TD5 Not starting after new injector seals/O rings. Help!

sounds silly but you did connect injector harness back on didnt you

johnlad said:

sounds silly but you did connect injector harness back on didnt you

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I changed the harness very recently and its run with the new harness prior to this problem. Yesterday I put the old harness back on but didn't make any difference and the new one is back on now. All connected up as it should be, checked the connectors on the ECU and they are all dry and connected. I've had the rocker cover off so many times in the last 3 days I've lost count. Every connector I can see has been checked, it ran fine (apart from one leaking injector seal) up to the point I did the work. I'm totally baffled

My concern now is that I could burn the starter out . What a way to start the new year.

Getting somewhere now (I hope). In desperation called out the RAC, the guy had it running on easystart (yes, I know........) and came to the conclusion the fuel pump had packed up. I'd already checked the filter which was full up and although there was an inkling it could possibly be the fuel pump, I discounted it as I'd heard it running prior to checking the filter. So, one fuel pump ordered on express delivery and should be here Wednesday/Thursday.

Update: New fuel pump fitted (runs fine), battery charged, fuel system purged. Result? naff all, the bar steward still refuses to fire

Nigel-S said:

Update: New fuel pump fitted (runs fine), battery charged, fuel system purged. Result? naff all, the bar steward still refuses to fire

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PURGED ...

did you do the INJECTOR purge, which is a separate exercise to fuel gallery purge?

CharlesY

CharlesY said:

PURGED ...

did you do the INJECTOR purge, which is a separate exercise to fuel gallery purge?

CharlesY

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Followed the proceedure given by your good self earlier in this post, however the battery gave up before I could turn it over as quickly as I would have liked. Battery now on charge so will give it a go later tonight or tomorrow morning. Can certainly hear the new pump whirring away so no problem there. Hopefully a good charge of the battery will help . Still stinks of easy start after the RAC man pumped far too much into it (in my opinion), he did say they that TD5's were absolute pigs to start once there was air in the system.

Nigel-S said:

Followed the proceedure given by your good self earlier in this post, however the battery gave up before I could turn it over as quickly as I would have liked. Battery now on charge so will give it a go later tonight or tomorrow morning. Can certainly hear the new pump whirring away so no problem there. Hopefully a good charge of the battery will help . Still stinks of easy start after the RAC man pumped far too much into it (in my opinion), he did say they that TD5's were absolute pigs to start once there was air in the system.

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OK ... my advice is NEVER EVER IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCES use easy start (i.e. di-ethyl ether spray) in any engine you want to keep.



Do BOTH purge schemes tonight or tomorrow.

Have you made sure the red plug at the ECU isn't full of oil?
It is easy to get at. Check this first.
If it is, clean it and the plug. I use an air-jet to do mine

Stage One

KEY ON
wait till pump stops.
deck throttle five times, pump runs.
repeat till you get fed up. 10 to 12 times would not be too many.
KEY OFF


Stage Two

KEY OFF - you MUST start this procedure with the key OFF.
deck throttle and hold it fully down - do not let it up from now on.
KEY ON, wait 10 - 20 seconds for the fuel pump to get going, then TURN THE STARTER in one long burst, up to 30 seconds EVEN AFTER IT BEGINS TO SMOKE OR FIRE UP ... KEEP IT TURNING TILL IT IS RUNNING.
I cannot stress too highly

1. this procedure starts with the Ign Key OFF
2. the throttle pedal must be held hard down all the time, and
3. use the starter long and hard - there is ZERO injection in a TD5 unless the engine is turning over, so the cam can make the injector plungers work.


If this doesn't make it go, there's some other problem.

CharlesY

you need to turn ign on press throttle 5 times quickly engine managemnt light will flash wait about 20 mns till it stops falshing and then do the normal filter primign and it will be sorted.

Just a thought and don't know how true this is but here goes: the injectors have different values and no engine is the same on a td5 and new ones need programming so I ask have you put the injectors back in the same bore that they came from? As if they were in different the ecu will not regonise them and send in wrong/no fuel just a thought but as every1 has said the same thing over and over again and still don't work it may be true???????

brainboy81 said:

you need to turn ign on press throttle 5 times quickly engine managemnt light will flash wait about 20 mns till it stops falshing and then do the normal filter primign and it will be sorted.

