sp00k

sp00k

Well-Known Member
Hello,

I know nothing about brakes, which means I won't be touching them for obvious reasons. I have been misreading my brake fluid level due to dirt on the outside of the reservoir. I cracked the cap off and found that it was slightly below the minimum. This was a few days ago. I've topped it off to the maximum and monitored it for the last couple of days. There has been no reduction in level.

Brake performance and application feels normal - it's very easy to lock the front wheels on demand, so I don't think there are any issues with the system. I'm hoping that the fluid level is down to pad wear. Is it possible to assess the front pads without removing the wheel and what sort of thickness would be normal?

If the brakes need doing I'll either take it somewhere or I'll ask someone who knows what they are doing to help me.

Cheers,

Lee.
 
You might be able to see the rear pad with the wheel still on, but think you might struggle.

Unless you're running spoked wheels you'll not see the front pad.

Not sure off the top of my head what the new pad thickness is, but anything less than 3mm remaining would be too little
 
You should be able to see the front pads if you get under the vehicle with a torch. Have a look in the holes ontop of the caliper.

Wear doesn't really mean you'll use a lot more fluid, there might be a leak somewhere but you'll see evidence of that.

Fluid starts to degrade after a couple of years too, especially if it gets hot. Again not the cause of a low level, but can affect brake performance.
 
brakes aren't complicated. if you can muck about with the engine you can do the brakes.

fluid is hygroscopic (absorbs water) which is why you should change it every now and again.

re topping it up you can use and mix the dots (3,4,5.1) apart from dot 5 as it's silicone based.
 
trax said:
re topping it up you can use and mix the dots (3,4,5.1) apart from dot 5 as it's silicone based.
Click to expand...
Never seen this stated so clearly and never worked it out - nice one!

Front wheels locking up easily might mean the drums on the back are not working well, eg fluid leaking onto shoes from slave cylinders.
 
timc1967 said:
Never seen this stated so clearly and never worked it out - nice one!

Front wheels locking up easily might mean the drums on the back are not working well, eg fluid leaking onto shoes from slave cylinders.
Click to expand...

that won't do! i shall now muddle it up more :D

the higher the dot number, the higher the boiling point.

brakes generate heat when applied, if the fluid boils then it turns to vapour and is the same as having air in the lines. it goes spongy.

so if your beasts brakes generate a lot of heat or you pretend you are colin mcrae, you should go for a higher dot. standard defender is dot4, so go for that or higher (whatever is cheapest).

mixing dot3 with dot 4 will decrease the boiling point as dot3 is weaker.

water also decreases the boiling point, and brake fluid (not dot5) absorbs water even from the air. this is one of the reasons why you should change it every now and again.

hope that confused you :D
 
timc1967 said:
Front wheels locking up easily might mean the drums on the back are not working well, eg fluid leaking onto shoes from slave cylinders.
Click to expand...

I locked the front wheels this morning on an emergency stop from about 15mph when a car failed to give way on a roundabout and pulled out directly in front of me :mad: At least I did not hit them but that's about the third time that's happened to me in the beast. I am an advanced driver, so I know how to drive and anticipate hazards. Short of driving everywhere at walking speed, I don't think there is much I can do. People just seem to increasingly take chances these days and expect you to take avoiding action.

Think I need a snowplough attachment for the front :)

I think the brakes are working fine, the occasions when I've locked up have both been wet and both on downhill stretches. I'm also running offroad tyres. The last time it happened I (just) had time to reduce braking and steer around the hazard (my fault on that occasion, I was behind a car with it's rear foglights on that practically did an emergency stop to get over a speed hump). This time I did not and had no time to try cadence braking. My 110 has an HD chassis and is hardtop, so there will not be much weight at the back, all around the front. Brakes also feel fine with the trailer.

Strangely enough, I had almost exactly the same issue a few days ago in my 'proper' car. Where I had the right of way, a car observed me, did not give way, no need to as had time to get out in front of me and be on his way. He was moving slower than I expected, but he would have still cleared me, so I eased off just in case. The car behind him, stopped to give way momentarily, then set off again anyway, with absolutely no chance of clearing - he then blocked both lanes of the roundabout side on, so that I had no choice but to perform an emergency stop. He then got on his horn and started gesticulating to the guy in front of him for not going fast enough! You could not make this stuff up. If I had been in the beast, I would have had absolutely no chance of stopping, I would have been straight through the side of him.
 
timc1967 said:
Front wheels locking up easily might mean the drums on the back are not working well, eg fluid leaking onto shoes from slave cylinders.
Click to expand...

Well, you might be onto something there. Had a good look around with a torch. Can't work out if the pads are worn or not, but I can see that some of the many layers of underseal were flaking on the inside of the offside rear wheel. No signs of damp though, but I suppose a small leak over time will contaminate the shoes quickly but take much longer to show.

I jacked up the rear one side at a time. The drivers side, I could feel resistance to braking straight away and before half way down on the pedal, I could not turn the wheel. The offside, would not lock even with the pedal to the floor.
 
Not played with a drum brake on a fender but most drums have an adjuster on the back of the backplate to take up the slack in the setup. Could be that the adjuster needs adjusting (normally wind it in until the drum start dragging the undo slightly until drum turns freely). That said if you are getting no braking at all you could have a seized cylinder or something has come adrift inside the hub or you have managed to crimp the brake pipe to that wheel somehow?
 
Defender brakes are dead easy to work on. Don't worry about them at all. Just read the manual, do a few online checks and get to work. There really is nothing to them.
 
I'm going to have a go. If you never hear from me again, assume I failed! :)

Thanks for the offer of help OSD.
 
sp00k said:
Well, you might be onto something there. Had a good look around with a torch. Can't work out if the pads are worn or not, but I can see that some of the many layers of underseal were flaking on the inside of the offside rear wheel. No signs of damp though, but I suppose a small leak over time will contaminate the shoes quickly but take much longer to show.

I jacked up the rear one side at a time. The drivers side, I could feel resistance to braking straight away and before half way down on the pedal, I could not turn the wheel. The offside, would not lock even with the pedal to the floor.
Click to expand...

this would indicate either bad adjustment or contamination ,

on all of mine I have fitted disc brake axles so theres no hasstle like this , you can do the axle change in the time you would do two brake services
 
r.
Oldseadog said:
If you die can I have what's left of your Landy? :D:D:D
Click to expand...

Yeah no problem, I think I'm the weak point in the defender, so I'm sure there would be plenty left :)

I had a spare hour to have a look yesterday. The adjustments are nice and simple as you guys said. Most of my time was spent jacking up the axle safely as I've only got a bottle jack.

The offside wheel (which had no braking at all) was very easy to adjust. The drivers side one proved much more tricky and I felt that no matter what I did, I could hear the shoes catching and feel a lot more resistance than the other side. In fact, the adjusters seemed to have no effect.

I think it would be prudent to dismantle and examine the next time we get a bout of dry weather.

At least both wheels now have some braking effect, which has got to be an improvement.

I thought the brakes were self adjusting, so why do they need this manual adjustment?
 
Forget about self-adjusters on a Landy!

If you are taking the drums off, make sure that the return springs are the right way round, and in the correct holes!

On your rear drums you have four snail cams (one for each shoe) which you turn until your drum stops, then back it off two clicks.

If the cams are badly worn or don't have any notches on them, you can get a snail cam replacement kit for aabout a tenner.

On the front you have discs which don't need any adjustment.
 
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