed 90 seconds in the morning. in hot
weather 60 was enough. Mind, they may have been series glow plugs, not
parallel ones.

 

E

EMB

Guest

• Sep 5, 2004

• #8

Austin Shackles wrote:

> it's dependant on ambient temperature, as well, or was on the burper. in
> cold weather, it definitley needed 90 seconds in the morning. in hot
> weather 60 was enough. Mind, they may have been series glow plugs, not
> parallel ones.

I just rang Lawrence and got him to fire the old girl up. Ambient about
4 degrees and about 20 seconds glow (with parallel plugs) and it burst
into life happily enough.


--
EMB
change two to number to reply

 

T

Tom Woods

Guest

• Sep 5, 2004

• #9

On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 13:37:51 GMT, terry <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Hi All,
>
>Just finished rebuilding after replacing the hotspots in my landy
>cylinder head. Damn thing won't start!
>
>I have bled the fuel filter using the lift pump, and found one bleed
>screw on the diesel pump, again bled with lift pump.
>
>I have diesel to the injectors, and glow plugs are working. She don't
>go, doesn't even try...
>
>How long *should* the glow plugs need?

I have put new glow plugs in mine and they take about 14 seconds to
glow. I asked em in the shop. You have a few options as to what sort
of plugs you put in.

>Is there only one bleed screw on the pump?
>
>Any other suggestions?

Sherpa 2.5 here too.

Mine doesnt have any bleed screws on - or atleast ive never found em!

I generally pump it up to the fuel filter using the lift pump.
Then crack off the injector pipes at the injectors and the injector
pump return at the flter. After that i sit and turn it over for a
while to get rid of any air (mine always tends to airlock on the
injector pump return). Ive made a remote cranking switch so i can
stand at the front and turn it over!

After that, then it generally takes artlease 3 mins of cranking it
over until it will start.

I had to replace my lift pump recently and it took me ages!. The
procedure i followed was:

Prime as detailed above
make sure battery was fully charged
Give it the required glow, and then keep cranking until the battery
dies.
Charge up battery over night
Correct amount of glow, and then keep cranking. Kicked in this time.
As soon as it starts trying to cough then youve got far enough.

Also. check your fuel solenoid!. If that isnt clicking and getting 12V
then it wont do anything!

 

J

Jon

Guest

• Sep 5, 2004

• #10

"Tom Woods" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 13:37:51 GMT, terry <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Hi All,
> >
> >Just finished rebuilding after replacing the hotspots in my landy
> >cylinder head. Damn thing won't start!
> >
> >I have bled the fuel filter using the lift pump, and found one bleed
> >screw on the diesel pump, again bled with lift pump.
> >
> >I have diesel to the injectors, and glow plugs are working. She don't
> >go, doesn't even try...
> >
> >How long *should* the glow plugs need?
>
> I have put new glow plugs in mine and they take about 14 seconds to
> glow. I asked em in the shop. You have a few options as to what sort
> of plugs you put in.
>
> >Is there only one bleed screw on the pump?
> >
> >Any other suggestions?
>
> Sherpa 2.5 here too.
>
> Mine doesnt have any bleed screws on - or atleast ive never found em!
>
> I generally pump it up to the fuel filter using the lift pump.
> Then crack off the injector pipes at the injectors and the injector
> pump return at the flter. After that i sit and turn it over for a
> while to get rid of any air (mine always tends to airlock on the
> injector pump return). Ive made a remote cranking switch so i can
> stand at the front and turn it over!
>
> After that, then it generally takes artlease 3 mins of cranking it
> over until it will start.
>
> I had to replace my lift pump recently and it took me ages!. The
> procedure i followed was:
>
> Prime as detailed above
> make sure battery was fully charged
> Give it the required glow, and then keep cranking until the battery
> dies.
> Charge up battery over night
> Correct amount of glow, and then keep cranking. Kicked in this time.
> As soon as it starts trying to cough then youve got far enough.
>
> Also. check your fuel solenoid!. If that isnt clicking and getting 12V
> then it wont do anything!

eek!
put a lift pump on mine at work bled it and it started easily
i dont usually give it more than 10 seconds and it usually starts second
turn of the key even covered in snow

 

T

Tom Woods

Guest

• Sep 6, 2004

• #11

On Sun, 5 Sep 2004 23:08:49 +0100, "Jon" <[email protected]> wrote:

>eek!
>put a lift pump on mine at work bled it and it started easily
>i dont usually give it more than 10 seconds and it usually starts second
>turn of the key even covered in snow

Once ive got past the initial bleeding after messing with the fuel
system it starts straight away after the glow plugs!
Just seesms to take ages to bleed it!

 

A

Austin Shackles

Guest

• Sep 6, 2004

• #12

On or around Mon, 06 Sep 2004 09:01:52 +1200, EMB <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>Austin Shackles wrote:
>
>> it's dependant on ambient temperature, as well, or was on the burper. in
>> cold weather, it definitley needed 90 seconds in the morning. in hot
>> weather 60 was enough. Mind, they may have been series glow plugs, not
>> parallel ones.
>
>I just rang Lawrence and got him to fire the old girl up. Ambient about
>4 degrees and about 20 seconds glow (with parallel plugs) and it burst
>into life happily enough.

must be a good'un. it also varies from engine to engine. The TDis don't,
if in good condition, require any preheat. Most of the lorries will fire
from cold without heat as well, some take a lot of cranking. my experiences
in the scrap yard with various old wagons were as follows:

Ford 360 - fired on about the second turn of the crank, regardless
Bedford 330 - needed about 30 seconds of cranking.
Perkins 6354 - would rarely start from cold without easy-start
Perkins V8 - generally required excess fuel.
Rolls 220 - fired quite quickly.
another 6354 which fired straight up after standing for 6 months
Gardner 5-cylinder in a crane, fired on about the second turn and ran at
idle, didn't even have the throttle connected.
Fordson Major 4-cylinder - mostly needed excess fuel

but the prize went to an old leyland crane, probably a 670 engine. This had
stood idle for about 3 years, and for some reason we suddenly needed it.
Put a battery on it, turned the key, nothing happened. Ken (for it was he)
crawled underneath with a big hammer, and while I turned the key, hammered
on the starter. With this encouragement the starter decided to work, and it
turned over and fired on the third compression, which I thought was pretty
good.