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Don't worry about this or the lights on the dash panel. And in any event the suggestion above is not correct. The fuel pump will NOT run for longer than about 2 - 3 minutes at a time, and as for waiting 20 minutes looking at the yellow light ... No, I don't think so.

Just follow my Purge and injector prime procedure, which I called Stage One. Rave is saying the same thing but it is easier and more effective to do the five stomps on the pedal process, because ONE 3 minute session of the pump is probably not going to be enough.

THEN do the Injector Prime trick, which I called Stage Two

CharlesY

Rave says ..
If the vehicle runs out of fuel, or the fuel level is so
low that the fuel system draws air into the fuel rail,
the fuel rail will need to be purged before the engine
will start. This can be achieved by following the
procedure below.
If this procedure is carried out on a vehicle that
has not run out of fuel or otherwise drawn air into
the fuel rail, it can lead to the engine flooding and
failing to start.
Purge
1. Turn the ignition switch off and wait 15
seconds.
2. Turn the ignition switch to position II and wait 3
minutes (this ensures that the fuel system
purges all the air from the fuel rail within the
cylinder head).
3. Fully depress the throttle pedal.
4. Keeping the throttle pedal fully depressed,
crank the engine.
5. As soon as engine speed exceeds 600 rev/min,
release the throttle pedal and the ignition
switch.The engine must not be cranked
continuously for more than 30 seconds at
any one time.
6. If the engine fails to start, repeat the above
procedure.

sible88 said:

Just a thought and don't know how true this is but here goes: the injectors have different values and no engine is the same on a td5 and new ones need programming so I ask have you put the injectors back in the same bore that they came from? As if they were in different the ecu will not regonise them and send in wrong/no fuel just a thought but as every1 has said the same thing over and over again and still don't work it may be true???????

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The injectors went back into the same bore from which they came.

Update: ECU checked and found to be clear of oil. Proceedure for starting followed (as per Charlesy instructions. Fuel pump working perfectly, will not start. Will take the rocker cover off and check that the plunger adjustment has not changed (screwed down to bottom out, then out one turn), have done this several times already but no harm checking. Not sure wether to remove injectors, that'll be another £25 for seals/rings

Get new seals for injectors from dearler then you can Mark that one off your list!

sible88 said:

Get new seals for injectors from dearler then you can Mark that one off your list!

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The seals are genuine seals

However I am pleased to say that it's now started and really purrs. As a final resolution to the non starting problem, I removed the ECU and put it on a radiator (indoor rad, not car rad) for 30 minutes. When it was nice and warm I fitted it back in the car and it started more or less straight away. Since I have been doing the work outside in pouring rain everything was soaked including the ECU and red/black plugs.

Thanks to everyone for your input in resolving the problems I had, and a special thank you to CharlesY.

Never again will I buy a Land Rover (I said that 40 years ago ).

Nigel-S said:

The seals are genuine seals

However I am pleased to say that it's now started and really purrs. As a final resolution to the non starting problem, I removed the ECU and put it on a radiator (indoor rad, not car rad) for 30 minutes. When it was nice and warm I fitted it back in the car and it started more or less straight away. Since I have been doing the work outside in pouring rain everything was soaked including the ECU and red/black plugs.

Thanks to everyone for your input in resolving the problems I had, and a special thank you to CharlesY.

Never again will I buy a Land Rover (I said that 40 years ago ).

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Thank god for that !.

Well done mate.

Del.

Nigel-S said:

The seals are genuine seals

However I am pleased to say that it's now started and really purrs. As a final resolution to the non starting problem, I removed the ECU and put it on a radiator (indoor rad, not car rad) for 30 minutes. When it was nice and warm I fitted it back in the car and it started more or less straight away. Since I have been doing the work outside in pouring rain everything was soaked including the ECU and red/black plugs.

Thanks to everyone for your input in resolving the problems I had, and a special thank you to CharlesY.

