2004 TD4 starting problem.

[russdelaneyuk]

I am hoping one of you TD4 ninjas can help me as almost out of ideas!!

Freelander 1 TD4, 140000 miles.
I have done a full service, changed the LP fuel pump under rear wheel arch to a new OEM one.
New fuel filter and BMW upgrade PCV breather fitted.
New glow plugs.
Checked the o-ring and washer on the Fuel regulator.
New upgrade fuel rail pressure sensor wiring loom mod.
Car runs absolutely superb once started, no issues with hesitation or acceleration.

The problem is starting, first couple of of attempts it starts and runs but just below idle and accelerator doesn't respond. Third attempt it starts after a fairly long crank and all is good.

I had a look at diagnostic and done a leak back check on the injectors, see images.
The only thing I have noticed is I don't get a glow plug light when ignition on but believe that is normal unles really cold?

Please help.

TIA

 

[Shimsteriom]

9 years and you begin with a question?

Hint

 

[russdelaneyuk]

9 years and you begin with a question?

Hint

Sorry, I thought I had introduced myself 9 years ago.. oops, old age lol

 

[kernowsvenski]

9 years and you begin with a question?

Hint

Nine years with trouble free motoring in an LR. Must be a record!

 

[Arctic2]

How long was the leak back test done for ? looking at the test i would be inclined to pull all injectors clean the tips, and cleanout the ports, add new copper washers and rubber seals. do let us know how long the test ran ?

 

[russdelaneyuk]

How long was the leak back test done for ? looking at the test i would be inclined to pull all injectors clean the tips, and cleanout the ports, add new copper washers and rubber seals. do let us know how long the test ran ?

Hi, the test was run for a good 5 mins or so, probably longer. (Forgot to time)
They didn't look that far out, I did notice the return pipe was pouring fuel out, had to clamp it to stop.

 

[russdelaneyuk]

Later today I will test the injectors for leak back with just the ignition on.

 

[russdelaneyuk]

Further info, here is a fault code that has come up?

 

[andyfreelandy]

Take fuel pressure sensor connector out of end of fuel rail, clean all contacts, replace. Should be job done,

 

[Arctic2]

Hi, the test was run for a good 5 mins or so, probably longer. (Forgot to time)
They didn't look that far out, I did notice the return pipe was pouring fuel out, had to clamp it to stop.

Hi Russ.
When you do another leak back test with engine running, make sure you clamp the return hose this time round, only do the test for 60 seconds, then add the photo, also check the sensor plug on the fuel rail for corrosion of it's pins, spray with some contact cleaner and pop the plug on and off a few times, could you do a video of how the FL1 is starting.

You say you checked the regulator O-rings but have not changed them correct.

A friend of mine was having the same problem with his R40 Rover 75 diesel M47 poor starting, car ran fine but did have a couple of cut outs, tested the injectors all were 20ml within the 60 seconds, he had changed the fuel rail sensor, regulator O-rings, low pressure sensor on top of the fuel filter in the Rover 75, whereas the FL1 as the filter in the wheel arch and a fuel pump, which pierburg are the best.

We lifted all the injectors cleaned the tips, and replaced all the copper washers, cleaned out all the injector ports before refitting the injectors starts great again and no cut outs.

PS seems Andy got there before me with the clean fuel rail sensor

 

[russdelaneyuk]

Thanks Guys will check those things today, I fitted a new loom for the fuel rail sensor (New connector) Will check the pins on the sensor itself.

On the leak back check, is there an amount to look out for? I think it took around 60 seconds for the fuel to travel up the pipes before reaching the bottles.
Will run it with the small tubes attached instead.

Thanks for the support so far, got me stumped!

 

[russdelaneyuk]

Here was the leak back test done with the tubes, only ran for 37 seconds as tubes full.

Just uploading starting video to youtube.

 

[russdelaneyuk]

Starting Video

 

[Alteredtech]

Hello,

If the engine is hard to start there must be a fuel leak somewhere.
It coulds be injectors, hp fuel pump or a return hose.

The fault code 0191, is it because you disconnected the fuel pressure regulator ?
Sensors will prevent you to start at all, not making it difficult.

 

[russdelaneyuk]

Hello,

If the engine is hard to start there must be a fuel leak somewhere.
It coulds be injectors, hp fuel pump or a return hose.

The fault code 0191, is it because you disconnected the fuel pressure regulator ?
Sensors will prevent you to start at all, not making it difficult.

I have reset the fault code numerous times but just returns, not much info on the diagnostic. My thinking is that it is unlikely its a faulty sensor?

 

[Alteredtech]

I have reset the fault code numerous times but just returns, not much info on the diagnostic. My thinking is that it is unlikely its a faulty sensor?

Hi

You can read the sensor value with the diagnostic tool. But I don't think it's a sensor issue if it running fine once started !
I see your video, sound almost good when started ... when the engine is started on idle does the rpm are little unstable ?

Had you check for any fuel leak on the fuel line ? ( A very small leak on a fuel hose can let air in the fuel line makes the engine hard to start )
You had done injectors leak back test, we have the quantity but not time ... ( you could have all leaking too much back )
HP fuel pump could be an issue ( it can leak from one cover )

 

[russdelaneyuk]

Just as an update, I changed all the injectors for a set I bought. Used, but cleaned all the nozzles in an ultrasonic cleaner, very steady idle, on running extremely smooth once going.
Start issue still there, will start checking for leaks.
One thing I have noticed, sometimes when it starts it sits just below normal idle speed for a few seconds. You can the here something like a valve move and it picks up to normal. I cannot pinpoint the location of the sound but almost sounded like the accelerator pedal area.
Really odd!!

 

[russdelaneyuk]

Does anyone know where you can find the specs on things like injectors, amp values of the sensors, flow rates on air etc? I have the V2 icarsoft diagnostic tool but not much good without know the values they should be operating.

 

[Alteredtech]

Does anyone know where you can find the specs on things like injectors, amp values of the sensors, flow rates on air etc? I have the V2 icarsoft diagnostic tool but not much good without know the values they should be operating.

A quick search on the forum
Help with iCarsoft readings on TD4 | LandyZone - Land Rover Forum

 

[russdelaneyuk]

So, I have done some more digging. Since fitting the replacement injectors things have been better. (No smoke)
The starting issue is still there.
It starts but sits just below normal idle, for a few seconds. It then makes a slight sound around the brake pedal, you can feel it in your foot on the pedal too.
Then everything is normal.
I pressed hard on the brake pedal and started and it was much better.
I'm now thinking Vacuum around the brake booster area? possibly affecting the engines idle until the vacuum builds?