0.2 volts is everything since 12.8 is fully charged and 12.2 is flat, a 0.6 volt range from full to empty. I make battery condition indicators for marine applications, the battery data I have says 12.8 not 12.6 for a fully charged battery after resting off charge for 30 minutes. These are normal Lead Acid Calcium batteries as fitted to most cars these days.

Sorry then we will have to agree to disagree. We have been through this before. Normal charging rate on a car just after starting is around 13.8 to 14.2. 14.4 is gassing voltage for a lead acid battery, so you would not want it much above that for any length of time. Or you just boil the electrolite off. Charging rate for lead acid electrolite batteries just after start, should be 13.8 to around 14.2 volts dropping to around 13.5 as the battery is charged. Charging voltage at 2000 rpm with headlamps on should be 13.8 to 14.2 volts max.
 
Sorry then we will have to agree to disagree. We have been through this before. Normal charging rate on a car just after starting is around 13.8 to 14.2. 14.4 is gassing voltage for a lead acid battery, so you would not want it much above that for any length of time. Or you just boil the electrolite off. Charging rate for lead acid electrolite batteries just after start, should be 13.8 to around 14.2 volts dropping to around 13.5 as the battery is charged. Charging voltage at 2000 rpm with headlamps on should be 13.8 to 14.2 volts max.

