steve2286w
Well-Known Member
Or back off adjuster fully check pushrod in cup and slider not broke
ThomasLRNL
Member
i pulled the engine and con rod ends look a little worn; but thats fine. nothing insanely crazy. didnt pull mains yet, but i feel like that doesnt have priority rn.If it was tappet/cam related it wouldn't go away with revs?
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ThomasLRNL
Member
i pulled them all when i was refitting the engine. they didnt look too bad but i will pull them again
ThomasLRNL
Member
update: the little pusher/insert slotted bit in the dizzy slot seems to make a really recognizable sound…
ThomasLRNL
Member
update: put the dizzy back in and took the timing chain off aswell as the rocker arm assembly. put a drill on the bolt of the timing wheel and “dampened” the pushrods with my arm. after getting up to a certain rpm; i hear the knock. i dont hear it down in low rpms. but i do when i revv the drill up high.
no clue what it is as of now; didnt have the time to ingestigate further since it was midnight at that point
no clue what it is as of now; didnt have the time to ingestigate further since it was midnight at that point
Did you check for play?
Wildefalcon
Well-Known Member
Camshaft related, so.
Possibilities are:
Oil pump
Skew gear
Dizzy
Fuel pump
Rollers
Followers
Push rods
I'd start with the rollers, can be seen from the engine side by taking the side plates off.
Possibilities are:
Oil pump
Skew gear
Dizzy
Fuel pump
Rollers
Followers
Push rods
I'd start with the rollers, can be seen from the engine side by taking the side plates off.
ThomasLRNL
Member
there is a little bit of side to side play in the conrod on the crank. but nothing in the Z direction (up and down). theyre just solid in there and i cant get them to tick or wiggle.
ThomasLRNL
Member
Sorry i shouldve mentioned, i took out the fuel pump!
So that leaves us with:
Oil pump
Skew gear
Dizzy
Rollers
Followers
Push rods.
ill check on the rollers. i have the engine pulled so i can easily see now. Specific signs i should look for? Or the "usual" wear patterns will also show on the rollers
steve2286w
Well-Known Member
That’s a well thought out test, and you found the knock with dizzy in and lift pump , so keep going and remove ancillaries one at a time , ( lift pump lever on wrong side of cam poss) until sound stops, as you’re in so deep now not far from head removal then you can remove and inspect rollers and sliders properly
ThomasLRNL
Member
lift pump is out! i havent checked it with the drill with it in. That might be worth a shot to rule out that wasnt in the wrong way to begin with.
I think head removal is imminent, i need to redo all the gaskets anyways at this point.
Im glad I can move fast and pulled everything out quickly. I was so exited to have it run!
Might also be worth to add, engine didnt run awfull or anything. Quite the contrary. I found it to spring up quite nicely and fire up amazing. There sometimes was a bit of a "sag" in the rpms. almost like 1 cil required a bit more effort. but i guess thats fine and has more to do with fueling and ignition timing and the whole running in of the engine to get rid off.
steve2286w
Well-Known Member
Oops thought it was oil pump, but try with oil pump skew gear and dizzy out first,
On the rollers you can get flat spots but not as Loud as your knock more a tap
But knock is twice as fast as a single valve operating unless it’s banging top and bottom
On the rollers you can get flat spots but not as Loud as your knock more a tap
But knock is twice as fast as a single valve operating unless it’s banging top and bottom
Wildefalcon
Well-Known Member
It's a puzzle for sure. Interesting! Thank you so much for letting us know as you go along
ThomasLRNL
Member
Will do. More tomorrow since I dont think I will have the time of day to fix it today.
well isnt that true! Biggest ive had in a while xD No problems for the updates, I spent ages looking for similar knock questionaires and all found that theyre poorly structured and not relevant anymore. If i document this a bit better others also have quite a hands on way of doing their own engines.
ThomasLRNL
Member
All, i couldnt stand that i didnt inspect the tappets. so i raced to the garage and pulled the head. before doing this i took off the oil pump and tested the drill method again. no considerable difference. as well as the oul skew gear.
please see results of taking out the tappets below. im inexperienced when it comes to this. are they worn? the push wheels seem fine to be honest. i can see that some of the “coating” on the tappets is a bit flaked off/cracked. and sometimes the coating is even smeared a bit on the oil passageways on the pointy ends. but i dont see an overly worn, completely brassed out tappet. that only occurs on one tappet. which is worn a bit to brass level.
im not experienced with this, please advice!
please see results of taking out the tappets below. im inexperienced when it comes to this. are they worn? the push wheels seem fine to be honest. i can see that some of the “coating” on the tappets is a bit flaked off/cracked. and sometimes the coating is even smeared a bit on the oil passageways on the pointy ends. but i dont see an overly worn, completely brassed out tappet. that only occurs on one tappet. which is worn a bit to brass level.
im not experienced with this, please advice!
