cold start white smoke....again (sorry)

[clarkkent]

Hi all,
Great site.
Having done a thorough search on this, I'm still unsure, so forgive me.
Cold start, white smoke rough idle for 10 seconds, then all ok.
I've done oil and filter,air and crankcase filter, EGR bypass.
I read that it may well be glow plug(s), wiring connection or even relay switch.
As I don't have the kit to do electrical test , I phoned LR garage for quote to test glow plugs. They stated that the glow plugs are indistructable and it's more likely injector(s).
So, my question is, are injectors likely to play up for 10 seconds when cold.
Car has done 115k
BTW, I also read that this is pretty common, but it's embarrassing as I have to start up when school kids are passing
Many thanks

 

[Arctic2]

I am also getting the same at the moment, so I do reckon it is down to the cold weather, if it is the injectors maybe leaking I and you will have to do a leak back test, but first I am going to run some injector cleaner through the car to see if that helps.

FORTE ADVANCED FORMULA DIESEL TREATMENT & DIESEL TURBO CLEANER - 400ML | eBay

The FL 1 is driving great though masses of power all through the range and no smoke after a run at all, personally I think it is a little un-burnt fuel on start up good luck and please let us know how you get on Arctic2

 

[clarkkent]

Arctic2.
Well what do you know, I was just thinking about you
I read your post on this in another thread,and I have to agree that it seems this topic has fizzled out without resolution every time.
Logic would dictate it's in the glow/electrical system.
I'm looking for someone to do meter test first,rather than pay for duff diagnostic......in other words a proper mechanic...they're like hens teeth

 

[teddywood1]

bat man, heater plugs are not indestructible they just die for the price of them put some new ones in try to have the engine warmed up first and make sure you have the right socket for them also not a multi sided socket as these can take the edge's of .hope this helps

 

[trax]

batman heater plugs? they sound awesome

 

[roccotune]

If it's a bmw engine I would be surprised it's glow plugs, more likely leaky injector. A bmw engineer once told me that the glow plugs would never be needed in our climate as the engine was high compression with high pressure injectors and I agree, my td4 will fire even if you don't let the glow plugs heat even on a cold day. How do I know well the missus didn't know you had to wait to start a diesel for the whole year she drove the FL

 

[clarkkent]

Thanks guys.
I reckon I'll get Robin to do a meter check first, he can do sensor switch and battery at the same time.
Would a leaky injector be leaking all the time or just for 10 seconds?
Funny thing, it didn't do it till it was serviced, and I'm wondering if when they changed crankcase filter they disturbed the glow plug wiring, don't you have to move it to do filter?

 

[RealBeale]

Leaky injector. Got the same problem. Check for diesel in the gully between the injectors,although you'll need to remove plastic cover, also tell-tale stain underneath the car when parked up. Pop the bonnet and smell near the cover .You'll soon know if you get a whiff of diesel. Also mines started to stink of diesel fumes when the heater is on so I'd better sort it soon.

 

[htr]

batman heater plugs? they sound awesome

Yes, Robin absolutely loves them

 

[htr]

But seriously:
"White smoke during start up can be due to the following causes:
Burnt glow plugs
Incorrect Ignition timing
Compression problems - If a cylinder has significantly lower compression pressure than others. Minimum compression pressure should be 275 psi at cranking speed.
Blown Head Gasket
Poorly sealed piston rings
Leaky valves
Cracked Head
Cracked Block
Injector is stuck or not working
Clogged air filter
Defective waste gate such as an actuator, vacuum line etc.
Poor fuel quality
Low coolant temperature
The major cause of white smoke is inadequate heat. The low temperature at which fuel burns within the engine causes white smoke emissions and can be corrected easily by installing a low cost heating system. "

Is it a high 'milage' motor?
Pre-heat working as it should [glow-plugs]?

 

[hd3]

I read that it may well be glow plug(s), wiring connection or even relay switch.

another factor be the reliability of the coolant temp. sensor
that's what the ecu gets its info from .. as to how-long to heat the glow-plugs
if the coolant sensor is screwed it refers to the air-intake temp. sensor ( i think )

anyhow .. could be that the coolant temp. sensor be fine at reading 80c+ running temp. .. but maybe dodgy at the lower end .. i.e. 0c or below .. ( the temp sensors are electrical thermal resistors )
if so the heaters (glow plugs) won't get the electricity for long enough ..

in anycase .. the glow-plugs are supposed to continue 'heating' for a short time
after the glow-plug dash symbol goes out .. ( post ignition heating phase .. for emissions ) ..