There are at least three variations of the lead-acid battery in current automotive use (1). In the most common configuration, the car battery has six cells, each producing about 2.1 volts. Thus the total battery output voltage is about 12.6 volts.
It is the "about" in the previous two sentences that leads to trouble when a charging system is not matched to the type of battery installed.
The three major contributors to battery chemistry are lead, lead dioxide, and sulfuric acid. Unfortunately pure lead is too soft to withstand the physical abuse of mobile applications, so about 6% antimony was added to strengthen it. This led to another problem -- water usage.
Antimony added to the lead grids acted as a catalyst and made outgassing (loss of hydrogen and oxygen during use) worse, and frequent water replenishing was required. So battery manufacturers looked for another material that could strengthen the lead grids.
Calcium was added to both the positive and negative electrodes in the early 1970s. It reduced outgassing enough to allow manufacturers to claim they building "maintenance-free batteries".
However, lead/calcium batteries are not very resistant to "deep-cycling" (deep discharge followed by a full charge). This made them inappropriate for uses such as to power trolling motors in fishing boats. It also required a higher charging voltage. General Motors studied the charging characteristics of lead/calcium batteries and set the voltage regulators of cars equipped with the "Delco Freedom II" battery at 14.8 volts. Lower settings prevented charging to full capacity. This is too high for lead/antimony batteries and will cause them to lose water rapidly.
The third type of battery frequently used in automotive service uses "hybrid" construction. Its positive grid is strengthened with antimony, and the negative grid with calcium. Water usage is greatly reduced, although regular checking is advisable.
The hybrid battery is more resistant to deep cycling than the lead/calcium, but is still not as good in this respect as the original lead/antimony style. Most cars supplied with hybrid batteries have their voltage regulators set to 14.3 volts, although it is reported that the higher 14.8 volt setting of GM cars does no harm if the water level is checked regularly.
A fourth type, the "gel cell", has appeared in automotive use. Early reports were that its manufacturer recommended charging at 13.8 to 14.1 volts (2), suggesting it used hybrid chemistry. However, it also does not allow the user to add water, so it may indeed be lead/calcium.
Older vehicles with voltage regulators set at about 14.0 volts simply will not fully charge lead/calcium or hybrid batteries. Stories abound of cars with older regulators leaving their owners stranded on cold mornings shortly after a "new, improved, maintenance-free" battery was installed. Even two weeks of sitting in the garage, with no load other than the electric clock and burglar alarm, can discharge a battery if the voltage regulator prevented it from being properly charged.
The challenge is particularly severe in the case of foreign manufacturers. Many firms are so certain, and so proud, of their engineering expertise that they have declined to modernize their specifications to meet present battery specifications. Bosch, for example, still teaches its "factory-trained" service technicians that 13.8 volts is enough. As late as 1992 the Product Support Manager of their Automotive Service Division wrote (3) that "13.6-13.8 VDC may in fact be adequate", and that "a fully charged battery cannot be charged with 14 VDC or higher. Doing so will cause the battery to be overheated and damaged".
Only slightly contradicting him is a statement from Bosch's Customer Relations Representative (4) that "the alternator and voltage regulator should charge between 13.8 and 14.2 volts". This representative also recommended a local Bosch Authorized Service Center, who assured me that "13.7 volts is enough".
Mercedes-Benz (5) offered their usual advice: "we suggest the installation of an original Mercedes-Benz battery".
The National Technical Director of the Mercedes-Benz Club of America (6) was considerably more flexible: "the specified voltage for Mercedes-Benz cars of the mid-1980s is 13.0 to 14.5 volts". But clearly 13.0 volts is not enough, and Bosch says 14.5 "will overheat and damage the battery". In an early 1993 letter (6) he says local MB technicians tell him that alternators usually check out around 14.2 to 14.4 volts, and that they replace regulators that call for less than 14.0 volts - thus contradicting the Bosch Product Support Manager. Are we having fun yet?
bosch.gif
Of course, battery chemistry is also a function of temperature. Modern regulator designs usually charge to higher voltages in cold weather. Bosch has offered this graph in a technical manual (7) covering alternators. Although they do not mention different types of battery construction in this 1982 manual, the graph would appear to display the lower limit of appropriate voltages for hybrid batteries. Too bad their own "factory-trained service technicians" choose to ignore it! By the way, these are stated to be the permissible tolerance ranges of the regulator at an alternator speed of 6000 RPM and a load of 5 Amps.
Personal experience clearly reinforces the dependence of battery performance on a good match between the regulator and the battery chemistry. A 1973 Mercedes whose regulator delivers 14.1 volts keeps its battery well-charged even though the car is driven infrequently and only for short distances. A 1982 model whose regulator provided 13.6 volts would not keep its battery charged - a trickle charger was necessary in cold weather. A 1988 300TE charging at about 13.9 volts has frequent battery problems, while a 1991 560SEC which charges at about 14.1 volts has caused little trouble.
bosch2.gif
In a more recent document (8), Bosch recognizes the effect of calcium on battery chemistry. Elsewhere in this same 1995 handbook they recommend that when external chargers are used, lead/calcium and hybrid batteries be charged at no more than 14.4 volts and the charger have a certain characteristic known as "Type IU". The "IU" characteristic is well-defined in this reference. However, under the more controlled environment of an automotive charging system (the regulator is temperature-compensated), voltages greater than fifteen are sometimes useful. At a modest air-intake temperature of 25º C (77º F), this chart suggests settings between 14.3 and 14.7 volts.
At one time Interstate offered a line of "Extreme Performance" batteries (9). Recently they reappeared on their Web site under the name "Optima Spiralcell", so they may have a cooperative agreement with Optima. Optima has added a little silver to the plates and some sodium sulfate in the electrolyte, and fabricated the lead plates in a spiral. Their main claim to fame is their ability to be charged very quickly, allegedly due to the greater surface area of their plates and the ensuing lower internal resistance (on the order of 3 milliohms). Since there is no way to add water, they may be lead/calcium (+silver), and the higher charging voltages would apply.
Their charging advice supports this theory. They suggest that alternator settings anywhere from 13.8 to 15.0 volts are appropriate, but that they can be rapidly charged at as much as 15.6 volts. Elsewhere in the same document it is suggested that for constant-voltage charging 14.7 to 15.0 VDC is correct (supporting the "lead/calcium" hypothesis).

So I would say that since most cars have maintenace free batteries, i.e. calcium or calcium hybrid 14.2 to 14.8 is correct.
 
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Jesus! You lot talk a lot of numbers!

Take your motor out for a long run. Check theres over 12.6 volts in it when you get back. If there isnt, your alternator isnt charging properly. If there is, disconnect the battery. Come back to it after a few days, reconnect it. If it starts it's the car, if it doesn't, get a new battery.

If its the car, fit a master switch and go and enjoy life.
 
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Thank you wammers for that, as a chemist that is extremely interesting and informative for me.

I think it may be an idea to check the battery; rather than disconnecting it for a few days I might install my Discovery's old battery (not old, 7 months) which I know to be fully functional and charged.

Can someone provide me with a brief guide as to how to change a P38 battery? After the fiasco of it initially running down I hesitate disconnecting it...
 
Thank you wammers for that, as a chemist that is extremely interesting and informative for me.

I think it may be an idea to check the battery; rather than disconnecting it for a few days I might install my Discovery's old battery (not old, 7 months) which I know to be fully functional and charged.