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ThomasLRNL
Member
All, another slight update on my “drill testing” method. i want to illustrate how i do this, and how i have now isolated what i think is a root cause of the problem.
1. insert tapped guide, push wheel and tapped in designated hole. fit grub screw.
2. insert push rod.
3. put drill on nut of camshaft wheel on the front side of the engine block. (chain must be removed otherwise the torque WILL snap the bolt clean off!)
4. push down on the tappet much like the rocker shaft arm assembly would.
what i have found doing this:
while applying firm pressure on the push rod; there is no tick. however there is a point when you (any person really) cannot sustain the amount of downward thrust needed to keep the whole pushrod assembly tight when you accelerate the drill. this is the point where the push wheel will hit the underside of the tappet guide. this generates that awfull tick.
the whole camshaft assembly doesnt generate a tick when spun without any tappets or follower wheels installed.
this only leaves me with 3 conclusions:
1. one (judging from the frequency of the tick) pushrod/rocker arm combination was not tight enough.
2. one (judging from the frequency of the tick) pushrod -> tapped ->follower wheel -> camshaft assembly was worn so badly the rocker arm clearance was too loose for that specific worn pair.
3. one (judging from the frequency of the tick) rocker arm is worn to smithereens giving you a too loose setting due to its pointyness.
please advice if anyone else can sort this out. i can provide extensive video tomorrow if needed!
getting closer you all!!
1. insert tapped guide, push wheel and tapped in designated hole. fit grub screw.
2. insert push rod.
3. put drill on nut of camshaft wheel on the front side of the engine block. (chain must be removed otherwise the torque WILL snap the bolt clean off!)
4. push down on the tappet much like the rocker shaft arm assembly would.
what i have found doing this:
while applying firm pressure on the push rod; there is no tick. however there is a point when you (any person really) cannot sustain the amount of downward thrust needed to keep the whole pushrod assembly tight when you accelerate the drill. this is the point where the push wheel will hit the underside of the tappet guide. this generates that awfull tick.
the whole camshaft assembly doesnt generate a tick when spun without any tappets or follower wheels installed.
this only leaves me with 3 conclusions:
1. one (judging from the frequency of the tick) pushrod/rocker arm combination was not tight enough.
2. one (judging from the frequency of the tick) pushrod -> tapped ->follower wheel -> camshaft assembly was worn so badly the rocker arm clearance was too loose for that specific worn pair.
3. one (judging from the frequency of the tick) rocker arm is worn to smithereens giving you a too loose setting due to its pointyness.
please advice if anyone else can sort this out. i can provide extensive video tomorrow if needed!
getting closer you all!!
steve2286w
Well-Known Member
once you get started there's no stopping you! the rollers look good from what i can see , should all be highly polished with no flat spots, those tappet slides should be clean brass all over not covered in black deposits, did they move ok in the slots
both roller and tappet need to be set one way in engine, i kept mine in matched pairs looks like you doing same.
i would turn the cam so you can see each peak of the cam to see if flat spots on each of them, are the cup seats ok where the push rod sits, even these on mine were such a good fit you could lift the tappet with pushrod as if it was lapped in.
i would clean out any oil passageways you can see on tappet with wire or correct drill bit by hand
both roller and tappet need to be set one way in engine, i kept mine in matched pairs looks like you doing same.
i would turn the cam so you can see each peak of the cam to see if flat spots on each of them, are the cup seats ok where the push rod sits, even these on mine were such a good fit you could lift the tappet with pushrod as if it was lapped in.
i would clean out any oil passageways you can see on tappet with wire or correct drill bit by hand
ThomasLRNL
Member
thanks for the extensive reply. i could not lift the tappets with the pushrod. none stuck. though; i havent properly tried either. Some tappets did lift the roller alongside with them.
about the tappets themselves. there appears to be some layer of predeposited friction material on the tappets themselves. (much like how brake shoes are lined with the actual brake “stuff”).
HOWEVER. might this just be nasty caked on stuff which has ran itsself into these tappets…? it doesnt flake off easy, but then again i havent really pried at it since it looked to be there on purpose. anyone can confirm or deny this weird “coating” stuff? might even be aftermarket tappets. no clue!
will post more cam pics tomorrow. didnt really look at the pointy ends of them. ill keep you all posted…
steve2286w
Well-Known Member
this is the worn rocker i replaced with new on mine but didn't make any real noise, maybe time to check the valve springs make sure they not broke and sit at correct height as in manual.
guess youre quite sure you have adjusted each rocker to 10thou clearance using rule of nine.
anf youve not had carb off and stuffed hole with rag (going back to my earlier problem)
your 3 conclusions are all similar and seem to solved by correct setting of valve gaps ?
guess youre quite sure you have adjusted each rocker to 10thou clearance using rule of nine.
anf youve not had carb off and stuffed hole with rag (going back to my earlier problem)
your 3 conclusions are all similar and seem to solved by correct setting of valve gaps ?