Never again will I buy a Land Rover (I said that 40 years ago ).

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I think that is wonderful!
Your inspired warm it up plan did the trick !
I bet there was damp or water in the plug, or the red plug was just beginning to get wet or dry corrosion, and a combination of unplugging it and drying it was enough to restore proper connections.

I think if it was mine, I would give the red plug a wee skoosh of switch cleaner - use the BEST type and not one with a warning about plastics.
I use SERVISOL Super 10, from Maplins.

Aren't LandRovers wonderful?

CharlesY

I found this suggestion using the search facility.

It seemed to be just what I was looking for and I followed it to the letter. After an hour of purging it started with little trouble and run for a minute or so without kicking and then stopped. I purged it again for 30 mins this time and again it started with no trouble, didnt kick, sounded smooth..but after a min or so it stopped.

If I want to start the engine again I will need to purge it again. Is this something I need to do again and again and again ...until it runs without stopping?

Your advice most welcome.

CharlesY said:

It is almost certain that there is AIR in the fuel gallery, and if there is ANY air in there, it will not start.

Do NOT attempt to start it until you have done the following.

1. if you have a clean new fuel filter, fit it. Fill it with diesel or kerosene before fitting it. Make sure the smaller central O-ring comes off when you take off the old filter.

2. Now PURGE the fuel system, and this may take some time.

Turn IGN ON, and throughout all this process leave it ON. Do not try to start up. As soon as the IGN is ON you will hear the fuel pump running if you listen. It may be a bit squealy - good, that is AIR circulating and being sent back to the fuel tank.

As soon as the fuel pump stops (and the IGN is still ON) stomp on the throttle pedal FIVE TIMES, and the fuel pump will start running again.

Repeat this process until you hear the fuel pump noise suddenly sound smoother and quieter, and then DO IT AT LEAST THREE TIMES MORE.

3. Turn IGN OFF.
Press throttle to the floor and hold it down - do not let it up! This sets injectors in purge mode. KEEP PEDAL TO FLOOR ALL THE TIME NOW.
Turn IGN ON, and run the starter in ONE LONG BURST UNTIL ENGINE IS RUNNING. The starter is safe to run for THIRTY SECONDS OR MORE.

Report in when it is running.

CharlesY

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I am having the same trouble with a 2002 Discovery Td5 after fitting new injector harness.

after purging it run's but lumpy,A quick rev over 2000rpm it clears but around 1 minute letter you start to hear a loud tapping noise (as in an injector bouncing) and the engine starts to shake and around 30 seconds later it stails and wont start for about 5-6 mnutes and repeats itself over and over again.

We purchased the td5 out a motor auction and i have spoken to the last owner who tells me it has had a reckon head,new fuel pump,new pressure regulator,and apparently one new injector! All work was carried out by a supposedly land rover specialist in nottingham who tbh i wouldn't give a bloody push bike to.

We have fitted a new injector harness but it's still the same. Oil was heavily present at the ecu so we have removed it and cleaned it of electrical cleaner and brake fluid and tried it again but still no joy! Any ideas??

mybigfattd5 said:

I am having the same trouble with a 2002 Discovery Td5 after fitting new injector harness.

after purging it run's but lumpy,A quick rev over 2000rpm it clears but around 1 minute letter you start to hear a loud tapping noise (as in an injector bouncing) and the engine starts to shake and around 30 seconds later it stails and wont start for about 5-6 mnutes and repeats itself over and over again.

We purchased the td5 out a motor auction and i have spoken to the last owner who tells me it has had a reckon head,new fuel pump,new pressure regulator,and apparently one new injector! All work was carried out by a supposedly land rover specialist in nottingham who tbh i wouldn't give a bloody push bike to.

We have fitted a new injector harness but it's still the same. Oil was heavily present at the ecu so we have removed it and cleaned it of electrical cleaner and brake fluid and tried it again but still no joy! Any ideas??

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sounds like injector seals and washers need changing, if you google td5 injector seals there are loads of guides on the net

johnlad said:

sounds like injector seals and washers need changing, if you google td5 injector seals there are loads of guides on the net

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Thank you