gstuart

gstuart

D3 Grandad
Full Member
hiya

we got all the brake lines in and when we bled them one popped out and the flare snapped off,

it was on the rear drum brake to the flex hose,

am really worried now why it popped out and bascially the flare snapped off and the pipe came out of the hose followed by the brake fluid

could we have over tightened it please,

it happended when i started the car up, 3 x lights came up the abs, tc and wouldnt go out

i did unplug a sensor, plugged it back in but the lights are still up, would the hawkeye clear the fault or is there another problem please

just cant understand why the pipe popped out and the 3 x lights wont go out

managed to get both rear lines in one piece from the abs unit to the rear flex hoses, then new pipes ontonthe drums

need any advice help please

thks so much guys

gary
 
bought the copper and made the lines up ourselves

only thing i can think of is over tightened them ?????
 
you can over tighten them how ever when you start the engine up you give the system more pressure with the brake servo but that should be when you press the pedal
 
you say the flare has snapped off? so what has popped out? I assume the threaded pipe end is still screwed in place and the copper pipe has popped out of the rear of this? If so it is a problem with the flaring technique, you have done something to weaken the brake pipe at the flare point - If this has happened on one of them........best check the others very carefully indeed.
 
ive ordered two new steel rear pipes , they cost me 40 quid but just ordered them for peace of mind

bled the brakes out first with the engine off, then started the engine , servo kicks in as u say then the pipe just burst out of the flexible hose, thk god it done it on the drive way

hope once fitted the 3 warning lights will go out as well, or if i will have to clear it with the hawkeye or maybe because i unplugged one if the abs sensors, forgot, started the engine then plugged the abs wire in after , dooohhhh so dont know if ive caused an issue

nothing like opening a can of worms

gary
 
never seen a flare snap off if made correctly ,does hole have concave or convex bottom ,usually concave but some arent
 
thks guys

it was the concave end, really strange , as we took out the old lines made sure the new flares where the same as the old ones.

will indeed check the rest, can u over tighten them as well

also now concerned about the tc abs and hill descent light up,

but i suppose that is because i unplugged one and started the engine and forgot i had unplugged one of the abs sensors then my son plugged it back in with the engine running so i would assume the ecu will register a fault

once the new pipes come will get James to fit them and start again

there the short pipes that go on the drum but they are steel,

then hopefully the lights may go out or is there a way of clearing them, would disconnecting the battery work plse

or could there still be air in the system or just because i unplugged one abs wire

thks so much again, getting there and will be nice to get it back on the rd so can out of the house after nearly 3 weeks

really appreciate the help and learnt allt and of course only get one chance with brakes

so have only ended up with 4 x flares in total , and no joins , james did have a pig of a job getting it from the passenger side though

just hope the 3 x lights go out or maybe its where brake fluid spilled over the abs plug ???

thsk again

gary
 
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When I did the short pipes to the wheel cylinders earlier this year I found that the end of the pipe that goes into the hose is a double flare. To do this, flare the end using the button (Which rolls the end over to create a dome shape)...leaving the pipe clamped, remove the button then screw the cone shaped end into the end of the flare you have just made which will then create an indentation and fold the flare into itself thus creating a double thickness dished flare. The pipe nut end will sit on the flare and apply pressure to the double thickness more so than the neck of the flare.

Have a practice with a spare piece of tube. I find a pipe protrusion of 3 to 3.5mm when clamped gives the best results with the kit I have. I use a piece of aluminium 3.5mm thick which I use as a gauge to set the height before I finally clamp it.
 
thks so much guys

we done the double flare but it was the normal concave end that went, as i see what i mean concave one end and double on the other end

just worries about the other now, but surely when i replace the back pipes with the new steel ones at the back, start the engine then put my foot on the brake as hard as i can that should be a good test and none of the brake lines should pop out of there flares

there was one thing though, i erm well erm left the hand brake on when i bled the brakes but would that cause the pipe to pop out of its fitting

my head hasnt really been straight lately and just didnt know if it would make any difference or not please

thks about the lights and will of course give that a go

also notice the bloody hand brake cable has locked the drums up, have all new brake shoes on, so was thinking of disconnecting the handbrake cable inside the car propping them up and pouring some oil down the cable

on another thing how hard is it to replace the brake cables please, they dont look to bad but would i have to take the brake shoes off or could i do it whilst leaving the shoes alone but just taking the drum off etc

thks so much as i really do apologise for being a pain in the butt

plus this is the flaring tool in bought

gary
 

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sounds like a little practice required, always compare old to new and make sure it is well centred.

is the pipe good quality and from reliable source?

