Defender 200Tdi 90 1993 - 20yr old fuel in tank

[julianf]

With electrical stuff you can either replace a whole load of stuff in a random fashion, or just get a multimeter and a wiring diagram and follow the 12 volts until there's no longer 12 volts...

Now my experience is from the 300, but the 200 will be similar, and, this is also from memory, so I'll probably miss or add some bits, but, basically -

Battery to big maxi fuses
...to (probably) little fuses, to ignition switch
...to (probably) more little fuses, to relays
...to big things like the starter solenoid.

So you probe the battery to earth, and make sure it's 12.somthing volts.
Then you probe the maxis (if you have them)
Then the next thing...
And the next...

Until you find where you no longer have the volts.

There's so much going on that you're looking for a needle in a haystack without a method. You might get lucky, but, more likely you won't.


My 300 was parked up for 7 years. All the blade fuses (your 200 will have the cylinder ones) needed pulling and scraping. Various earth's had failed. No end of connectors on the lights etc had corroded.

Even post MOT it kept going bad until, I guess, a bit of vibration cleaned up the joints a bit more. One time I'd just pulled over in a layby to check on somthing else that was the next point of concern and it wouldn't start again. Nothing.

I swapped over all the yellow relays, and was on my way again. None had broken but they had just lost connectivity.

As a side note, the switch on the end of the ignition barrel, not only can you replace the switch itself without the barrel, if you're careful, you can open up the switch and clean up the insides. And then spend an age working out how it goes back together again... : /

But, yes, multimeter and method, else it's just random spending. Print out a good (colour) copy of the wiring diagrams. There's nice ones for the 300. I'd assume there will be for the 200 also.

 

[Disco1BFG]

IME, you'd be better fixing one problem at a time - there are enough variables in doing so - If you replace a whole load of stuff by firing the parts cannon at it, you'll introduce more variables into a system which is going to have a few gremlins waiting to bite you on the arse.. so .. don't !

In terms of voltage testing, it can next to a waste of time - the crustiest connection known to man will conduct a voltage, but will NOT allow current flow..

Last time I will say this:- get RAVE !!

Load test the starter circuit, and revert.. stop worrying about anything else till you know that works..

There's a guy on YT -"South Main Auto" - he has some stunning auto electrical fault diagnosis vids up - worth every second of you time to watch just about all of them - even the ones relating to J**ps

 

[Captainflint1967]

IME, you'd be better fixing one problem at a time - there are enough variables in doing so - If you replace a whole load of stuff by firing the parts cannon at it, you'll introduce more variables into a system which is going to have a few gremlins waiting to bite you on the arse.. so .. don't !

In terms of voltage testing, it can next to a waste of time - the crustiest connection known to man will conduct a voltage, but will NOT allow current flow..

Last time I will say this:- get RAVE !!

Load test the starter circuit, and revert.. stop worrying about anything else till you know that works..

There's a guy on YT -"South Main Auto" - he has some stunning auto electrical fault diagnosis vids up - worth every second of you time to watch just about all of them - even the ones relating to J**ps

Thank you for your time and information, I’ll get a RAVE - just looking now… guess it’s contact cleaner and probes for a few days to come. I’ll look at the YouTube videos too , many thanks again

 

[Captainflint1967]

With electrical stuff you can either replace a whole load of stuff in a random fashion, or just get a multimeter and a wiring diagram and follow the 12 volts until there's no longer 12 volts...

Now my experience is from the 300, but the 200 will be similar, and, this is also from memory, so I'll probably miss or add some bits, but, basically -

Battery to big maxi fuses
...to (probably) little fuses, to ignition switch
...to (probably) more little fuses, to relays
...to big things like the starter solenoid.

So you probe the battery to earth, and make sure it's 12.somthing volts.
Then you probe the maxis (if you have them)
Then the next thing...
And the next...

Until you find where you no longer have the volts.

There's so much going on that you're looking for a needle in a haystack without a method. You might get lucky, but, more likely you won't.


My 300 was parked up for 7 years. All the blade fuses (your 200 will have the cylinder ones) needed pulling and scraping. Various earth's had failed. No end of connectors on the lights etc had corroded.

Even post MOT it kept going bad until, I guess, a bit of vibration cleaned up the joints a bit more. One time I'd just pulled over in a layby to check on somthing else that was the next point of concern and it wouldn't start again. Nothing.

I swapped over all the yellow relays, and was on my way again. None had broken but they had just lost connectivity.

