1998 v8 Petrol & LPG 3.5Carbarettor,110 Defender Starting issue

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markdfoster

markdfoster

Member
Posts
10
Location
Kirtlington Oxfordshire
Hi

My V8 Defender stalled at the top of a motorway ramp, I had driven 600 miles with no issue. When I tried to restart it I got the one click ,tiny attempt to turn and then all stop. I looked behind, all clear, put the gear into reverse and coated, restarted and got to somewhere safe. Tried a few starts same thing click,, from Relay and solenoid,, attempt to turn the engine, then nothing. Spent the night ( I have a roof tent) and thought I bet i've bu***d the battery as I have a lithium AUX and a roof box that was covering the solar panels. I thought i'll keep the Li Aux battery charged and put the two battery 3 way switch to join the li and the Starter to keep it charged (not ideal I know). So I thought maybe I have damaged the starter battery, so I got a taxi to Bitlema (a brilliant Swedish shop covering automotive, building camping etc bought a new battery felling sure this was the issue. No did exactly the same. So as I had my youngest son (28 so not that young) with me i invoked my international rescue insurance and long story short have it back on my drive. so, so far I have:-

1.put on the new battery in Denmark.
2 at home I put on a new starter motor, same result.
3 connected the new starter to a separate battery and it spun ok but did not engage but the solenoid was not activated. did the the same to the old starter, all ok (slap my head).
4 used jump leads to connect power to the new starter to a separate battery, spins ok and solenoid activates with ignition on but same result,, click spin then nothing on further tries.
5 I thought it may be the starter relay, I took it out and tested it with a meter and a battery and looks ok.
6 I checked the cable from the starter relay to the starter and there has been a new (now old) cable attached to the red white coming from the Starter relay in the fuse box, Replaced with similar gauge to the red white wire. Still the same issue.
7 I checked the earth cables and they look fine from battery to T piece on chassis to connection to gearbox. I put in an earth from the battery negative direct to one of the bolts on the the starter where it is connected to the block/gearbox. better but much tge same, three times it clicked and tried but from then on nothing.
8 Last thing I replaced the starter relay (last on the right below the fuses I think.

Now I am clutching at straws and thinking I need to check the ignition key block?

Any suggestions welcome

Fed up of working with my back in the rough stones drive.
 
Not familiar with later models V8 but do you have an amplifier module for the distributor. The older 3.5 su carbs V8 had, when that failed on mine once it failed to fire. Are you running on LPG when cut out. If so look for a black squarish with a plug attached to the distributor. I would check the lpg tank solenoid is working
 
Given that both your starters run and batts are good I would be looking at the battery terminals/connections
Try a jump leads from batt earth to starter earth or engine block and from batt positive to starter connection.
Provide 12v input to starter solenoid [ just a wire from solenoid you can touch on the batt to activate. Take care all cables are routed away from moving parts ect.
 
miktdish said:
Does the engine actually turn over at all, can you do it manually ?
Click to expand...
Hi miktdish, The engine turned over when I connected a seperate battery directly to the starter, red jump lead on the +ve on the starter terminal and a -ve jump lead to the starter body, ignition on and then the red jump lead onto the battery and the engine turned over a few times and i disconnected. I then tried again and got the solenoid click ,begining of a crank and then no more. The landy has not run since it broke down in Denmark at the end of June, so i'll get my son to give a tow to start it and run it for a bit. Then i'll try again while it is warm..
 
tottot said:
Given that both your starters run and batts are good I would be looking at the battery terminals/connections
Try a jump leads from batt earth to starter earth or engine block and from batt positive to starter connection.
Provide 12v input to starter solenoid [ just a wire from solenoid you can touch on the batt to activate. Take care all cables are routed away from moving parts ect.
Click to expand...
Hi tottot, Battery is new and terminals and connectors are clean, I have tried the direct connection with jump leads from the freshly recharged battery with jump leads and crossed my fingers but was the same. I looked at the solenoid input from the starter relay and the wire looked a bit thin and a bit old, I traced it up towards the relay in the fuse fuse box (the yellow one, last on the right looking into the fuse box) and found the thicker red white wire that the thinner wire was connected to, I replaced that bit of wire with a similar gauge wire. no change so i tested the relay, it does operate and there is continuity across the switch, no change (I replaced the relay with a new one anyway but still the same). i'm going to try as you suggest a direct wire from the battery terminal to the terminal on the starter.
 
saxavordian said:
Not familiar with later models V8 but do you have an amplifier module for the distributor. The older 3.5 su carbs V8 had, when that failed on mine once it failed to fire. Are you running on LPG when cut out. If so look for a black squarish with a plug attached to the distributor. I would check the lpg tank solenoid is working
Click to expand...
Hi Saxavordian. I do have an amp on distributor, I had just run out of LPG and was running on petrol. At the moment i Am not getting any cranking so issue is before the car gets a chance to fire up. As I said to miktdish above it has not run since I brokedown at the end of June in Denmark.Now it is on my drive so i'll get my son to give a tow and bump it to make fuel is in the carbs for when can get it cranking and that it is running ok.
 
