Series 3 2.25 diesel glow plug upgraded help.

[Ric82]

Hi All

I'm new to the forum and have just bought my frist Landover.

I have a bit of a question I have just had the injection pump rebuilt and the injectors. While that was happening I have upgraded the glow plugs to the parellal Brit part ones (DA1057)

Now the vechile won't start unless I spray abit of brake cleaner down the intake.

Could someone confirm if these are wired to the ballest resistor like the old series ones or to 12v as the instructions imply they go to the ballest resistor but I read online alot are 12v.

Any help would be great.


Many thanks
Richard

 

[steve2286w]

Hi Richard
Welcome to Landyzone
Sounds like your new plugs not getting full volts
the parallel ones all need 12v , so the ballast resistor can be bypassed , to enable the glow plug light to work change the bulb to a 12v one (it’s 6v as standard) , the two thin wires go to either side of bulb so one goes to the fat +ve 12v wire when in glow plug mode and the other to earth
You can add a relay too
Have a search on here for more info

 

[Ric82]

Hi Richard
Welcome to Landyzone
Sounds like your new plugs not getting full volts
the parallel ones all need 12v , so the ballast resistor can be bypassed , to enable the glow plug light to work change the bulb to a 12v one (it’s 6v as standard) , the two thin wires go to either side of bulb so one goes to the fat +ve 12v wire when in glow plug mode and the other to earth
You can add a relay too
Have a search on here for more infoView attachment 260003

Thanks Steve that helps to confirm my thinking. I have attached the diagram that came with them so you can see what I was talking about.

I will switch the wires over and see if that makes a difference.

Many thanks

 

[Webley1991]

The instructions on the diagram say "retain ballast resistor" which makes it seem like it still needs to be in the circuit.

I left mine in place on the bulkhead, but simply attached the ignition live wire to the same terminal as the wire that feeds the plugs.

I attached one ring terminal for the bulb to the screw holding the resistor to the bulkhead as an earth. The other bulb ring terminal is connected to the same screw as the live and plug feed wires. As I rebuilt the vehicle a few years back, it had clean stainless screws holding it on. If it has been on there a while, the screws may be rusty, so this may not work as well. Anywhere you can get the bulb terminal to contact clean metal on the bodywork should work.

If the instrument panel is fitted with a standard bulb holder, you will need to find a 12v mini screw-in bulb like this one to replace the standard 6v glow plug indicator bulb.

https://www.lamps2udirect.com/minia...MIibXNnqmj9gIVh7TtCh2p0ggKEAQYAiABEgL6S_D_BwE

 

[steve2286w]

http://www.retroanaconda.com/landrover/2010/03/series-iii-workshop-manual/

The wiring diagrams show the original colours which should help, and Wembley has described it better than me, i wired same before I fitted the relay

 

[Ric82]

Hi all

So I have took your advice and wired the glow plugs to the same side as the main wires on the ballest resistor (left) so it's direct 12v, I have also earthed the bulb.

So first of all I measured all glow plugs which measured 0 resistance, then I connected a multi meter to the positive and earth on the engine and turned on the glow plugs 10.7v but that increased over time to 11.6v and it still won't start.


Can I ask a question as me and my Dad is having a debate about the fuel injection pump,. When I removed it I did not remove the little dog that goes In to the pump.

Do I still need to retime the pump when reinstalling? Even though the spline gear has not been removed.

Its an exchanged pump that was rebuilt by a local diesel specialist.

Many thanks
Richard

 

[steve2286w]

Have you checked the stop lever is in RUN position
Have you primed the pump after fitting using lift pump lever
Need to give 15-20 secs on cold days on glow plugs, the voltage will drop a bit when they’re on
Going back to 1st post , once you get it started on brake cleaner does it run ok till warmed up
And then will it start without glow plugs as they’re not needed when warm
Best to time it, have a look in the workshop manual for the procedure

 

[Ric82]

Have you checked the stop lever is in RUN position
Have you primed the pump after fitting using lift pump lever
Need to give 15-20 secs on cold days on glow plugs, the voltage will drop a bit when they’re on
Going back to 1st post , once you get it started on brake cleaner does it run ok till warmed up
And then will it start without glow plugs as they’re not needed when warm
Best to time it, have a look in the workshop manual for the procedure

Hi Steve

When I crank and someone spray brake cleaner in the intake it will run no issues other then smoking abit. I had it running at the weekend for 20 mins after stopping it and leaving it 10 minutes it seemed to crank abit and throttle needed pumping a bit and it restarted but once started ran okay and revs through the range but smokes especially on hard acceleration.