As a side note, the switch on the end of the ignition barrel, not only can you replace the switch itself without the barrel, if you're careful, you can open up the switch and clean up the insides. And then spend an age working out how it goes back together again... : /

But, yes, multimeter and method, else it's just random spending. Print out a good (colour) copy of the wiring diagrams. There's nice ones for the 300. I'd assume there will be for the 200 also.

Many thanks for the information, I’ll track down some sort of circuit diagram, although I have purchased the (condensed) workshop manual for the vehicle , maybe start reading through ‘Landrover speak’ to see if I can locate the issues from there ? many thanks for your time and information

 

[Captainflint1967]

I replaced the whole lot with new key, but you can just replace the end part with the connectors (couldn't tell you how though, might just pull off maybe)
View attachment 270654
Have to take off plastic cowl by undoing the screws on bottom half (think there's 3 in total, look underneath just behind steering wheel).
You should now be able to see the ignition switch, it's held on by a clamp that wraps round the steering column using shear bolts so you won't be able to undo it using a socket/spanner, can drill them out or do what I did and use a grinder. It's made out of aluminium so a hacksaw blade would do if access is tight. I used normal bolts when I replaced mine incase I needed to take it back off, think they are 8mm thread.
The starter relay is probably behind the fuse panel in front of the gearstick. Remove the black panel and undo the 2 nuts or bolts that hold the fuse carrier on and it should be one of the relays on the back. Not sure what colour yours would be (likely yellow) mine was an electroplated metal housed one (1988 year).
As for starter motor if you need it, get oem, stay away from britpart. I mistakingly purchased a britpart ignition switch, although it worked you had to hold the key in the right place to start it.

Thanks for the information and guidance. If I need to get a new starter motor I’ll get the OEM part, you’ve reaffirmed the comments about Britpart products I’ve heard. One my multimeter and voltage tester (with long cables) arrive I’ll be testing all the circuits I can… think I’ll replace all the fuses / relays and try to clean their locations with contact cleaner… the yellow relays aren’t made anymore (at leat I can’t find any) so I’ll be looking to see what will suffice as a replacement…all good fun owning a 30 year old Landrover eh

 

[Disco1BFG]

Thank you for your time and information, I’ll get a RAVE - just looking now… guess it’s contact cleaner and probes for a few days to come. I’ll look at the YouTube videos too , many thanks again

HTH. RAVE is a ,pdf dowload and covers all LR stuff between 200tdi ( 94 ? )and the end of the P38... your precise vehicle might not be fully covered, but the engine gearbox, running gear and most of the wiring will be...

I’ll track down some sort of circuit diagram

They're in RAVE ..

contact cleaner and probes

I use CAIG DeOxit 5% ( on the bay ). T-pins for knitting make fine probes
CAIG D5S DeoxIT
CAIG D5S DeoxIT
CAIG D5S DeoxIT

 

[steve24v]

I wouldn't buy anything yet, do some quick tests with the test wires you have made, you can narrow the problem down like this without removing dashboard panels, for example, test the main positive feed from battery to starter motor, if the light doesn't light up on your test wire then there's a bad connection on that

 

[Captainflint1967]

Regarding the RAVE downloads, the ISO files don’t work (if they download at all) and the PDF files only cover the 300Tdi.
Does anyone have a link for the Defender 200Tdi (not the Disco 200Tdi) engine in a 90 ?
Thank you

 

[Disco1BFG]

Disco 200Tdi is basically the same engine, bar the position of the blower..

I have paper copies .. I know - about as much use as a chocolate tea pot ..

 

[Captainflint1967]

HTH. RAVE is a ,pdf dowload and covers all LR stuff between 200tdi ( 94 ? )and the end of the P38... your precise vehicle might not be fully covered, but the engine gearbox, running gear and most of the wiring will be...



They're in RAVE ..



I use CAIG DeOxit 5% ( on the bay ). T-pins for knitting make fine probes
CAIG D5S DeoxIT
CAIG D5S DeoxIT
CAIG D5S DeoxIT

Hi
I’ve ordered the CAIG D5S DeoxIT from eBay.
Had partial success with the RAVE - found one for my Disco 2 which was useful , and a PDF of a1993 90 workshop manual. Though hard to read as it’s a photocopy.
The wires to the starter motor all seem to be in place - feeling blind by hand. But trying to get a contact to them is nigh on impossible- some sort of covering on them. As a result I’m trying to remove the down pipe. Got the top bolt out and the two connecting bracket bolts ( from underneath on the exhaust) , but there are two bolts into the engine block holding a bracket halfway down the pipe - trying to remove these , which is the held on with Allen bolts… trying my hardest to get at them and the down pipe is rusted / stuck at both ends. Is it safe to use a soft mallet to ‘persuade’ it to come loose … then I’ll be able to get at the contact wires on the starter motor itself. The ‘powered’ (you can connect it to the positive and negative terminals ) circuit tester has arrived from Amazon … hoping to get the down pipe off to get at the wires on the starter motor …

 

[Disco1BFG]

Is it safe to use a soft mallet to ‘persuade’ it to come loose …

Put a picture up..