I've also seen an old excavator which required about 90 seconds (my
estimate) of cranking to fire up.

 

E

EMB

Guest

• Sep 6, 2004

• #13

Austin Shackles wrote:


> must be a good'un. it also varies from engine to engine. The TDis don't,
> if in good condition, require any preheat. Most of the lorries will fire
> from cold without heat as well, some take a lot of cranking.

Direct injection motors may have a manifold heater, and that's generally
not much use anyway unless it's *way* sub zero. The other factor that
everyone forgets is cranking speed - even a good diesel won't want to
start if it's not being turned over fast enough, and it's surprising how
little drop in cranking speed is needed to make starting really
difficult. My motorhome was starting ok (3 seconds cranking on a direct
injection Toyota diesel) until the starter finally gave up. With a
rebuilt starter it's into life as you hit the key - no other changes,
just a starter that's working the way it should.

--
EMB

 

D

David G. Bell

Guest

• Sep 6, 2004

• #14

On Monday, in article
<[email protected]>
[email protected] "Austin Shackles" wrote:

> On or around Mon, 06 Sep 2004 09:01:52 +1200, EMB <[email protected]>
> enlightened us thusly:
>
> >Austin Shackles wrote:
> >
> >> it's dependant on ambient temperature, as well, or was on the burper. in
> >> cold weather, it definitley needed 90 seconds in the morning. in hot
> >> weather 60 was enough. Mind, they may have been series glow plugs, not
> >> parallel ones.
> >
> >I just rang Lawrence and got him to fire the old girl up. Ambient about
> >4 degrees and about 20 seconds glow (with parallel plugs) and it burst
> >into life happily enough.
>
> must be a good'un. it also varies from engine to engine. The TDis don't,
> if in good condition, require any preheat. Most of the lorries will fire
> from cold without heat as well, some take a lot of cranking. my experiences
> in the scrap yard with various old wagons were as follows:
>
> Ford 360 - fired on about the second turn of the crank, regardless
> Bedford 330 - needed about 30 seconds of cranking.
> Perkins 6354 - would rarely start from cold without easy-start
> Perkins V8 - generally required excess fuel.
> Rolls 220 - fired quite quickly.
> another 6354 which fired straight up after standing for 6 months
> Gardner 5-cylinder in a crane, fired on about the second turn and ran at
> idle, didn't even have the throttle connected.
> Fordson Major 4-cylinder - mostly needed excess fuel
>
> but the prize went to an old leyland crane, probably a 670 engine. This had
> stood idle for about 3 years, and for some reason we suddenly needed it.
> Put a battery on it, turned the key, nothing happened. Ken (for it was he)
> crawled underneath with a big hammer, and while I turned the key, hammered
> on the starter. With this encouragement the starter decided to work, and it
> turned over and fired on the third compression, which I thought was pretty
> good.
>
> I've also seen an old excavator which required about 90 seconds (my
> estimate) of cranking to fire up.

My father is of the firm belief that easy-start stops an engine ever
starting easily, though he may have cause and effect reversed. And
quite a few diesels I've seen have a provision for ether-assist in cold
weather. Like sub-zero Fahrenheit. Most of the tractors I've used had
some sort of excess-fuel button on the pump, and needed it on the first
start of the day.

--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.

"History shows that the Singularity started when Sir Tim Berners-Lee
was bitten by a radioactive spider."

 

T

terry

Guest

• Sep 6, 2004

• #15

terry wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Just finished rebuilding after replacing the hotspots in my landy
> cylinder head. Damn thing won't start!
>
> I have bled the fuel filter using the lift pump, and found one bleed
> screw on the diesel pump, again bled with lift pump.
>
> I have diesel to the injectors, and glow plugs are working. She don't
> go, doesn't even try...
>
> How long *should* the glow plugs need?
>
> Is there only one bleed screw on the pump?
>
> Any other suggestions?
>
> Thanks gang, Terry
Thanks for all your input, guys

Eventually got her back to life yesterday, and from the fact that she
started first go this morning after ~20 seconds of glow, I reckon it was
just air in the fuel system.

As a side note, the old girl sounds much better, has a tad more power,
and doesn't smoke under load like she did before the hotspot failed.
Makes me think that perhaps the broken one was broken before the loud
tapping started, perhaps? I replaced all the hotspots, and if anyone
else has these to do I would care to offer the following observations;

The remaining three 'good' hotspots in the head could all be removed
with just the little figer hooked into the outlet. Various people I
spoke to regarding parts, reckon this is normal. The new ones however do
not fit so slackly. I ended up warming the head slightly, and putting
the hotspots in the freezer for half an hour prior to fitting. They then
tapped easilly into place using a suitable small soft drift. They took
very little force. I am happy they are a tight fit, unlike the old ones!

Thanks again, Terry

Series IIa - Running like a sewing machine...