Can someone provide me with a brief guide as to how to change a P38 battery? After the fiasco of it initially running down I hesitate disconnecting it...

Twas not Wammers twas moi:)
I have regularly disconnected the battery on both my P38's with no problem. Remove the negative in a clean quick movement to avoid arcing, same when you put it back.
Good idea to have the EKA code handy just in case though:)
 
Keith if you fit a gel battery to a car whos origonal equipement was wet you have a problem. If you fit a wet battery to a car whos origonal equipement was gel you have a problem. I am aware gel batteries are different and need a higher charge rate. Maybe your P38 was fitted with a gel battery as standard i don't know. But mine was not and to say generally that all P38s should show 14.4 to 14.8 is not correct. Many people are checking the charge rate and getting 13.8 to 14.2, that is correct for a wet lead acid battery. But because of what you say they think something is wrong. There isn't if the car was fitted with wet lead acid as standard which most P38s seem to have been. Maybe the change came when BMW took over and started fitting gel batteries i don't know. Maybe what should be said is if your charge rates is between 13.8 and 14.2 make sure you have a wet battery fitted. If your charging rate is 14.4 to 14.8 make sure you have a gel battery fitted. If you fit a wet battery to a system at that voltage and don't watch it like a hawk you will knacker it up PDQ. I was refering to wet lead acid batteries NOT gel batteries.
 
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Keith if you fit a gel battery to a car whos origonal equipement was wet you have a problem. If you fit a wet battery to a car whos origonal equipement was gel you have a problem. I am aware gel batteries are different and need a higher charge rate. Maybe your P38 was fitted with a gel battery as standard i don't know. But mine was not and to say generally that all P38s should show 14.4 to 14.8 is not correct. Many people are checking the charge rate and getting 13.8 to 14.2, that is correct for a wet lead acid battery. But because of what you say they think something is wrong. There isn't if the car was fitted with wet lead acid as standard which most P38s seem to have been. Maybe the change came when BMW took over and started fitting gel batteries i don't know. Maybe what should be said is if your charge rates is between 13.8 and 14.2 make sure you have a wet battery fitted. If your charging rate is 14.4 to 14.8 make sure you have a gel battery fitted. If you fit a wet battery to a system at that voltage and don't watch it like a hawk you will knacker it up PDQ.

Read it again Tony, it's not about Gel batteries, it's about maintenance free lead calcium/lead calcium hybrid batteries as fitted to about every modern car. They are wet batteries not Gel, Gel batteries require lower charge voltages.
 
Thank you wammers for that, as a chemist that is extremely interesting and informative for me.

I think it may be an idea to check the battery; rather than disconnecting it for a few days I might install my Discovery's old battery (not old, 7 months) which I know to be fully functional and charged.

Can someone provide me with a brief guide as to how to change a P38 battery? After the fiasco of it initially running down I hesitate disconnecting it...


Twas Keith not me. But he is talking Gel batteries i am talking wet lead acid there is a differnt charging rate required. Wet lead acid charge rate won't charge a Gel properly and Gel charging rate will boil a wet lead acid. So make sure you have the correct battery fitted to match your alternator output.
 
Twas Keith not me. But he is talking Gel batteries i am talking wet lead acid there is a differnt charging rate required. Wet lead acid charge rate won't charge a Gel properly and Gel charging rate will boil a wet lead acid. So make sure you have the correct battery fitted to match your alternator output.

You are the wrong way round Tony, I'm talking wet batteries, Gel requires a lower charge voltage:D
 
Twas not Wammers twas moi:)
I have regularly disconnected the battery on both my P38's with no problem. Remove the negative in a clean quick movement to avoid arcing, same when you put it back.
Good idea to have the EKA code handy just in case though:)

Ah sorry, I refer credit to you.
So negative then positive off, positive then negative on?
 
Correct OP
Remember correct procedure; ign. on - loosen negative on battery but leave on - switch off ignition - key in pocket - leave door open - quickly take off negative and it should be trouble free. (Think its 90 sec you have before EKA may be needed)
Remember it this way: Whilst touching + with a tool its safer if it slips making contact to car body i.e. the negative first off - last on as you say.
You could check you have same voltage @ alternator & battery whilst charging to rule out bad cables.