try counting to 4 after the dash-symbol goes out 'n see if it starts any easier ..

~~~~~~~~~

some pics here from a m47r ( td4 ) howzit-works pdf
http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/2364013-post2.html

and .. another heating-time factor be battery condition ..

 

[teddywood1]

so sorrrrrrry I meant supper man Clark kent no, o for get it I was having a senior moment when I said bat man.

 

[teddywood1]

If it's a bmw engine I would be surprised it's glow plugs, more likely leaky injector. A bmw engineer once told me that the glow plugs would never be needed in our climate as the engine was high compression with high pressure injectors and I agree, my td4 will fire even if you don't let the glow plugs heat even on a cold day. How do I know well the missus didn't know you had to wait to start a diesel for the whole year she drove the FL

well my 2006 td4 hse needed them lots of smoke before on start up on cold mornings but none now. do not believe everything anybody says especially some Mechanics

 

[gstuart]

Hi all,
Great site.
Having done a thorough search on this, I'm still unsure, so forgive me.
Cold start, white smoke rough idle for 10 seconds, then all ok.
I've done oil and filter,air and crankcase filter, EGR bypass.
I read that it may well be glow plug(s), wiring connection or even relay switch.
As I don't have the kit to do electrical test , I phoned LR garage for quote to test glow plugs. They stated that the glow plugs are indistructable and it's more likely injector(s).
So, my question is, are injectors likely to play up for 10 seconds when cold.
Car has done 115k
BTW, I also read that this is pretty common, but it's embarrassing as I have to start up when school kids are passing
Many thanks

where abouts in the uk are u


I've got a hawkeye and if ur fairly close to me ur welcome to come round and I can plug it in for u , to see what it comes up with

as I know it can be a pain in trying to find problems and all the dealers want to do is rip people off

 

[Arctic2]

where abouts in the uk are u


I've got a hawkeye and if ur fairly close to me ur welcome to come round and I can plug it in for u , to see what it comes up with

as I know it can be a pain in trying to find problems and all the dealers want to do is rip people off

What would you be looking for on the hawk eye to find out this I have just purchased one and am in the process of leaning how to use it please

 

[gstuart]

What would you be looking for on the hawk eye to find out this I have just purchased one and am in the process of leaning how to use it please

when I got mine back it had the version 7 which I found some new menus

it had one that said , engine roughness and another one which i will remember in a minute, lol

it was measured in mm3 which i believe shows the condition of the injectors and if there leaking or not

engine roughness shows what each cylinder is running at my the rpm

have been doing some research into this and believe this is what the test signifies

however i may be barking up the wrong tree , as when I done the test it showed a big fluctuation in number 2 and 4 , used some millers and after a while of running it through a few tanks they settlesd down


it used to smoke on start up and after giving a good run through i noticed crap was coming out whilst going down the road, then cleared , which i would then assume it was all the crap coming out

after this i retested via the haweye and the rpm on each cylinder were considerably better

just hope this makes sense and of course stand corrected if my theory is incorrect

http://www.iatn.net/forums/12/64765/duramax-lb7-white-smoke-diagnostics

 

[clarkkent]

gstuart,
Very kind offer, I'm in worcester area.

You guys are top banana and all your advice is very much apprecited.
I can't see or smell any deisel leaks.
The engine runs lovely after 10 seconds, temp gauge where it should be, mpg normal, pulls well.
I will follow all the advice and work my way through each of the suggestions ( cheapest and easiest first), starting with glow plugs/wiring test.
First off, find a mechanic, not a fitter.
Cheers guys

 

[trax]

gstuart,
Very kind offer, I'm in worcester area.

You guys are top banana and all your advice is very much apprecited.
I can't see or smell any deisel leaks.
The engine runs lovely after 10 seconds, temp gauge where it should be, mpg normal, pulls well.
I will follow all the advice and work my way through each of the suggestions ( cheapest and easiest first), starting with glow plugs/wiring test.
First off, find a mechanic, not a fitter.
Cheers guys

when it's running just keep a close eye on the engine.

slowly look deeper into the engine it watching for anything out of place. not sure what xrays do to the alternator though, so be careful around that.

 

[neilc]

Hi guys
Been following this as I put a post on about my glow plugs. If the coolant temp sensor is ok at the higher temp range but not at the lower would this cause the glow plug warning light not to come on at all ?

 

[landyhaze]

Hi Guys,
I too have this "lumpy and smokey cold-start for 10 seconds" symptom on my MY2004 TD4. I replaced the crank breather filter yesterday, and there was no sign of any diesel around the injectors, all looked good. I must admit I have not been waiting for the glow plug symbol to go out before starting the engine, as it only comes on for one or two seconds. Tomorrow I have an early start, and I will check the smoke after waiting a few seconds. I had sort of assumed that since my thermostat is lazy it was over fueling as if the engine was constantly on warm-up phase, and that was causing the poor cold start, but thinking about it the warm start is just fine, and again the engine pulls really well with no smoke under max acceleration.
-Hazel