markdfoster said:
Hi

My V8 Defender stalled at the top of a motorway ramp, I had driven 600 miles with no issue. When I tried to restart it I got the one click ,tiny attempt to turn and then all stop. I looked behind, all clear, put the gear into reverse and coated, restarted and got to somewhere safe. Tried a few starts same thing click,, from Relay and solenoid,, attempt to turn the engine, then nothing. Spent the night ( I have a roof tent) and thought I bet i've bu***d the battery as I have a lithium AUX and a roof box that was covering the solar panels. I thought i'll keep the Li Aux battery charged and put the two battery 3 way switch to join the li and the Starter to keep it charged (not ideal I know). So I thought maybe I have damaged the starter battery, so I got a taxi to Bitlema (a brilliant Swedish shop covering automotive, building camping etc bought a new battery felling sure this was the issue. No did exactly the same. So as I had my youngest son (28 so not that young) with me i invoked my international rescue insurance and long story short have it back on my drive. so, so far I have:-

1.put on the new battery in Denmark.
2 at home I put on a new starter motor, same result.
3 connected the new starter to a separate battery and it spun ok but did not engage but the solenoid was not activated. did the the same to the old starter, all ok (slap my head).
4 used jump leads to connect power to the new starter to a separate battery, spins ok and solenoid activates with ignition on but same result,, click spin then nothing on further tries.
5 I thought it may be the starter relay, I took it out and tested it with a meter and a battery and looks ok.
6 I checked the cable from the starter relay to the starter and there has been a new (now old) cable attached to the red white coming from the Starter relay in the fuse box, Replaced with similar gauge to the red white wire. Still the same issue.
7 I checked the earth cables and they look fine from battery to T piece on chassis to connection to gearbox. I put in an earth from the battery negative direct to one of the bolts on the the starter where it is connected to the block/gearbox. better but much tge same, three times it clicked and tried but from then on nothing.
8 Last thing I replaced the starter relay (last on the right below the fuses I think.

Now I am clutching at straws and thinking I need to check the ignition key block?

Any suggestions welcome

Fed up of working with my back in the rough stones drive.
Click to expand...
Hi all thanks for your replies, the thing i'm pondering on now is, I turn the key to start when the car has rested, the solenoid and relays activate, the crank begins but not a full turn. I try again and the starting dashboard lights come on, the strter relay activates, the soleniod does not and a crank begins but just for a second. I release the key and no dashboard lights are on, i may need to check if the ignition key is all working properly.

I'm going to try as tottot suggested, a direct wire from the battery terminal to the terminal on the starter. I have replaced the starter relay and the lower half of the starter relay to solenoid cable so it would be good to eliminate the bit of cable in the loom that I have not tested.
 
Dodgey main contacts in the solenoid?

As it will spin over directly at the starter but not through the solenoid. Just a thought.

J
 
marjon said:
Dodgey main contacts in the solenoid?

As it will spin over directly at the starter but not through the solenoid. Just a thought.

J
Click to expand...
Hi marjon, it is a brand new starter and solenoid, it is a powerlite one. It is behaving as the old one did when I broke down but on later testing on the bench the old one was ok. So I think that the solenoid should be ok they are UK made. It will be interesting to see how it works when I test it with a direct wire from the battery to activate the solenoid. Thanks.
 
IT only takes about 5amps to activate the starter solenoid. When mine stopped working it was due to an iffy wire in the loom, With such a low amp needed I just ran a new exciter wire direct to starter solenoid by passing the relay as well direct from ignition switch.
While this is not your issue I think it may be similar problem with main battery cable. Good luck.
 
Does it make a difference if when it wont turn over to use a socket wrench to advance the engine just 1 turn or over the next compression position then give it another go.
I once had prob with hydraulic locking on one cylinder when not started up for a time which did the cables in when under load,
Good luck,
 
Last edited:
I tested with a direct wire from the battery to activate the solenoid as per tottot's suggestion and starter is happily cranking the engine, Then I took off the Starter relay and put 12v from the battery onto the relay starter wire going to the solenoid. Again cranked the engine fine. I put there relay back in place (it is a new one) and no cranking or solenoid. So I am not feeding 12v down to the solenoid activation terminal, or enough voltae. I'll check if I am getting the 12v from the ignition key when I turn it.

Thanks tottot some prgress made me feel happy, thanks also rynner, I think the successfully cranking test is ok for the moment, i have not actually fully started and will see how that goes when I can properly crank without a direct 12v feed to the solenoid.
 
Today I took the starter relay out and checked the top relay slot for 12v. its ok, I manually connected the top pin to the bottom pin and the car cranks, I put the relay back in, noo good Its a new relay, I tested it the switch operates and there is coninuity over it. S o I thought I would use the manual cranking to at least get the landy running This is when I noticedd that what is happening at the ignition key does not seem right.

Position I nothing
Position ll battery,oil and choke lights, but I am pushing against the spring
Position lll all lights go out and nothing.

So i fiddled about with the key, steering lock poistions and managed to get the oil,battery light and choke light on, cranked manually with the relay out and a spade ended cable connecting solenoid activation to 12v. Landy started ok. I guess my problem is with the ignition swich. i'll get a new switch, actually i'll take old off fist and see what it is doing. does this make sense?
 
kermit_rr said:
A volt meter is still an important tool in the toolbox! So is logic. Even so it's easy to overlook things
Click to expand...
Hi Kermit, yes definitely, I guess that the switch must have been beginning to behave wrongly the day I broke down but I ran strait down the more obvious rabbit holes. Well at least I have a spare starter and a spare battery to carry as spares next time I drive to Sweden, if I had noticed the switch that would have been an on the road fix, just a short wait maybe for the part. I have a roof tent and Odense in Denmark where I broke down was a very nice place. I was in a rush and had only 4 days to get to Stockholm for my son's wedding. All went well :)
 
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