Data & Wammers could maybe start a new P38 Thread with a battery discussion (Fight:emps1::fencing:)
 
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Correct OP
Remember correct procedure; ign. on - loosen negative on battery but leave on - switch off ignition - key in pocket - leave door open - quickly take off negative and it should be trouble free. (Think its 90 sec you have before EKA may be needed)
Remember it this way: Whilst touching + with a tool its safer if it slips making contact to car body i.e. the negative first off - last on as you say.
You could check you have same voltage @ alternator & battery whilst charging to rule out bad cables.

Data & Wammers could maybe start a new P38 Thread with a battery discussion (Fight:emps1::fencing:)


No that will not happen.The voltage regulator fitted to the Magnetti Marelli A133 100 amp alternator fitted to ALL P38 diesels until they were discontinued, and ALL V8 Range rovers upto 1999 is set to regulate voltage between 13.6 and 14.4 volts. 14.4 to 14.8 is impossible to achieve. 1999 on the V8 was fitted with a BoschNC90/150 150 amp unit. I do not know what the regulator on that is set to. Game over.

PS. Voltage regulator fitted to Bosch NC90/150. Part number 1-197-311-549 regulates voltage between 13.6 and 14.5.
 
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No that will not happen.The voltage regulator fitted to the Magnetti Marelli A133 100 amp alternator fitted to ALL P38 diesels until they were discontinued, and ALL V8 Range rovers upto 1999 is set to regulate voltage between 13.6 and 14.4 volts. 14.4 to 14.8 is impossible to achieve. 1999 on the V8 was fitted with a BoschNC90/150 150 amp unit. I do not know what the regulator on that is set to. Game over.

PS. Voltage regulator fitted to Bosch NC90/150. Part number 1-197-311-549 regulates voltage between 13.6 and 14.5.

No regulator regulates over a range of voltages, the Magneti Marreli regulator quoted for LR has a voltage set point of 14.2 volts. The regulator simply controls the maximum output voltage at the set point, a high load will reduce the voltage but this is not primarily the function of the regulator. Some regulators have temperature compensation which will also affect the set point voltage to some extent.
I've done some more digging, a test on my P38 gives a voltage of 14 at the battery, a little more at the alternator, the regulator from the replacement catalogue is given as having a set point of 14.2 volts =/- 0.2v, so it's within spec.
Out of interest I checked my 26 year old MR2 with a Hitachi alternator, the voltage set point is 14.5 and surprisingly it's the same on my wifes ancient Renault 11 with a Ducellier alternator.
Maybe the relatively low set point voltage is the reason the so many P38's have battery problems especially if used for short runs.
The optimum charge voltage for Lead Calcium or Lead Calcium Hybrid maintenance free batteries seems to be 14.5 volts, however Magneti Marrelli, Bosch et al offer regulator set points of 14.1, 14.2, 14.5, 14.7, 14.75, & 14.9 volts, why it has become so complicated I know not. Delco Freedom batteries used to require a set point voltage of 15 volts to obtain a full charge.
Older Lead Antimony batteries that required topping up used 13.8 volt set point regulators.
You say Tony that the Marelli regulator is set to regulate between 13.6 and 14.4 volts, if that is so then 14.2 volts at the battery must be possible which falls nicely into the voltage range I gave. I never said expect 14.8 volts, only that the desired range was between the two points.
In the light of the Marelli spec of a 14.2 volt set pont =/- 0.2v I do need to revise my range to 14v to 14.8 volts as the safe range, although 14v is really the absolute minimum to assure a fully charged battery.:)
 