Almost certain it can take some pain.. it's a LR !

GT-85 is a good penetrant spray, as is a 50/50 mix of Brake cleaner and Acetone

 

[steve24v]

Them bolts are a pain to get to, think we only put one bolt back in when I done my brothers 200tdi, also changed it to a hex head bolt to make life easier. Once these are out you should be able to just wiggle it about to get it off, if not than hammer time.

 

[Captainflint1967]

So…
Before everything I checked the voltage on the new battery and it read 12.7 volts .
Then I Managed to get the down pipe off (removed the offending bolts) felt around for the cables attached to the starter motor and all was correct. I removed the solenoid wire and connected a multimeter to it ( one end into the wire and grounded onto the vehicle ) I connected up the battery and keys in the ignition and turned the key . At the point where the starter motor should kick in on the ignition I got a reading of 11.7volts. I then used another device (which connects to the car battery ) to provide 12 volts to the solenoid wire attachment ( i unclipped the wire from the solenoid/ starter motor connection) but unfortunately nothing happened.
So from this I can gather that the ignition is sending 11.7volts to the starter solenoid - so the ignition is working correctly (I think) all the other light come on , glow plugs lights etc
BUT applying 12volts to the solenoid / starter does nothing - indicating a faulty solenoid at least…. Is there any way I can try to get the starter motor to start without the solenoid ? This electrical testing thing I bought off Amazon will send 12 volts but at a max of 8amps - maybe not enough ?
Here are a few photographs of todays proceedings :

Any help or guidance would be greatly appreciated. I guess I’m looking at a new starter motor ?
many thanks

 

[Captainflint1967]

Some more photographs :

Any guidance much appreciated, thanks.

 

[steve24v]

Did you run a separate wire directly from positive terminal of battery to that little spade connection where the white wire goes onto?

 

[julianf]

Im not saying its right at all, or even advising it, but id be under there with some standard jump leads.

If i was feeling smart, id probably connect to the engine side and then (second connection) to the battery, so as there was no danger of sparks in my eyes, or the vehicle being in gear and driving over me etc.

Again, not telling you what to do, just saying what i would probably do...

 

[Captainflint1967]

Did you run a separate wire directly from positive terminal of battery to that little spade connection where the white wire goes onto?

Not as such, the device I purchased from Amazon can deliver 12v and I used that on the spade of the solenoid, so it got 12v . And the ignition wire was sending down 11.7v , so I don’t think it made any difference.

 

[Captainflint1967]

Im not saying its right at all, or even advising it, but id be under there with some standard jump leads.

If i was feeling smart, id probably connect to the engine side and then (second connection) to the battery, so as there was no danger of sparks in my eyes, or the vehicle being in gear and driving over me etc.

Again, not telling you what to do, just saying what i would probably do...

What would you be connecting to ? The solenoid side or the starter side ? I already tried the solenoid side with 12v but it didn’t budge…. It’s extremely tight space where the solenoid tab is located, you’d be touching the engine block for sure .

 

[tottot]

What I would do is pull back that red cap on the main power cable and then use an old open end spanner of suitable size to jump from there to the little spade,[ there will be sparks ] there will be plenty amps for the solenoid then. The solenoid only need about 5ams to activate but starter itself need hundreds. If this results in nothing then likely solenoid is duff/stuck [ it should at least click ]

 

[Captainflint1967]

What I would do is pull back that red cap on the main power cable and then use an old open end spanner of suitable size to jump from there to the little spade,[ there will be sparks ] there will be plenty amps for the solenoid then. The solenoid only need about 5ams to activate but starter itself need hundreds. If this results in nothing then likely solenoid is duff/stuck [ it should at least click ]

There was no click when I tried the solenoid with the 12v 8amp (Amazon car eclectic tester/ 12v supply).
Should I disconnect the battery before placing the spanner to short , then reconnect the battery ? Or do you mean connect the battery to the spanner - temporary wise ?