Thanks
Richard

 

[steve2286w]

They do smoke a bit, I used to keep pedal fully down to get most air in and keep cranking till it fully starts ( now have a 200di in mine) the series diesel does take a lot of cranking when cold , it’s worth checking timing as just a bit out can be a problem , there is also backlash in timing belt to contend with too and pump adjustments might be trial and error

 

[Ric82]

They do smoke a bit, I used to keep pedal fully down to get most air in and keep cranking till it fully starts ( now have a 200di in mine) the series diesel does take a lot of cranking when


cold , it’s worth checking timing as just a bit out can be a problem , there is also backlash in timing belt to contend with too and pump adjustments might be trial and errorView attachment 260198

Thanks Steve I will take all the advise and give it a full check over at the weekend it's doing my swed at the moment but I'm sure it will get there in the end.

Here is a video of the smoking I was talking about before the injection pump rebuild. https://youtube.com/shorts/KvYno0_3O70?feature=share

Thanks Richard

 

[WoodyO]

You won't get any extra air in the cylinders by holding down a throttle connected to the fuel pump.

 

[steve2286w]

It’s also connected to the butterfly valve in the inlet manifold and with foot off pedal the valve is shut creating a vacuum and only air getting to cylinders is via the small hole in middle of butterfly valve, if you get no air in there will be minimal compression

 

[Bobsticle]

Looks a bit white that smoke. Unburnt fuel makes white smoke. Do your eyes water when it’s running. Unburnt fuel often means the pump needs advancing. That would make it difficult to start.
Working plugs are easily checked. Just take one out and see if it glows red hot when it should.

 

[Ric82]

You won't get any extra air in the cylinders by holding down a throttle connected to the fuel pump.

It’s also connected to the butterfly valve in the inlet manifold and with foot off pedal the valve is shut creating a vacuum and only air getting to cylinders is via the small hole in middle of butterfly valve, if you get no air in there will be minimal compression

Ok so I have check the glow plugs and they are working. I have connected two batteries together and tried starting it just winds and winds like there is no diesel so cracked injector pipes at the injectors and there is diesel.

Started cranking again and still no start. My dad sprayed some brake cleaner in and it stuck straight up and run no issues other then the original smoking issue.

After 30 minutes stopped the truck left it 10 and then went to start again it just wound and wound and then started abit lumpy and then ran okay again other then the smoke.


Next steps is
check compression
Check timing

Quick question is it possible if previous owner had the timing 180 out and it would still run but struggle to start and smoke alot?


Any further advise would be great or is someone lives in the Boston area and fancies having a look I would be greatful.


Many thanks
Richard

 

[steve2286w]

Not sure about the 180 out but air getting drawn in the inlet side can cause problematic starting
Although this is in my 200di you can rig a clear pipe to see if any bubbles getting Pulled in

 

[Ric82]

Not sure about the 180 out but air getting drawn in the inlet side can cause problematic starting
Although this is in my 200di you can rig a clear pipe to see if any bubbles getting Pulled in
View attachment 260454

Thanks Steve I checked this morning after standing all night and there seems to be no air bleeding out the fuel system but still won't bloody start. In think this can't be that difficult I must be missing something obvious.

Thanks
Richard

 

[kermit_rr]

I don't know much about diseasel but I'd check the timing to start with

 

[Bobsticle]

The timing is a complete git on a diesel but worth searching for that sweet spot.
Unfortunately the pump adjustment is quite small so as things wear like the timing chain, you can end up chasing issues right through the ruddy engine.

 

[Ric82]

The timing is a complete git on a diesel but worth searching for that sweet spot.
Unfortunately the pump adjustment is quite small so as things wear like the timing chain, you can end up chasing issues right through the ruddy engine.

Thanks Bob

So I managed to finish work on-time tonight so went out and thought I would adjust the Injection pump to fully advanced. Still won't bloody start but at least now I get a little puff of smoke out the exhaust where before I had nothing.

So what you think I just need to easy it back now or is it the timing and valves need checking?


I will say the truck started and ran except smoking alot before I had the pump and injectors redone.

Any guidance would be appreciated.

Many thanks
Richard

 

[Bobsticle]

1. Crack off the 8 high pressure pipe nuts.

2. Centre the pump on the pointer after loosening the three pump nuts.

3. Tighten the 8 nuts, tighten the pump nuts.

4. Start by any means possible.

5. Check smoke.

6. Repeat all above in 1mm increments until smoke stops, starts easily or you have a mild mental breakdown and set fire to it.



It’s a long slog but every mm has to be explored or you can miss it. With any luck it will begin getting better before you then get worse again. At least you then know how to get close.
If it won’t improve sufficiently and you know for certain the static pump timing was spot on then it’s probably down to a stretched chain.
May also be worth doing a pop test on the injectors along with a pattern check at the same time.

Just wait till you’ve spent weeks doing all this and still can’t get there. It drives you mad Been through it twice with mine. The last time after a complete engine rebuild.