No regulator regulates over a range of voltages, the Magneti Marreli regulator quoted for LR has a voltage set point of 14.2 volts. The regulator simply controls the maximum output voltage at the set point, a high load will reduce the voltage but this is not primarily the function of the regulator. Some regulators have temperature compensation which will also affect the set point voltage to some extent.
I've done some more digging, a test on my P38 gives a voltage of 14 at the battery, a little more at the alternator, the regulator from the replacement catalogue is given as having a set point of 14.2 volts =/- 0.2v, so it's within spec.
Out of interest I checked my 26 year old MR2 with a Hitachi alternator, the voltage set point is 14.5 and surprisingly it's the same on my wifes ancient Renault 11 with a Ducellier alternator.
Maybe the relatively low set point voltage is the reason the so many P38's have battery problems especially if used for short runs.
The optimum charge voltage for Lead Calcium or Lead Calcium Hybrid maintenance free batteries seems to be 14.5 volts, however Magneti Marrelli, Bosch et al offer regulator set points of 14.1, 14.2, 14.5, 14.7, 14.75, & 14.9 volts, why it has become so complicated I know not. Delco Freedom batteries used to require a set point voltage of 15 volts to obtain a full charge.
Older Lead Antimony batteries that required topping up used 13.8 volt set point regulators.
You say Tony that the Marelli regulator is set to regulate between 13.6 and 14.4 volts, if that is so then 14.2 volts at the battery must be possible which falls nicely into the voltage range I gave. I never said expect 14.8 volts, only that the desired range was between the two points.
In the light of the Marelli spec of a 14.2 volt set pont =/- 0.2v I do need to revise my range to 14v to 14.8 volts as the safe range, although 14v is really the absolute minimum to assure a fully charged battery.:)


That is not the point Keith you will very rarely if ever see 14.2 volts unless the lamps and blowers are on at around 2000 RPM. And you will never see 14.4 to 14.8 as you said earlier. I am talking about what can be expected on a Range rover 13.8 to 14.00 is reasonable just after start up at idle. Dropping slightly after battery is full. By what you said before people will be looking for something in excess of 14.4 and thinking there is something wrong if they don't see that. I am not really interested what the safe range for one of your special batteries is, but more the range of charge you will see on a Range rover. If you know what i mean.
 
Sorry Tony but you are wrong, first these are not special batteries but the batteries fitted to every car and supplied as replacements. Second I never said 14.4 volts I said "between 14.2 and 14.8 volts". I accept that the P38, having checked it, may only have 14 volts at the battery which is probably why they have so many battery problems.
Third the voltage does not drop when the battery is full, the alternator has no means of knowing when the battery is full as you put it, the voltage will, as the load drops, reach the set point voltage and stay there, adding load may reduce the voltage below the set point.

The danger point you make is that 13.8 volts is acceptable, it's not, particularly if the car does a lot of short runs, the battery will never fully charge shortening the battery life.

As I said my MR2 and the wifes Renault both run a 14.5 volt set point, the first battery on the MR2 lasted 18 years, the second has been on there for 8 years and is still fine, the Renault has also only had 2 batteries in it's life, fully charged batteries last longer, compare that to the problems with batteries failing on the P38.

I don't much care whether you believe any of that or not, I know that when the time comes to overhaul my alternator the new regulator will have a set point of at least 14.5 volts as recomended for maintenance free batteries.
 
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Sorry Tony but you are wrong, first these are not special batteries but the batteries fitted to every car and supplied as replacements. Second I never said 14.4 volts I said "between 14.2 and 14.8 volts". I accept that the P38, having checked it, may only have 14 volts at the battery which is probably why they have so many battery problems.
Third the voltage does not drop when the battery is full, the alternator has no means of knowing when the battery is full as you put it, the voltage will, as the load drops, reach the set point voltage and stay there, adding load may reduce the voltage below the set point.

The danger point you make is that 13.8 volts is acceptable, it's not, particularly if the car does a lot of short runs, the battery will never fully charge shortening the battery life.

As I said my MR2 and the wifes Renault both run a 14.5 volt set point, the first battery on the MR2 lasted 18 years, the second has been on there for 8 years and is still fine, the Renault has also only had 2 batteries in it's life, fully charged batteries last longer, compare that to the problems with batteries failing on the P38.

I don't much care whether you believe any of that or not, I know that when the time comes to overhaul my alternator the new regulator will have a set point of at least 14.5 volts as recomended for maintenance free batteries.

Keith with due respect you still miss the point. I am stating what can be expected from a standard fitment P38 alternator. The standard regulator charges between 13.6 and 14.4 volts. That gives a mean charge rate of 14 volts. Mine charges at 13.98 volts just after start up with a brand new battery. You stated the charge rate should be between 14.2 and 14.8 volts, a mean rate of 14.5 volts. That rate is not possible with the standard fitment regulator. So people reading what you said will be going to their cars with a volt meter, thinking something is wrong if they don't see 14 volts plus. That is not correct. Looking at regulator replacement suppliers there are very few vehicles fitted as standard with a regulator with a higher range set point of more than 14.5 volts. As i read it the set point is the voltage it cannot go above not the mean charging voltage.
 