Only other thing I can think is flares too thin and burst under pressure
 
bought the brake pipe rolls and fittings from the motor factors so hopefully they are of decent quality

but like u guys have said think its a practice issue as they were indeed the first ones we flared

hopefully once the steel ones are in on the drums that will at least eliminate 4 x connections and only leave the other 4 x flares we done ourselves

think it may be a good idea to undo all the fittings again and see how they are and make sure theres no splitting etc on the flares and havent made them so they can pop out again

dont fancy that happening down the motorway

we did put coppaslip on the threads and new bleed nipples

also got new discs and pads on to, they were really easy to do, as i bought an impact screwdriver before hand to get the disc screws off.

getting there one step at a time

next thing once they are done is to monitor the heater matrix, then get the wiring loom in for the spots ans fogs, then strip out interior to fit rear parcel shelf fixings , run cb wire

still keeps me occupied but these brake lines are just concerning me so think i will indeed undo them and inspect them .a

plus was pleased it started first time after 3 weeks sitting on the drive

thks guys

gary
 
hi

just an idea, ive got one of these easy bleed kits that u put onto ur spare tyre

it says not to use it above 20 psi, but had a thought ,

once ive replaced the faulty brake pipes do u think if i deflate my spare to around 15 psi then hook it up and leave it for around 20 mins or so to pressure test do u think this would be a 100 percent test for the brake lines etc

was just wondering of what pressure the brake lines may operate at,

or have got t some pressure gauges from when i done central heating then take out a bleed nipple then start the engine and put my foot on the brake whilst having rigged up a pressure gauge on the bleed nipple to see what insertation of pressure is excerted ????

just trying to think of ways to ensure all the flares etc are 100 percent

thks

gary
 
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just pull on pipes so you know they are secure and press pedal hard several times with engine running , its not a usual issue must be poor pipe or flare
 
thks, yeh i know worry too much, but just never seen that before will be in the back of my mind

when i was a heating engineer useto pressure test pioework all the time and have digital pressure gauges etc ,

so think firstly i will undo all the fittings that weve flared and inspect, put them back on , start the engine and see what happens

but should be able to press on the brake as hard as i can due to when u need abs etc

i might even make up a section of pipe make a flare and pressurise it with a blank on the end, as a sample piece off the car and try and mess around with the flaring tool to see if the pipe is anygood

didnt buy it off ebay for this reason, but once ive stamped on the brake with the engine running a few times could just reinspect the lines again

thks again

gary
 
gstuart said:
thks so much guys

we done the double flare but it was the normal concave end that went, as i see what i mean concave one end and double on the other end

just worries about the other now, but surely when i replace the back pipes with the new steel ones at the back, start the engine then put my foot on the brake as hard as i can that should be a good test and none of the brake lines should pop out of there flares
If the flare has been done correctly and the nut not overtightened, the pipe should not break irregardless of whether the ABS pump is running or not. Brakes are usually bled without the pump or engine running anyway.
3/16" Copper brake pipe has a maximum working pressure of around 2800psi and is well capable of handling the pressure generated in the system

there was one thing though, i erm well erm left the hand brake on when i bled the brakes but would that cause the pipe to pop out of its fitting
No way that would affect it.

my head hasnt really been straight lately and just didnt know if it would make any difference or not please

thks about the lights and will of course give that a go

also notice the bloody hand brake cable has locked the drums up, have all new brake shoes on, so was thinking of disconnecting the handbrake cable inside the car propping them up and pouring some oil down the cable
Did you check that the pivot on the handbrake lever fitted to the brake shoes was free ? They tend to be a bit on the tight side and the pivot pin needs to have a tap with a hammer to free it then put a bit of copper grease on the joint.

on another thing how hard is it to replace the brake cables please, they dont look to bad but would i have to take the brake shoes off or could i do it whilst leaving the shoes alone but just taking the drum off etc
Shouldn't be too bad but you will probably have to remove the shoe retaining pins/clips so you can force the bottom of the shoes apart enough to disconnect the handbrake actuating lever.
If the cables are indeed seized, personally, I would replace them...especially if you have put all this work into refurbishing the system. Plus, they will soon seize again.

thks so much as i really do apologise for being a pain in the butt

plus this is the flaring tool in bought
The one I have used for years is the simple kit with a two part pipe clamp and a "U" type yoke with a screw in it to apply the pressure

gary
Click to expand...

Good Luck:)
 
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thks so much guys for all the great info and help with this,

the brake pipes should come today, tues so will wait to my son james gets in from work to fit them for me

the lights came up straight away when i started the car and would fo out, but the pipes on the abs unit have been out and there was brake fluid still in the master cylinder and noticed today it had leaked out of the abs unit and possibly over the abs plug,

going to disconnect the plug on the abs unit and spray some contact cleaner on it and dry it all off with some paper towels so if i do that until james gets in hopefully we will get somewhere

then fingers crossed and bleed the brakes again , will stamp on the brakes and hold it for about 30 secs whilst on the drive then recheck all the joints etc

but james and i both agreed we are going to take all the joins apart before filling up the system again.

then will if ok, drive it up the road and see if the lights go off, hopefully its just where brake fluid has got into a mulitplig somewhere causing the fault .

just hope i can get back on the road and go through it step by step and see what happens

thks about the handbrake cables and after everything is sorted agree and going to order some new hand brake cables, as ive now got new discs and pads, had new shoes last year, will then have new rear brake lines and hoses so might as well finish it all off

really do appreciate the help and will of course update u guys so in the future this i fo may help someone else

has been a challange but been a very good learning curve

will then put the hawkeye on to check any dtcs and clear if needed and monitor

gary
 
agree---- double check all your new joints most prob overtightened the one that failed,

with the handbrake cable buy a new one, i tried re-oiling mine ,but 6 months later it siezed the parking brake on , the inner cable is nylon coated,it had worn through and become rusty inside but 6 months later it siezed . they are only about £20 a pair off ebay
 
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