Keith with due respect you still miss the point. I am stating what can be expected from a standard fitment P38 alternator. The standard regulator charges between 13.6 and 14.4 volts. That gives a mean charge rate of 14 volts. Mine charges at 13.98 volts just after start up with a brand new battery. You stated the charge rate should be between 14.2 and 14.8 volts, a mean rate of 14.5 volts. That rate is not possible with the standard fitment regulator. So people reading what you said will be going to their cars with a volt meter, thinking something is wrong if they don't see 14 volts plus. That is not correct. Looking at regulator replacement suppliers there are very few vehicles fitted as standard with a regulator with a higher range set point of more than 14.5 volts. As i read it the set point is the voltage it cannot go above not the mean charging voltage.

In fairness I went to mine with my volt metre and saw that it was below 14 volts with the engine on, but I assumed that as it's a '12 volt battery' it need just be above 12 volts to charge. So 13.98 (which I also get on mine) seemed completely reasonable. Incidentally I've checked on all my engines: and none of them are above 14 volts at idle rpm. Although I don't know what they'd be at 2k.
 
Keith with due respect you still miss the point. I am stating what can be expected from a standard fitment P38 alternator. The standard regulator charges between 13.6 and 14.4 volts. That gives a mean charge rate of 14 volts. Mine charges at 13.98 volts just after start up with a brand new battery. You stated the charge rate should be between 14.2 and 14.8 volts, a mean rate of 14.5 volts. That rate is not possible with the standard fitment regulator. So people reading what you said will be going to their cars with a volt meter, thinking something is wrong if they don't see 14 volts plus. That is not correct. Looking at regulator replacement suppliers there are very few vehicles fitted as standard with a regulator with a higher range set point of more than 14.5 volts. As i read it the set point is the voltage it cannot go above not the mean charging voltage.

Tony, with similar respect you also miss my point.
I agree, having tested it, that for the P38 in the range of voltage I gave the lower figure is on the high side. In future I will quote 14 volts as the lower figure. The figures I gave are the range of the recomended voltage for charging modern batteries.
Alternator regulators do not regulate over a range, they simply limit the maximum output voltage/armature current, load is what pulls the voltage below the regulator set point when the current drawn is sufficient to reach the limit of the armature current suppled by the regulator. As the voltage drops below the set point the regulator increases the armature current to try to maintain the set point until it reaches the max rated current, after that the output voltage will fall as the load increases further, so sorry there is no such thing as a regulator induced mean charging voltage. On an automotive alternator it is quite possible to pull the voltage down to 10 volts in some circumstances and it gets fecking hot before it burns.:eek:

It's donkey's years since I have seen a car with less than 14.2 volts at the battery and as I said the low charging voltage is quite probably the reason that P38's suffer so many battery problems.
 
Tony, with similar respect you also miss my point.
I agree, having tested it, that for the P38 in the range of voltage I gave the lower figure is on the high side. In future I will quote 14 volts as the lower figure. The figures I gave are the range of the recomended voltage for charging modern batteries.
Alternator regulators do not regulate over a range, they simply limit the maximum output voltage/armature current, load is what pulls the voltage below the regulator set point when the current drawn is sufficient to reach the limit of the armature current suppled by the regulator. As the voltage drops below the set point the regulator increases the armature current to try to maintain the set point until it reaches the max rated current, after that the output voltage will fall as the load increases further, so sorry there is no such thing as a regulator induced mean charging voltage. On an automotive alternator it is quite possible to pull the voltage down to 10 volts in some circumstances and it gets fecking hot before it burns.:eek:

It's donkey's years since I have seen a car with less than 14.2 volts at the battery and as I said the low charging voltage is quite probably the reason that P38's suffer so many battery problems.


Keith i am not concerned with what the charging rate for modern batteries is, not all are maintenance free batteries. Not all are calcium batteries. All i am concerded about is what the expected charging rate should be on a P38 Range rover. If you are getting 14.0 volts on a well used unit, that is about as good as it gets. What constitutes a low maintenance or even maintenance free battery across battery makers varies considerably. You have a valid point about the low charging rate on Range Rovers if they are fitted with the calcium battery but unfortunatly that's what we have. Looking through some of the more modern cars, not many have a regulator fitted that is not set between 13.8 and 14.5 volts. So it would seem most cars is the same. Marine applications and recommendations seem to differ greatly are you being confused by those?
 

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